full financial disclosure?
- Thread starter beltane
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Beltane, from your earlier posts you have been separated for a few years. Yes, they can ask for the entire year of bank statements. Full financial disclosure is required under the law. And yes, every single expense on your bank statement will be scrutinized by your ex's lawyers.
If you don't give "the other side" the disclosure they can get a court order for it, and you will most likely be paying their court costs. So give them what they want in a timely manner, and be prepared to justify every expense.
Good Luck
If you don't give "the other side" the disclosure they can get a court order for it, and you will most likely be paying their court costs. So give them what they want in a timely manner, and be prepared to justify every expense.
Good Luck
Decent Dad
New member
Oh and make copies of everything. I have given my ex AND her lawyer multiple copies of the same statements (some items as much as six times). I just keep doing it and in a timely manner. It is abusive (both of me and THE SYSTEM) but it prevents them from having ANY ammunition against me in court. Judges hate when you are "hiding" something. Best to be up and up since they will get it anyway. Eventually a judge may go "Enough already".
I have boxes of bank statements, biils, credit card statements, every single reciept I spent on my child, etc. As well as logs, witness statements and more. It completely sucks and evenutally this nightmare will end. But when you have to prove yourself in court, it helps t have a complete and proper paper trail.
I have boxes of bank statements, biils, credit card statements, every single reciept I spent on my child, etc. As well as logs, witness statements and more. It completely sucks and evenutally this nightmare will end. But when you have to prove yourself in court, it helps t have a complete and proper paper trail.
I've been searching high and low on the internet to find the legal sections that state that a year's worth of bank statements is part of full financial disclosure.
My STBX has a lawyer, but hates using her because of course it costs him money. I am more than willing to disclose my bank statements, but when I mentioned to him that he will have to do likewise he is now saying he will absolutely NOT. I told him to check with his lawyer and find out that it is required, but of course he won't call her because it will cost him money.
Is there a place on the web that states that past bank statements are part of full financial disclosure? I've looked everywhere and all it ever says is "full financial disclosure" but doesn't state specifically WHAT that entails, and certainly I haven't found past bank statements mentioned at all...
Any help?
I will speak with my lawyer later in the week, but I find it incredibly frustrating to have to go to her each time HE refuses to get counsel from his own lawyer. I end up finding the information for him from MY lawyer, and then educating HIM.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
My STBX has a lawyer, but hates using her because of course it costs him money. I am more than willing to disclose my bank statements, but when I mentioned to him that he will have to do likewise he is now saying he will absolutely NOT. I told him to check with his lawyer and find out that it is required, but of course he won't call her because it will cost him money.
Is there a place on the web that states that past bank statements are part of full financial disclosure? I've looked everywhere and all it ever says is "full financial disclosure" but doesn't state specifically WHAT that entails, and certainly I haven't found past bank statements mentioned at all...
Any help?
I will speak with my lawyer later in the week, but I find it incredibly frustrating to have to go to her each time HE refuses to get counsel from his own lawyer. I end up finding the information for him from MY lawyer, and then educating HIM.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
The Family Rules (Ontario e-laws Ontario Regulation 114/99) require each spouse to produce a sworn Financial Statement. The statement involves disclosure of all assets and debts with values as they existed at the date of marriage, at the date of separation and at the statement date. Each party is expected to be able to document each of the entries in the statement and where necessary, to obtain appraisals of the value of assets. In order to back up your FS you would need bank statements.
Ontario Judges show little patience with parties who fail to make full and complete financial disclosure.
Ontario Judges show little patience with parties who fail to make full and complete financial disclosure.
Thanks Grace! This man is SO frustrating! He had the gall to say he didn't HAVE a bank account on his sworn financial disclosure... meanwhile I have cheques from him on this "mystery" account, AND the photocopy of his recent pay stub says "deposit" and lists his bank account transit number and account number, which is the same as the cheques I have from him!
grrrrr... now he's telling me that if I insist on requesting HIS bank statements (it was his lawyer who started this) that he will fire his lawyer, represent himself and drag this out. SO frustrating!
Obviously something's fishy...
grrrrr... now he's telling me that if I insist on requesting HIS bank statements (it was his lawyer who started this) that he will fire his lawyer, represent himself and drag this out. SO frustrating!
Obviously something's fishy...
I hear your frustration. Same thing happened to me. Our whole case was based on ex's failure to disclose. On the up side, if you have proof he isn't fully disclosing you will most likely get court costs.
