Grandparents Denied Access

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Patty60

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After some time I am posting the recent developments of my case. We were denied access to our two grandchildren after we had a established strong bonds with them from birth. The reason for the denied access was my daughter's hookup with an abusive ex-boyfriend. He used her chidren to manipulate us primarily to control her and for financial gain from us.
We went to court, the judge gave us access. Now my daughter completely broke her ties with this loser, she and the kids are back living with us temporarily. The court ordered family counselling. We requested access in writing and said documnet to be sanctioned by the court.
All you nay-sayers, who previously thought it was a losing propositon, keep in mind the "best interest of the child" does truimph, even for grandparents.
 
Patty60 said:
After some time I am posting the recent developments of my case. We were denied access to our two grandchildren after we had a established strong bonds with them from birth. The reason for the denied access was my daughter's hookup with an abusive ex-boyfriend. He used her chidren to manipulate us primarily to control her and for financial gain from us.
We went to court, the judge gave us access. Now my daughter completely broke her ties with this loser, she and the kids are back living with us temporarily. The court ordered family counselling. We requested access in writing and said documnet to be sanctioned by the court.
All you nay-sayers, who previously thought it was a losing propositon, keep in mind the "best interest of the child" does truimph, even for grandparents.
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What is the court file number? As it is a matter of public record it would be simple for you to produce the evidence that this is the truth. Furthermore, it would be of benefit to others if you provided the posted decision regarding the matter.

Furthermore, from your past posting and time to this posting is incredibly fast. I am assuming that this decision you won was on an "emergency" filing and matters were brought to trial.

As all court documents are part of the public record you can "prove" your "evidence" you have given here by simply providing the court file number and jurisdiction.

Other than proving that what you are saying is truthful with cogent evidence to the emotional reasoning you are providing it is just a posting on a message board.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
I would be interested in seeing this also... is it possible court was never involved and the daughter just ended up breaking up with the boyfriend and now is back home for the time being? Prove all of us nay-sayers wrong and provide the court file number.
 
I'm just jumping in here and didn't read P60's other posts but I do know that Grandparents are being given more consideration these days, than in the past. Also: a lawyer told me that only Superior Court Judgments are posted on CanLii, not OCJ (Provincial) ones. I wish mine was on there: I'd love for ppl to be able to see it.
 
BernerFaith: Pls PM me and I'll send you my Court File #. I don't know how to use the PM except to reply. Maybe b/c I'm on my BB, I don't know - but I'd love to know if you can view it. Lol: I also don't know how to capture ppl's quotes in my replies - the ones that appear "outlined" when ppl on here are responding point by point to someone's post.
 
BF. Thx for that link. Guess that lawyer misinformed me. I checked and FOUND my order/decision. Wow, I had no idea it was on there. I'm glad it's somewhere. It sure isn't w/FRO yet. My apologies for earlier statement: that OCJ decisions were not on CanLii.
 
hadenough said:
BF. Thx for that link. Guess that lawyer misinformed me. I checked and FOUND my order/decision. Wow, I had no idea it was on there. I'm glad it's somewhere. It sure isn't w/FRO yet. My apologies for earlier statement: that OCJ decisions were not on CanLii.
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Hadenough, if you are comfortable sharing, I would also like to read about your case. The circumstances of it as you described so far on this forum are certainly quite odd/interesting. Please PM me with the details if you are comfortable sharing, thanks :) (Or would you like me to PM you and you can reply?)
 
EXQ; pm me and no I don't mind sharing. Ticks me off that wrong date is on decision (they added an extra day?) and there are typo's (sloppy) but I will give you the info. I had no idea it was on there. Thx BernerFaith. :)
 
PH: I wondered that too. I'm pretty sure it needs the all mighty STAMP. I'm about ready to stamp a few foreheads. :s Really need to know if I can get any of this secured.
 
Hadenough:

Go to the court house and take a printed out copy of the one you can print out from CanlII, with the actual correct date and file number, they should have zero issue getting you a court copy that should be stamped.

Or contact your lawyer's office and have them do exactly the same thing.

I also wouldn't hestitate to fax/mail the non-stamped copy to FRO in the meantime and tell them you're working on getting the stamped copy.

If you had any other correspondence with someone who was helping you outside of the family court system, I'd follow up with a new letter and with the order attached.
 
Thx PH: I sent the non-stamped order w/complete registration pkg and witnessed statement of "new" arrears to FRO on Feb 2nd. Yes I might print out the CanLii decision and go to the clerk's office w/it. I don't know that I'll get anywhere, but it's worth a try. Likely I will be told: you need to speak to your lawyer. Yeahhh. Okay. What Lawyer? The one that doesn't respond? Also: last person I spoke to @fro said they need the "stamped" order. Great. I got a different answer previously from them (when I sent the info @beginning of FEB).
 
