Gap year.

J

jbrian

New member
My child took a gap year. Started uni this fall. Mother has avoided all mediation and conversations with myself and lawyer in an attempt to delay resolution much as possible. Knowing full well until agreement is reached I will incur arrears with the FRO and a militant bombardment seeking every enforcement possible to receive support. I paid the university fees she has asked for. Without an official statement from her. Child is living on residence as well. If you were to take gap year and living away there would be an overpayment. I filed a motion to change after 11 months of trying to come to terms. DRO appointment schedule early next year.

I was wondering what the chances are having the arrears removed and to seek overpayment. I would also like an official statement from the university because I believe very strongly that amount she told my lawyer is a lie.

any advice on support issues is appreciated.
 
jbrian said:
My child took a gap year. Started uni this fall. Mother has avoided all mediation and conversations with myself and lawyer in an attempt to delay resolution much as possible. Knowing full well until agreement is reached I will incur arrears with the FRO and a militant bombardment seeking every enforcement possible to receive support. I paid the university fees she has asked for. Without an official statement from her. Child is living on residence as well. If you were to take gap year and living away there would be an overpayment. I filed a motion to change after 11 months of trying to come to terms. DRO appointment schedule early next year.

I was wondering what the chances are having the arrears removed and to seek overpayment. I would also like an official statement from the university because I believe very strongly that amount she told my lawyer is a lie.

any advice on support issues is appreciated.
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Do not pay any further school expenses especially if you have not seen receipts. You would not pay support for the months of the gap year (September to August) and you will only pay four months of support for kid while they are living away.

Depending on when your court date is, mother should be providing all receipts for school expenses in her response. If they aren't you ask the DRO to order them.

A warning, the DRC is useless and will result in nothing. When it is done, get your next date. If she hasn't provided documentation, request a motion date. If she has, schedule your next conference.

You also need to speak with your case worker at FRO and advise them you have filed a motion to change and that child is not living at home. They will probably do nothing but it is still good to have it documented on your file.

Keep track of what you are paying and what is technically owed so you can add that calculation to your documents. For instance, you would put in your document “I have overpaid child support in the amount of $xyz.”

You probably won't be repaid but the amounts will go against what you owe going forward for both support and school expenses which is why I am saying do not pay anything but support going forward.

I also suggest searching gap year, post secondary and child living away from home in this forum as it has been covered at length and there is a lot of information on it. My husband went through this (gap year, child living away etc) but in his case he had been underpaying support so the amounts evened out once they were calculated and he wasn't overpaying extensive dollars.
 
Thank you for all of that. I do want to state the overpayments in the brief and ask for them to be applied to support going forward I am not hopeful of that either. I have already filed a motion. FRO knows everything but of course there is nothing they can do. My lawyer seems to think it’s so straightforward that we won’t go passed the DRO conference.
I am doubtful. I was just wondering if anyone had this experience and if they were awarded the overpayments.
I have already paid universities fees off a webcaptures she provided. It did not have my daughters name or even the course she chose to pursue.
She put me in a situation That if I did not pay then my daughter wouldn’t be able to go to university. Emotional leverage.
is a refraining order worth it?
my lawyer is so procedural and doesn’t give an outcomes in case she is wrong.
but I will continue to pay support and hope it ends soon.
Going forward for the next three years I refuse to pay the fees without an official statement. I am hoping the judge can get ex to realize that.

Thank you for all of your help!
 
It should be straightforward but if the other party wants to be difficult (like my husband's ex) it will be difficult to reach an easy conclusion.

Dispute resolution conferences are useless and do nothing as it is not a judge who can make an order. Maybe your lawyer knows something everyone else doesn't but it won't result in anything unless your ex agrees to a resolution. That's why I say book your next date immediately once the conference is done. Tell your lawyer you want a date immediately for the next appearance.

Don't let the emotional games impact you. My husband's ex played this game saying she couldn't provide the receipts and even got their kid involved to fight with him. He stayed strong and the receipts showed up and lo and behold his ex was demanding thousands more than what was paid!

If you stop paying FRO, they will move to garnish and freeze your driver's license after $3000. If you are worried about the bulk of the overpayment, you can ask your lawyer about a motion to stay the enforcement. That would be a separate matter.

You aren't the first one to go through this and won't be the last. Just see what happens at the DRO conference. Make sure you let your lawyer know to not drag their heels. Your paperwork should note the issue, what has been attempted and what the amounts are what they should be. My husband's paperwork laid out what the situation was, what support was owed, what was paid, what the overpayment/underpayment was etc. It should also include details on what was paid for school and the lack of documentation. You should be requesting full disclosure on expenses and a record of enrollment and proof of OSAP award. If she complies you will see a statement of account from the school, a statement of account from OSAP, book receipts and a record of enrollment from the school. Residence feels will be on the school statement but OSAP will show the grant info. From there you will be able to calculate what was owed versus what was paid.
 