Have you done "discoveries" yet, where the lawyers question you under oath? This would be a good opportunity to question him about his finances.
Have you done "discoveries" yet, where the lawyers question you under oath? This would be a good opportunity to question him about his finances.
No, haven't got to that point yet... but this man has no problem lying under oath. He already has 2 convictions for embezzlement over $5,000.00. He's done time in prison for that. So to see him scrambling to get out of child support and spousal support isn't such a far stretch for him. God help me!
I spent 4 years trying to get full disclosure out of my ex, we were married 23 years and three children....in the end, the only 'punishment' was to be found in contempt and ordered to pay the costs of the financial court appearance (he didnt pay it) and base child support only on a notional income. Soon after the papers were signed I was laid off my job, laid off another then cared for my terminal mother for one year. He twice cut child support by $356. per month without notice or warning sending me into alot of debt. Now, years later, taking him back to court for spousal support, we have been in the courts for 2 years and he is still refusing financial disclosure. Again, he has a lawyer who refuses to return calls or emails from my lawyer, racking up my bill. He is in contempt of court and ordered in Sept. to pay the costs of that court appearance ($2500.) 'forthwith'..he has not paid it and has not supplied one piece of paper the judge ordered him to by the Nov. 30 deadline. The judge also ordered I get the Toronto courts to transfer my file to Barrie, and they have lost my files other than 10 pages. Our next court date is Jan. 30. When someone is able to hide income, the courts allow them to get away with it, waste court time and money. Lawyers love couples like this...
momforever1956
New member
I have spent 3 years and literally hundreds of thousands of dollars, with accountants and lawyers trying to get full and complete disclosure. I have a court order for disclosure dated September 2009, and till today we have sent production letters still requesting information.....
Through all of this---we have more than doubled his income from his 1st financial disclosure ......and I want to know--can I claim costs for all that I have spent even though there has been no motions just a court order.
I plan to ask for reimbursement of costs as I had a court order and since September 2009 we have had to request 4 more separate disclosures because each time information trickled in---incomplete.
Through all of this---we have more than doubled his income from his 1st financial disclosure ......and I want to know--can I claim costs for all that I have spent even though there has been no motions just a court order.
I plan to ask for reimbursement of costs as I had a court order and since September 2009 we have had to request 4 more separate disclosures because each time information trickled in---incomplete.
billiechic
New member
why have yuou not dragged this guy back to court? You have AMPLE proof. Sending letters is only costing you MONEY and not getting you anything! Your own lawyer is taking advantage of you and racking up YOUR costs, knowing those letters will do nothing!
probably a few things I can add everyone should be aware of :
here in alberta the lawyers did full disclosure about 4 times,
each one cost me thousands of dollars and as many of you know
lots of time;
the only disclosure that mattered to this family was the last
one when things were being divided up, the prior ones I was always told the X requested and they only contributed to :
a) more legal fee's for me
b) it gave the lawyers (both sides) planning tools, beware they can see
exactly how much coin$ the family has, in my case I had all the
family debt for 3+ years, looking at the consecutive disclosures
you could predict when I would be looking for a 'cardboard box' to live in;
in addition to bank and credit card statements, rrsp - cashable insurance
policys, pensions or anything with a real dollar value must be disclosed, past income statements and T4's too , if your a partner or owner of a business their financial statements must also be disclosed
of the many odd things I encountered here's another one, the X's father passed away couple years into my case, he had told my X (and me) she would get > $100,000 2 yrs prior, this $$ wasnt disclosed - my lawyer just told me 'your not entitled to any of it anyway' , i will spare you the rant on lawyers 'filtering' what she had to disclose ...
here in alberta the lawyers did full disclosure about 4 times,
each one cost me thousands of dollars and as many of you know
lots of time;
the only disclosure that mattered to this family was the last
one when things were being divided up, the prior ones I was always told the X requested and they only contributed to :
a) more legal fee's for me
b) it gave the lawyers (both sides) planning tools, beware they can see
exactly how much coin$ the family has, in my case I had all the
family debt for 3+ years, looking at the consecutive disclosures
you could predict when I would be looking for a 'cardboard box' to live in;
in addition to bank and credit card statements, rrsp - cashable insurance
policys, pensions or anything with a real dollar value must be disclosed, past income statements and T4's too , if your a partner or owner of a business their financial statements must also be disclosed
of the many odd things I encountered here's another one, the X's father passed away couple years into my case, he had told my X (and me) she would get > $100,000 2 yrs prior, this $$ wasnt disclosed - my lawyer just told me 'your not entitled to any of it anyway' , i will spare you the rant on lawyers 'filtering' what she had to disclose ...
billiechic
New member
Financial disclosure does not require a lawyer. You should know what accouts you have, what credit cards and what your debt is. Just write it all down and spend a day calling, sending faxes etc and that should take care of most of it. Unless of course you do own a business or other investments.
this is the perfect thread to put a few out there...... My x said divorce and then refused to disclose - so I disclosed for her (our accounts of consequence are joint or mine, but still due to my health and ability to move around (say to the bank to sign the forms) my ex was put on signing rights when this became a serious issue - eventually it became normal for us as my up and downs never stopped.
