Financial Statement Form 13.1

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FREEATLAST2013

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Hello,

I have a very quick question. Husband is filling out his financial statement. He has no income (unemployed) and all bills are paid by me. So in Part 2: Expenses, should he still fill out the amounts, or leave them blank????? He says that he should fill it out as these are his expenses too. I am thinking that since he does not pay it, these are my expenses only.

Suggestions?????
 
Does he receive EI for being unemployed or other form of support? If he leaves it blank, it's going to affect you in how much you end up paying him

You already mentioned that you are carrying some of his debt, think about that


FREEATLAST2013 said:
Hello,

I have a very quick question. Husband is filling out his financial statement. He has no income (unemployed) and all bills are paid by me. So in Part 2: Expenses, should he still fill out the amounts, or leave them blank????? He says that he should fill it out as these are his expenses too. I am thinking that since he does not pay it, these are my expenses only.

Suggestions?????
Click to expand...
 
no EI , since he has been without a job for 7 years.... And yes, I am currently paying for his student loan.

So what is your suggestion in terms of the expenses.... should I put it at zero?
 
Is this the spouse you are separating from?

Stop paying his student loan.

7 YEARS? Is he disabled?

He needs to go get a McJob.

Expenses would be things he currently pays.
Since he pays nothing, his expenses are ZERO.
 
NBDad said:
Is this the spouse you are separating from?

Stop paying his student loan.

7 YEARS? Is he disabled?

He needs to go get a McJob.

Expenses would be things he currently pays.
Since he pays nothing, his expenses are ZERO.
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Well, I am trying to play nice now, so that he waives his right to spousal support (maybe).

And no, he is not disabled... in fact he is young (37), healthy (I did make him get a full physical recently, and doctor said at the time he was in top health), and very well educated (MBA). And he applies for management or senior positions with no experience... so he gets rejected. But McJob (or Timms) are below him, as there is no opportunity for growth.... Yah.... What gets me, I come from a immigrant family, where my parents had top positions in the "mother" country, but came here and worked in factories (physical labour with long hours!)... They felt that cash in hand is so much better than having a title! And now he is going to milk me dry for all the money that my parents invested in me, and gave to me!!!! That's what really burns!

So in terms of the expenses, should they be left blank for him. Or, in the form with instructions, its says to put in the expense and mark it with W (for wife), and next to the expense put "paid by wife". Which one would you do?
 
HappyDays said:
Stop paying his bills and push to have an income imputed on him.
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Well, I cannot stop paying "his" bills, as we still live in the same house, therefore majority of the bills are household related. And I would imagine that I have to give him money for food. And if he doesn't pay his loans, I would imagine the bank would put a lean on the house (our house). Also, I am trying to play nice for now, in hopes that he will sign a waiver on the spousal support.

What do you mean "have an income imputed on him"? What does that mean? What do I need to do?
 
<H3>13.2 Imputing Income

The Spousal Support Advisory Guidelines are income-based guidelines and thus require much more careful attention to the actual incomes, or the income-earning capacities, of both spouses. By focussing on income, the Guidelines actually encourage a more sophisticated analysis of "self-sufficiency" on the part of the recipient, rather than some rough-and-ready downward adjustment of the monthly amount of support. Consistent with Moge, the question is usually: what income could this specific recipient earn, with his or her experience, education and qualifications? As the B.C. Court of Appeal explained in MacEachern, imputing income provides a ready means of assessing and encouraging self-sufficiency. In that case, the Court imputed a low-wage full-time retail sales income to the wife who was working only part-time and who had not made "wholehearted" efforts, and then fixed the amount of spousal support at the low end of the range under the with child support formula.[125]
Imputing income imposes a discipline on our thinking about self-sufficiency. What sort of employment might the recipient find? Is the employment available full-time or part-time? How much can the recipient realistically contribute to her or his own support? What are the prospects of any improvement in that income? If there is training or education required, how will that change the employment prospects of the support recipient?
The answers to these questions will often generate different estimates of potential income. These estimated incomes can in turn be used to generate ranges under the formulas. Where the recipient’s income, actual or imputed, is lower and the payor has a much higher income, as in many long traditional marriages, then the different estimates of income will often produce little change in the ranges, making the imputation of income less telling to the final outcome. In other cases, however, the spouses’ competing views on how much income to impute to a recipient will be the crux of the spousal support dispute, usually where the recipient might have considerable earning power.
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</H3>
13. SELF-SUFFICIENCY - Spousal Support Advisory Guidelines July 2008
 
There is a lesson in your story, and hopefully you learn from it before you jump into the next serious relationship. If you were blinded by looks and poppy luv before, time to ditch that and find someone of your own stature in the future (hard working and not a slob)

Looks are only temporary and the rest of the stuff that holds a relationship together is everlasting. Try explaining that to teenagers now who are going to have to find that out the hard way soon

Anyway...I hear ya as am an immigrant as well and have had to work hard for everything I achieved so far without any handouts. Cut your loses, get this over with and cut that umbilical cord between you and this nincompoop


FREEATLAST2013 said:
Well, I am trying to play nice now, so that he waives his right to spousal support (maybe).

