Financial Question

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katc said:
Tayken - thank you for the tears that sit in my eyes :) You have touched my heart.

I know nothing about doing any of this, except that I want there to be no hate in all of this.

I want things to remain amicable - why fight? There is no point. Both husby and I have bruised hearts - why add to that?

I suspect it is so much more profound for him because he still has hope - where I have none. That can't be easy for him.

Because of you, and others - I can approach this with far more knowledge than before I found this forum.

Thank you for that.
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Knowledge is fundamental to getting yourself through what you are experiencing. You may find others are "harsh" in the words they choose to use. You may even find this with responses from me as a contributor. The reality check though is that the learned posters such as Mess, SOTS, Blink, HammerDad, WorkingDad, wretchedotis (who by far should win some sort of award for change in my humble opinion), Nadia, Berner_Faith, FaithAndMorals, and many many others who deserve credit and recognition is that ultimately they want you to achieve exactly what you so mindfully and eloquently stated:

I want things to remain amicable - why fight? There is no point. Both husby and I have bruised hearts - why add to that?
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If you continue to respect the other party in this matter as you have done in your responses you will be fine. I rarely, if ever, state this if to any poster. That is after over 3100 posts to this site.

Continue to focus on the positive emotion you are feeling and expressing and things can only get better in your life.

Luck not needed to be wished in your matter as you are going to be "ok"!
Tayken
 
Thank you for the vote of confidence.

I know that through this, I will sometimes lose my way. I will cry in frustration, but I will learn. I have many new "friends" on this forum so willing to give of their time, to offer me suggestions, and to help point me in the right direction, but to also allow me to learn on my own. And I am most grateful.

And it will "all be ok".

"Harsh" is okay - I'm good with harsh. Need it sometimes.

Now, if only I could find that link you posted in a thread for ILC .... :( Ahh, found it!!!!
 
I do have another question - while it's good that "I" am doing this financial stuff to protect myself, what happens should STBX pass away? He doesn't have a will.

I will ... soon.

How does that affect me if he dies intestate?
 
You get all of his stuff. You may be stuck with his debt, but I'm not positive. I learn that in a course next semester.
 
Thanks Mess - keep me posted.

Tho' I do plan on taking this agreement that I just did (that he agreed to) to have someone look over - perhaps I'll ask them.

I did put this in the agreement: [FONT=&quot]. Each agree that they shall pay her and his own debts and will at all times keep indemnified the other from all debts and liabilities contracted by her or him.[/FONT]
 
2013 is here, and I entered into it on a bit of an emotional note.

Separation agreement is done, STBX has agreed to it's content. Said it "looked great."

I sat with my draft will in hand, reviewed and revised a few things and will take it to the lawyer who originally did the draft (Real Estate Lawyer - is that ok or should I have the same lawyer who does the sep agreement do the will as well?)

The hunt begins tomorrow for a good lawyer to simply review and revise if necessary the sep. agreement.
 
katc said:
2013 is here, and I entered into it on a bit of an emotional note.

Separation agreement is done, STBX has agreed to it's content. Said it "looked great."

I sat with my draft will in hand, reviewed and revised a few things and will take it to the lawyer who originally did the draft (Real Estate Lawyer - is that ok or should I have the same lawyer who does the sep agreement do the will as well?)

The hunt begins tomorrow for a good lawyer to simply review and revise if necessary the sep. agreement.
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Even though it will cost a bit more, I would find a different lawyer for each area of the law you need to touch on. Family lawyer for the separation agreement, estate lawyer for the will, real estate lawyer to get his name off the house.

Lawyers can be very specialized, and may not know enough outside their fields to do what you are hoping.
 
my family law lawyer handled the SA and the transfer of the property from joint to just me. Didnt have any issues. I will probably be going back to her for the will and for any agreement I need to protect myself if I co-habitate with any one in the future.
 
I happened to find a "one stop shop" type lawyer. Have heard of him before, have spoken to others who have used him and he seems to be good. He's been around a long time.

I called, I quite liked the receptionist who was very knowledgable and took the time to tell me how the "scenario" will likely play out.

She said if I had the agreement done, he will review it, ensure all areas are covered and if all is good, STBX and I can sign it right then and there if there are no changes to be made, thus saving an extra trip. She said it will likely not cost more than $400 - $500. (He charges $400 an hour - OMG!). But will consult first to ensure the fee stays reasonable.

January 18th STBX and I have an appt.

He also does Wills - but given that my Real Estate Lawyer did one up for me back in 2010 in Draft, I may just have him complete the process. Seems like it's a pretty standard will, with a few customizations.

Am feeling much better that this is underway. STBX is good with it as well.

All is right with the world - well, my world :)
 
You seem pumped about this, good for you. Hopefully either one of you doesn't jump into a new relationship anytime soon?



katc said:
I happened to find a "one stop shop" type lawyer. Have heard of him before, have spoken to others who have used him and he seems to be good. He's been around a long time.

I called, I quite liked the receptionist who was very knowledgable and took the time to tell me how the "scenario" will likely play out.

She said if I had the agreement done, he will review it, ensure all areas are covered and if all is good, STBX and I can sign it right then and there if there are no changes to be made, thus saving an extra trip. She said it will likely not cost more than $400 - $500. (He charges $400 an hour - OMG!). But will consult first to ensure the fee stays reasonable.

January 18th STBX and I have an appt.

He also does Wills - but given that my Real Estate Lawyer did one up for me back in 2010 in Draft, I may just have him complete the process. Seems like it's a pretty standard will, with a few customizations.

Am feeling much better that this is underway. STBX is good with it as well.