So I scronged every square inch of the house, I found pages evreywhere - what statements i did not find well I will state right now that he recognized what was going on with the ex's money games so he went out of his way and pulled statements going back to the openning of some of our accounts that showed the monies deposited "from the WCB Settlements and the CPP Benefits and finally the accounting of the money which we received when my mom died. This money - all of it was to be put aside seperate to save for my retirement as it was clear early on that I would not have any retirement pensions or even a CPP retirement (turns out it will come in at 40% of the max allowable) - to keep this short:
I hold all the bank statements going back to current back to Nov 2009
then from sept 2005 back to jan 2004
I can't find oct 2005 to nov 2009 - ODD I Hunted real hard - I thought we had paper copies.......but she may have gone paperless but I never found any printouts........(my thought is she grabbed these documents somehow, someway - when???????)
all the visa staements back to 2003
the stock trading current back to day 1 in 1997
She shrugged any of the financials off - her words - "I wouldn't get them right anyway" so "she has let me do both of ours" in that I have listed her early pension and rrsp contributiions and put a dollar value to them.
So I have to put a question to all this!! What are the odds of getting disclosure - proper disclosure to some 20 plus accounts that i saw flow through our joint account - and I did id some - many I asked and she in the end refused to provide documented proof of the "missing accounts as far as id and where did "my" money go - add them up and the number starts to get big. But IF I have the bank statements showing the money leaving the account and she doesn't can't show ownership as to where it went - what happens??????
next would be if anyone can add to what I am doing. during a period when i was obviously really sick and incapable of managing or even watching over my "retirement" funds (they were not yet deposited because i had no rrsp deposit room left, No taxable income so we kept it in what was to be a seperated account where we kept this money for my retirement.......but bank account statements and penny stock purchases in like two months showed her, on her own, to over some 30 withdrawals and a whole 3 returns of the funds but in short $40,000 was taken and is gone. I mentioned this in the past but maybe i was the first to get so openly bleed of nearly everything in terms of savings..... but it is gone.
So I scronged every square inch of the house, I found pages evreywhere - what statements i did not find well I will state right now that he recognized what was going on with the ex's money games so he went out of his way and pulled statements going back to the openning of some of our accounts that showed the monies deposited "from the WCB Settlements and the CPP Benefits and finally the accounting of the money which we received when my mom died. This money - all of it was to be put aside seperate to save for my retirement as it was clear early on that I would not have any retirement pensions or even a CPP retirement (turns out it will come in at 40% of the max allowable) - to keep this short:
I hold all the bank statements going back to current back to Nov 2009
then from sept 2005 back to jan 2004
I can't find oct 2005 to nov 2009 - ODD I Hunted real hard - I thought we had paper copies.......but she may have gone paperless but I never found any printouts........(my thought is she grabbed these documents somehow, someway - when???????)
all the visa staements back to 2003
the stock trading current back to day 1 in 1997
She shrugged any of the financials off - her words - "I wouldn't get them right anyway" so "she has let me do both of ours" in that I have listed her early pension and rrsp contributiions and put a dollar value to them.
So I have to put a question to all this!! What are the odds of getting disclosure - proper disclosure to some 20 plus accounts that i saw flow through our joint account - and I did id some - many I asked and she in the end refused to provide documented proof of the "missing accounts as far as id and where did "my" money go - add them up and the number starts to get big. But IF I have the bank statements showing the money leaving the account and she doesn't can't show ownership as to where it went - what happens??????
next would be if anyone can add to what I am doing. during a period when i was obviously really sick and incapable of managing or even watching over my "retirement" funds (they were not yet deposited because i had no rrsp deposit room left, No taxable income so we kept it in what was to be a seperated account where we kept this money for my retirement.......but bank account statements and penny stock purchases in like two months showed her, on her own, to over some 30 withdrawals and a whole 3 returns of the funds but in short $40,000 was taken and is gone. I mentioned this in the past but maybe i was the first to get so openly bleed of nearly everything in terms of savings..... but it is gone.