And no, he is not disabled... in fact he is young (37), healthy (I did make him get a full physical recently, and doctor said at the time he was in top health), and very well educated (MBA). And he applies for management or senior positions with no experience... so he gets rejected. But McJob (or Timms) are below him, as there is no opportunity for growth.... Yah.... What gets me, I come from a immigrant family, where my parents had top positions in the "mother" country, but came here and worked in factories (physical labour with long hours!)... They felt that cash in hand is so much better than having a title! And now he is going to milk me dry for all the money that my parents invested in me, and gave to me!!!! That's what really burns!

So in terms of the expenses, should they be left blank for him. Or, in the form with instructions, its says to put in the expense and mark it with W (for wife), and next to the expense put "paid by wife". Which one would you do?
Click to expand...
 
You don't have to put money in his hands, doesn't he have parents? Buy food for the house period and make sure you cut off the non-essential items (cellphone, internet etc)




FREEATLAST2013 said:
Well, I cannot stop paying "his" bills, as we still live in the same house, therefore majority of the bills are household related. And I would imagine that I have to give him money for food. And if he doesn't pay his loans, I would imagine the bank would put a lean on the house (our house). Also, I am trying to play nice for now, in hopes that he will sign a waiver on the spousal support.

What do you mean "have an income imputed on him"? What does that mean? What do I need to do?
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Oink....

Thank you for the support... See, I am one of these people that is constantly riddled with guilt. So for the longest time I felt like I was abandoning him... Yes, I know... crazy... It took me a while to get it through my head that he is an ADULT!

And, yes he has parents... but he does not keep in touch with anybody! He hates criticism, so could not see his family because they kept on asking him why he is not working.

Can I cut off his cell phone and internet? Or can he claim that I am preventing him from getting a job? He already alluded to this, when he found out that I spoke with my best friend about him, who also agreed to be his reference. He claimed that I am slandering him and taking away his references, and therefore standing in his way of employment.
 
Free:

First do you have legal representation and have you filed?

It would help to know where you are in the process and what type of divorce resolution you're working towards...ie, mediated or contested.

I have not been personally through the mediation process so I'm not sure how imputing an income is handled there....but in a contested divorce, part of your filing would be to ask the judge to impute an income to him based on his education/qualifications/experience and the financial decisions (ie SS, CS) would be based on that imputed income.

Can I cut off his cell phone and internet? Or can he claim that I am preventing him from getting a job? He already alluded to this, when he found out that I spoke with my best friend about him, who also agreed to be his reference. He claimed that I am slandering him and taking away his references, and therefore standing in his way of employment.
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LOL...if there was a way to sue for "slander" because a spouse talked about the other spouse, there'd be a lot of rich people on this forum. Ignore him...you can talk about your situation to whomever you please. Although I would stay off public forum internet sites like Facebook, Twitter and avoid written email. You don't want anything in writing...particularly on public forum sites. You can look up hearsay rules too. His telling the judge that "he heard you said something to someone" isn't admissable in court. I would ignore his threats (there will be lots of lots of them so grow a thick skin) and just be reasonable when venting to others...maybe pick someone to talk to that isn't going to feed information back to him.

As for cutting off his cell phone and internet. Yes you can do that. You are not required to pay for any of his personal expenses during the divorce process. You should certainly continue to pay the household bills...but I'd keep everything at a bare minimum. If he needs money for legal fees or cell phones...he can do what everyone else does during the separation process when they don't have it...borrow it. You are no longer required to support extraordinary living expenses.

Make sure that you close any joint accounts that aren't related to paying household bills. You do not want to leave any lines of credit, credit cards, etc open that he can rack up.
 
Pursuinghappiness said:
First do you have legal representation and have you filed?

It would help to know where you are in the process and what type of divorce resolution you're working towards...ie, mediated or contested.
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I currently have represenation, he does not, and he says that he does not need one. I actually strongly encouraged him to obtain one, especially when signing the Seperation Agreement. I even offered to pay for his visit to a lawyer to sign the agreement. Currently, we are working towards drafting a final version of the separation agreement. But he is stalling the process.

And right now, I want to stay out of the courts and mediation, and try to work these things out like grown adults (which I am finding might not be as easy as I thought).