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Yes, we first had an emergency access granted for Christmas. Then the judge established that we had the best interests of our grandchildren, and we had an established bond with them. He then ordered Skype calls twice a week, plus family counselling and mediation. We have a date for a court conference in August if we do not come to an agreement. Our daughter complied with the court judgement. We are in the process of family counselling. Our daughter did break off with the loser and came home with two kids. Now I am looking after these kids for her, while she restarts her life again. Hubby has helped her move and financially. We are steadfast that we will not settle on less than a legal agreement for access which is court stamped. Once this is all done later in the year, perhaps end of summer, I may post court information on this forum. In the meantime I may write a book to help/inform other grandparents on how to have the court system in Ontario work for them.
 
Yes, we first had an emergency access granted for Christmas. Then the judge established that we had the best interests of our grandchildren, and we had an established bond with them.
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Patty: You've managed to accomplish something that a lot of biological parents can't. There are biological parents on here who didn't get to see their children at Christmas time. Since I have a mother that had been very involved in my children's lives since they were born and hasn't been able to see them much since my separation, I give you kudos.

I hope your daughter stays on the right track and doesn't repeat past behavior.
 
hadenough said:
EXQ; pm me and no I don't mind sharing. Ticks me off that wrong date is on decision (they added an extra day?) and there are typo's (sloppy) but I will give you the info. I had no idea it was on there. Thx BernerFaith. :)
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Hadenough: You can get the errors corrected in the decision by CanLII. You just have to identify the errors and provide them a true original copy of the order. They are usually quick in turning around the corrections.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
hadenough said:
Thx PH: I sent the non-stamped order w/complete registration pkg and witnessed statement of "new" arrears to FRO on Feb 2nd. Yes I might print out the CanLii decision and go to the clerk's office w/it. I don't know that I'll get anywhere, but it's worth a try. Likely I will be told: you need to speak to your lawyer. Yeahhh. Okay. What Lawyer? The one that doesn't respond? Also: last person I spoke to @fro said they need the "stamped" order. Great. I got a different answer previously from them (when I sent the info @beginning of FEB).
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If you go to the court house they will produce a stamped copy for you. One should have been sent to you directly by the court too as well as your solicitor. There is a small fee for getting another copy of the decision.

Just bring the CanLII public posting and all the information to retrieve, copy and stamp another one for you is on there.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Patty60 said:
Yes, we first had an emergency access granted for Christmas.
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How did you circumvent the FLR requirements for the definition of an "emergency" under the Rules? The rules are quite clear on what constitutes an "emergency". I would assume but, have no evidence to the fact, that you had to establish that your daughter was a risk of emotional and/or physical harm to the two children in question.

As grandparents you have to establish custodial rights in the filing of an emergency. This would require significant supporting evidence.

Was the "emergency" motion brought ex-party (without notice) to the parents involved. The other parent (father) I am assuming provided evidence and concern in support of your emergency motion. He as a parent could have filed the emergency on behalf and your supporting affidavit to the emergency motion would have been heard as he is a legal parent to the two children in question.

Very curious as to how an unrecognised parent can bring forward an "emergency" motion and obtain a intern order without the support of CAS or one of the legal parents.

Furthermore, I have a service provider canvasing the Newmarket and Toronto superior & provincial courts for all emergency motions heard in December of 2011. As all court documentation filed with the court is a matter of public record the motion in question should pop quite easily. There are only a handful of judges in these jurisdictions that hear emergency motions regarding family law.

Should the service provider find the court in the dockets I will be sure to pull the file and supporting material. It would be of tremendous benefit to many parents and other caregivers to understand how this proceeding was brought forward to the courts.

Many parents who themselves are abused are often denied emergency motions prior to a case conference. Although not impossible to be done by a grandparent there are only a few ways it could be done... All of which require one of the legal parents (birth parents) to be the filing party from what I have seen in these matters.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Thx Tayken. I've never been sent a stamped copy of order by court or lawyer. Just a lot of vague bs in the way of answers. The only thing that worries me, is that if I go to the clerk's counter, they are going to tell me exactly what the Judge's Secretary told me "you have a lawyer/you were represented - call him." Well as far as I'm concerned, I don't have a lawyer. The last email I got from the lawyer said "I expect to have it soon and will forward you a copy of same" (??) Where is it?? Like, where's it coming from, that he's waiting for it - and where the hell has it "been" ALL this time? I pretty much said that in my email the other day, that I don't understand WHY this delay, and that FRO has NOTHING, and I have yet to recv a response. If I go to Courthouse, the girls will probably call my "favorite judge's secretary" and I just fear at this point, I look like a rogue client/wingnut. The secretary has been rude w/me on 2 occasions and I've only called her 3x.

Also, thx! Great to know that CanLii will change the typos and other errors. It bothers me that even the date is wrong. Seems pretty sloppy to me, but to be honest I haven't searched CanLii and read other orders. I plan to soon.

The above convo lol re: emergency motions is totally going over my head so I don't have a comment on that and admittedly, to some degree I've pulled this thread a little off-topic, Sorry.
 
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