All is right with the world - well, my world :)
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I have read this thread with much interest katc and I give you a thumbs up for being able to work through this so rationally.

I am curious though, since you mentioned the ex not having a will, whether or not you are intending to file for an actual divorce? You don't need a divorce per say to ensure the validity of your will. A separation agreement will take precedence over the statutory rules pertaining to your will if it addressed in your separation agreement. But to have a divorce effected will certainly alleviate any concern you have.

And yes, technically, if he dies intestate you are entitled to his estate and the actual distribution of his estate would depend on whether or not he has any "issue" (children, family etc.). However, since you will have a separation agreement the above would stand in that the agreement will take precedence over the statutory provisions and you would stand to receive nothing.

Yours is a most interesting situation since you will both continue to live under the same roof etc. If he opts to not have a will drafted and dies intestate my only advice to you would be to stay as far away from any estate issues whatsoever. It would seem to be the "nice thing" to do to assume the role of estate trustee but if he is insolvent then you will not only have an estate headache on your hands, you may well be held liable for continuing to administer his estate costing you financially.

To sum it up, even though you both continue to have an amicable relationship and you have a signed separation agreement, if he dies, stay very far away from assuming any role in administering his estate; there are far too many legal risks in doing so. :D
 
Thanks mom2three!

He's a good guy - isn't one to cause any drama / grief, for that I am most grateful.

We have been able to talk this out like adults - his initial concern was that I was "pulling the rug out from under him", which is not my intent at all.

The separation agreement is done, I wrote it, he looked it over and offered his input. We are taking it, together, to a lawyer on the 18th of January.

I also have my will pretty much done - the two will be a "package", and the agreement will be noted in the will.

Not sure about the divorce - I guess I'll find out more on the 18th. He does not want to divorce, but we really don't have a marriage.

Not sure where it will go from there. I do know that for the time being we will continue to reside under the same roof.

I just need to ensure that my Will and my finances are in order. There is a clause in the agreement that says neither of us is responsible for the other's debt. I'm certain I've not use the correct language, so we'll make certain all the legalities are in order.

Yikes - I hadn't thought of what would happen if he passes and who would take care of his business. He's not close to his family. And he has a 12 yr old daughter from a prior marriage.

I do know that currently I am listed as his beneficiary on his pension and his life insurance (tho' that may change when this separation agreement is done). I would suspect that should he pass without a will - that money would be used to pay his debt and then to provide for his daughter. Not sure who would administer that. Gosh, never really thought about that part.

It is interesting, and very confusing at the same time. It's starting to unfold for me tho', just taking it slow. Most importantly, we're both pretty level headed about it.
 
So this is where I am confused.

Husby doesn't wish to be divorced. Asks why we can't continue to live as we have been - it's working, it's amicable and he holds out hope that things might change.

Things haven't changed in 3 years, I'm pretty doubtful that they will. But I can live as we have been - it works, it's comfortable, and financially it is good for both of us. I'm pretty certain there are alot of marriages out there similar to mine, where separate lives are lived, separate bedrooms are the norm and life moves along swimmingly.

I have the agreement drawn up, and I originally did it as a Separation Agreement, listing things that would indicate that we are living pretty much separate lives.

In my will he is named as my "spouse". The separation agreement speaks to what's mine, what remains mine and what's split if need be. It also speaks to his debt / my debt, etc.

So do I do it as a separation agreement or just an agreement to protect my assets? I guess it really boils down to what "I" want - which is less messy? I'm guessing just the agreement.
 
katc said:
I guess it really boils down to what "I" want - which is less messy? I'm guessing just the agreement.
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It really does boil down to what you want in a situation; however, a divorce and a completely "clean break" would be "less messy" in the long run.
 
Agreed. The only "stickler" is that it wouldn't necessarily be a "clean break" since we both have to co-habitate for awhile.
 
katc said:
Agreed. The only "stickler" is that it wouldn't necessarily be a "clean break" since we both have to co-habitate for awhile.
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"Clean break" in the legal context - so long as you remain legally married, for all intents and purposes he is your "spouse" in matters such as estate administration and things like insurance/benefits.

As for staying under the same roof for a while - roommates/friends do it all the time. You would be co-habitating in the general meaning of the word, but not co-habitating in the Family Law meaning of the word, if that makes sense. The "break" is as "clean" as you want to make it/take it for.

Again, it's ultimately what you want/are comfortable with :)
 
Question...what is happening with the house? Do you guys own the house together? If so, what provisions are set up for that? If you are both continuing to live in the same house and pay down the mortgage, what if one of you decides you want to sell? How is the equity split then? Will it be at the time of separation (which it would state in the SA) or is it at the time one decides they want to sell?

Things are smooth now, but they may not always be smooth and without addressing everything, you may find this coming back to bite you.
 
Berner_Faith - we plan on staying in the home. Neither one of us is in a position to relocate financially.

Yes, we are both contributing towards the mortgage 50/50 and are both on title as "Tenants in Common".

The agreement addresses my initial downpayment - that it is to be returned to me when/if the house is sold or we part ways and one of us keeps it, buys the other out, etc.

Equity is also addressed and is split 50/50 based on the original purchase price, and at the time of physical separation/split (equity being what's left after my initial down payment is deducted from it).

I don't anticipate it getting ugly - he's just not that kind of guy.

As I mentioned earlier, he's amicable, and in agreement and I respect that it's very difficult for him given that he is the one that wishes to continue in the marriage and try and make it work. Not sure how "amicable" I would be if I were in love with someone who wanted to end the relationship.

It's never fun to wound someone's heart, and it's breaking mine knowing I'm doing that to him.
 
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