Thank you again for all of this. Her responses to motion have been outrageous. It’s a numbers game with the courts and thank you for reminding me of that!
 
jbrian said:
Thank you again for all of this. Her responses to motion have been outrageous. It’s a numbers game with the courts and thank you for reminding me of that!
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My husband's judge actually said to his ex…”all you need to do is put together the receipts, calculate what months support was paid and settle the matter. This is just a math exercise”. And yet his ex argued with the judge on what the share of expenses were and what was an actual expense.

No judge is going to tolerate bullshit. Stay calm, stay professional and get the matter in front of a judge. Good luck!
 
I just want it over with. These full support payments and the top up arrears amount are hard to juggle on top of legal fees and the university costs. I was excluded from choice of university and ignored until I got a lawyer.
My wife of 14 years made the payments for the fees out of her personal LOC. No one was prepared for these costs. To be honest I’m worried about the future and the affordability of her choice of uni if everyone is incurring debt to fund a program that basically leads to no career.
There are two university locations that are driving distance from my house. Ofcourse living with us would never be an option for obvious reason. Now she’s saying they can’t afford it ,and apparently I can and I have to pay half of it and full support to pay for her half of contributions. It’s a total nightmare and BS. She’s bringing up my wife’s income. The sale of our old home and purchase of new one. Any stall tactic she can use.On top of it all I haven’t seen my daughter in two years.Her brothers ask for her and don’t understand why she hasn’t seen us.
It’s very hard to stay focused on the process when it effect you and the kids so emotionally.

I’ll stay strong!!
 
None of that is relevant. All that matters is the amounts and proportionate share. Kid has a share of the expense as well. If she chose to go away then she is obligated to contribute. The judge in my husband's case clearly said if kid wanted to go away then dad's obligation is for local costs. But that was never fully ordered, just one third.

And I feel you not seeing your child. My husband has two kids who were fully influenced by their mother. He has a fractured relationship with one and no relationship with the other yet he contributed $25,000 to their educations in addition to support and other costs. His ex led them to believe that he was trying to bankrupt her and that because he had me and his equalization, he should pony up everything. At one point she suggested they get a loan together to pay for the kids costs!

It won't be over quickly but if you have arrears owing on top of support, the overpayment made will go to that. Definitely stay on your lawyer to keep the case moving. Court dates are backed up so you want to make sure you have your next date before you leave the building.

Just remember to take a deep breath and let the bullshit go. There was so much crap in the documents from my husband's ex that at one point he told me to leave him because he was so ashamed at the things she was saying. It was ugly and unnecessary. The only thing that made him feel better was to see her reduced to tears from the judges words to her on the bullshit and the cost award against her for the waste of time. You will get through this and are better off away from that toxic person.
 
That would make me feel so much better. To see her put in her place. However she has done so much damage not just to my relationship with my daughter but with her brothers. They are 12 and 13. She is their only sister and the only siblings my daughter has. They really do love eachother. In their own little world when they are together.

I did not want to pay those fees without a financial statement. I do not talk to my daughters mom because she is so manipulative. My wife talks to her and has put up with her bs all these years for the kids. She knows my wife is an easy target to get paid because my wife is “it’s only money” the kids matter most. Cried to my wife about the fees,my wife who ran to the bank to max her LOC in the hopes we might see my daughter even for a day this Christmas. It is not happening.
It’s sickening to know she uses the support payments to by Christmas gifts for her cats and unemployed husband if 10 years,while I’m getting threatened with enforcements from the FRO.

I cannot wait for her day in court. I try my best to not be resentful. She is self represented so I can’t wait to listen to her stumble over her words. Her manipulation tactics may have worked all these year,but hopefully not in court!
 
jbrian said:
My child took a gap year. Started uni this fall. .... If you were to take gap year and living away there would be an overpayment.
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How old was the child graduating high school? Were they self sufficient? I'm not sure about that "overpayment".

Don't underestimate the case conference. You'll be explained the law, encouraged to come to some sort of temporary agreement and the judge will sign off on it. This is regardless of regular cc or dro cc. They'll schedule your next settlement conference before the cc ends as well. If you haven't agreed on the past and present costs, you can bring a motion before the sc to address it.
 
Child support was paid up until she was 18. She was not attending school. I continued to pay support enough to avoid the arrears. However they still accumulated since no resolution. If the months she was not in school and when she was living away were to be factored. I would have an overpayment. I didn’t want to keep paying full support during this entire time incase I cannot get any of it back.
she will most likely argue the months she was 18 and not in school. I would like support tobhave been suspended from when she was 18 and not in school and resumed September when she started uni away from home. As per guidelines “summer formula” if they accept that then there would be an overpayment.
 
I'm confused about your claim of arrears. Were you not paying support? Was there a point where you weren't paying and it built up? Not sure why you have arrears if you were paying what was owed.