momforever1956
New member
With all due respect ddol1,,,,, I have absolutely no clue what your post said--what you want to know,,,,,,sorry I cant help you with disclosure on what you have written.
thank you for trying - I really hope this is a better and much clearer attempt (it is so hard to get this out of my head). What I am asking is, I do have all the bank statements, stock trading buying and selling, taking funds from my retirement funds, reciepts and everything else that would build a pretty solid paper trail of her actions. I have tried so hard to get so much paperwork in order, complete (Not perfect though - say 85% complete) and I tried to match what she did with timelines. Take 6K out of a savings account "A" and two days later the money went to purchase "B" -- to which she did not have permission "expressed or otherwise" to go wild with my retirement savings or any other savings when I was sick. This pattern repeated for two months and she basically lost in total more than $60,000. (In the end the total will figure may be closer to $200,000 that will hopefully need to be replaced by my ex when we finally do our final net family property calculations.
My question to the people on this post who have varied issues themselves - in my case, I had no clue to what she was doing and she hid the whole mess from me right to the end. She asked for divorce and it was only with the great help of the bank manager that I uncovered all these "suspicious" activities. But what I have read here today, it left me with the most uneasy feeling that what I have do defend my posistion will just not be good enough.
For a short post, do I actually have a chance of holding her accountable to her actions, taking my retirement funds without permission while I had what I will call a combination of physical and I am now learning significant mental related health problems which I am now in the process of testing and hopefully getting some help for me.
For my retirement funds, I had no chance of picking up on what she was doing let alone understand well enough to stop this from happening. After my wife asked for her divorce the discovery process began. By spending months searching and building my defense or proof with the actual bank statements and other related documents to "tell my story".
Do I really have a chance of having a good defense (I do have probably 85% of all our financial statements - some going right back to the day we were married) so that she would actually be held accountable for what she did (in other words do I need something else besides the really strong documentation of what she did to actually see my retirement funds returned to me through the equalization process). I am screwed without those retirement savings as I will not have any retirement pension, just a partial CPP when that day comes.
If this makes any difference - we had never before "gambled away money ever - we lived a very conservative careful saving, wise investing with moderate gains that allowed us to grow our money - that is untill the year I got sick - everything you read occurred only in the last two or three years. As far as disclosure, she refused all disclosure up to now unless it was the amounts to which were of the date of seperation (to her declaring any history was or is a breach of her privacy and she will refuse to the end.......... what she does not realize is i really worked hard at finding documents and the bank manager went back sometimes up to 15 years to the opening of some accounts - to try and geta full picture of what she did - is there anything else I can work on to give me the best chance of actually recovering these funds she took??
My question to the people on this post who have varied issues themselves - in my case, I had no clue to what she was doing and she hid the whole mess from me right to the end. She asked for divorce and it was only with the great help of the bank manager that I uncovered all these "suspicious" activities. But what I have read here today, it left me with the most uneasy feeling that what I have do defend my posistion will just not be good enough.
For a short post, do I actually have a chance of holding her accountable to her actions, taking my retirement funds without permission while I had what I will call a combination of physical and I am now learning significant mental related health problems which I am now in the process of testing and hopefully getting some help for me.
For my retirement funds, I had no chance of picking up on what she was doing let alone understand well enough to stop this from happening. After my wife asked for her divorce the discovery process began. By spending months searching and building my defense or proof with the actual bank statements and other related documents to "tell my story".
Do I really have a chance of having a good defense (I do have probably 85% of all our financial statements - some going right back to the day we were married) so that she would actually be held accountable for what she did (in other words do I need something else besides the really strong documentation of what she did to actually see my retirement funds returned to me through the equalization process). I am screwed without those retirement savings as I will not have any retirement pension, just a partial CPP when that day comes.
If this makes any difference - we had never before "gambled away money ever - we lived a very conservative careful saving, wise investing with moderate gains that allowed us to grow our money - that is untill the year I got sick - everything you read occurred only in the last two or three years. As far as disclosure, she refused all disclosure up to now unless it was the amounts to which were of the date of seperation (to her declaring any history was or is a breach of her privacy and she will refuse to the end.......... what she does not realize is i really worked hard at finding documents and the bank manager went back sometimes up to 15 years to the opening of some accounts - to try and geta full picture of what she did - is there anything else I can work on to give me the best chance of actually recovering these funds she took??
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