Pursuinghappiness said:
As for cutting off his cell phone and internet. Yes you can do that. You are not required to pay for any of his personal expenses during the divorce process. You should certainly continue to pay the household bills...but I'd keep everything at a bare minimum. If he needs money for legal fees or cell phones...he can do what everyone else does during the separation process when they don't have it...borrow it. You are no longer required to support extraordinary living expenses.
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Its so hard to break old habits. I still feel like I am responsible for his well-being. I know I am being naive, but I am also a very rational and calm person. I do not get upset easilty. So I am keeping it nice so far, hoping that he will in turn be rational and fair to me....
 
Free:

Forgive me, I am not going through a mediated divorce process...so I don't have a lot of advice on going that route.

If you think that by giving in on some of these things that you can get a reasonable separation agreement signed that is definitely the right way to go. You'll avoid a lot of time, expense and stress staying out of the family court process and so conceding to pay his cell phone bill..even legal expenses might be reasonable given that you're trying to compromise through an agreement with him.

Unfortunately, I don't have much advice to offer here because I didn't get the opportunity to go this route...my ex wanted to go the highly contested route....so I'll let the other posters who have more experience with mediation chime in.

Best wishes!
 
FREEATLAST2013 said:
To come back to Part 2: Expenses on the financial statement. What should he do there? Leave blank or fill them in and mark as paid by wife?
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My advice would be to calculate what the total joint expenses are for the house, and divide them in two. Then half the cost is on his statement and half is on yours. Anything in his name alone and for his use alone, goes only on his statement.

The statement doesn't care who pays them, only that they are the expenses. The budget part is more of an estimate of what he'll incur after he's separated anyways. He won't have zero expenses after he moves out, so he shouldn't fill it out like that now.

Stop paying anything in his name. His cell, his student loans, whatever is only in his name is now his. You are separated; this means dividing the finances. Cutting off his cell and internet may feel harsh, but he can use the library to job hunt etc. Don't let his blame of you make you feel guilty. He dug his own hole, and now that you are separating, you are not responsible for helping him out of it any longer. The longer you keep supporting him financially, the better you are making his entitlement to spousal support seem.

And imputing an income means using an appropriate imaginary income for him for all calculations. So because he is young, healthy, educated and capable of working, you can either impute the average wage of an MBA to him, or a full time minimum wage income if he can prove he has tried to find employment and was unsuccessful. He doesn't appear to have a good case for that if all he's done is play video games all day, so start with the higher imputation.

He'll put zero as his income in that section, and you will argue that it should be X based on your research about what an MBA is capable of earning.

His career did not suffer because of your marriage (unless maybe he got job offers in other cities and you refused to move) so he should not be entitled to spousal support.
 
Free.....as mentioned above by me (an immigrant myself) who is currently going through the same but opposite to your situation but with the person working, read my lips in addition to what others have said above and make the following you cause of action this afternoon

a.) Close all joint account pronto
b.) Close all credit cards in joint names
c.) close all line of credits in joint names
d.) Get a combination safe and lock all your stuff in there, and I mean all you bank, personal stuff in there
e.) terminate the cellphone and internet account pronto (he can't do anything about it)
f.) If he doesn't like criticism and avoids his parents, then he should avoid you also
g.) input an entry level MBA salary (workopolis and monster) for reference

I sure hope you are not the one buying those games for him? You can stop this madness like today, or continue to enable it for some weird reason

Get you lawyer on this right away and have the blob served. You will see how fast he gets off his backside then :mad:
 
Rioe said:
My advice would be to calculate what the total joint expenses are for the house, and divide them in two. Then half the cost is on his statement and half is on yours. Anything in his name alone and for his use alone, goes only on his statement.

The statement doesn't care who pays them, only that they are the expenses. The budget part is more of an estimate of what he'll incur after he's separated anyways. He won't have zero expenses after he moves out, so he shouldn't fill it out like that now.
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Right now my lawyer entered all (full 100%) expenses in my financial statement. So should I enter the same in his? I just do not want the amounts to be double counted....
 
FREEATLAST2013 said:
Right now my lawyer entered all (full 100%) expenses in my financial statement. So should I enter the same in his? I just do not want the amounts to be double counted....
Click to expand...

There's a thought that the budget part of the financial statement is more to reflect estimated ongoing expenses and income post-separation, to help establish any need for spousal support, than it is to accurately reflect the marriage expenses.

So if your lawyer feels that you should be putting the full amounts in yours, what you put into his would be his projected expenses (for a cheap bachelor rental once he moves out!) and income (impute that MBA!). If he doesn't like it, tell him to complete his own damn statement. If he puts all zeroes, obviously this is inappropriate and you must take him to court.

What does your lawyer advise should be your reaction if he puts all zeroes? Mine would say that was unrealistic and proceed to estimate and impute and base the separation agreement on that.
 
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