You should be dealing with your ex not your wife. You should be doing it via email for documentation. Going forward, everything will be done through court response or the lawyer. Your ex is obligated to provide full documentation of expenses.

Hopefully you get that info before the conference.
 
The arrears have built up while she was not attending school. The old order is all FRO has. I can’t go and change it without a new order. So FRO along with ex keep pursuing an amount that should have been updated by now. There are no section 7 expenses on the current order that is from 2015. I have been trying to come to resolution and update but she won’t attend mediation so I had to file a motion to change. She got the fees how she wanted and she is still pursuing support that should have been updated to reflect my daughters change of circumstances. Does that make sense? I have not been paying that amount in full. If you take her gap year and her living away from home and what the amounts I have paid for the last 15 months. It would still be an overpayment if they wanted to go back to the day my daughter’s circumstances changed.
 
She got what she wanted in terms of fees but doesn’t want to update support. She knows full well it needs to be updated but the longer she avoids the more arrears will build up and I will pay to avoid having my license suspended. So yes there are arrears since the support has not been paid in full as it states on 2015 order. There were no arrears when she turned 18. These have built up during the last 15 months of trying to come to terms. If I were to calculate gap year + living away at school the amount I have paid would be more then what should have been paid had we updated the old order.
 
Make sure your court documents outline why you haven't paid support in full (ie. You were concerned about a significant overpayment building up.)

And you are responsible for your proportionate share of 2/3 her school expenses less any grants or scholarships. Meaning, if kid got a tuition credit, tuition less the grant, residence, meal plan, books and supplies would be split three ways with one third going to kid and the remaining split proportionate to income (whatever the s7 split is).

She can't arbitrarily set an amount and demand it.
 
So are the /bursies/scholarships apart of the child’s 1/3 of contributions? Or that comes off the total and the remaining is split 3 ways?
 
It depends on the case for those and what your agreement says. I haven't seen any cases where a child got more than the OSAP grant but for the most part agreements say all three are taken off the top. She may not tell you if kid got them.

Technically the child's portion comes from loans and earnings. Kids are expected to work to earn money to contribute. They aren't supposed to go into crushing debt but contribute. And if kid chose to go away when a school was available at home, they have an even greater burden to bear.

Your ex can't argue for support so she can pay her share of the expense. That's not how it works. She has a responsibility to support her kid the same as you.
 
StillPaying said:
How old was the child graduating high school? Were they self sufficient? I'm not sure about that "overpayment".

Don't underestimate the case conference. You'll be explained the law, encouraged to come to some sort of temporary agreement and the judge will sign off on it. This is regardless of regular cc or dro cc. They'll schedule your next settlement conference before the cc ends as well. If you haven't agreed on the past and present costs, you can bring a motion before the sc to address it.
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She was 17 when she graduated high school in June 2022. Turned 18 in the fall and wasn’t attending post secondary. Support was paid in full and I continued to pay in full until I paid for university fees as per moms breakdowns that included no financial statements. for fall/winter 2023/2024 term. She is now 19 halfway through her first year yet the order hasn’t been updated to reflect change in circumstances or even add S7. This should have all been done prior to start of uni, however mother avoided all attempts for resolution and continues to pursue a support amount that should have been updated. I have arrears owing since I haven’t paid full support based off order from 2015 that just says “until support is paid” . This needs to be updated. I doubt the months she wasn’t in school will be applied. My lawyer told me to work it out with FRO to avoid enforcement since I would never get the overpayments back. Well even with what I’ve paid it would be an overpayment. By the time this is settled she would have completed her first year and second years fees will be due. It is a long delayed process , a reasonable person would want to update but I am not dealing with a reasonable person and she wants to use FROs help as long as she can to keep pursuing an amount of support that should have been updated 15 months ago. I was left with no alternative but to file a motion to change.
 
You don't pay any nee fees until it is worked out. If she files the fees with FRO you can dispute them.

What will more than likely happen is that all of the calculations will be made and what you have owing as arrears will be reduced. A new support deduction order will be sent to FRO updating the case.

Here is a scenario…your arrears with FRO are set at $2500. You paid school fees and it turns out you overpaid $3000. Your new monthly support amount is $200 per month every month until April 2026 (I'm guessing when kid will be done.)

Your new court order will have details in it where it states what documents have to be provided and how the split is laid out (ie. Grants, scholarships and bursaries off the total then 1/3 to the child with the remaining 2/3 split proportionate to income.) Monthly support of $200 until April 2026. Both parties have to provide full income disclosure annually until support is complete.

The support deduction order will say all arrears have been paid in full and the current amount is $0. From x month, monthly support of $200 is owed. Support for child will terminate April 2026.

You can go on the school website and get some details on tuition and residence fees and then try the OSAP aid estimator on their site. That will give you a bit of an idea on what the costs might be and what the grants might be.
 
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