Financial Question

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Mess, first let me say that I appreciate all of the advice you have given me on this forum, ditto for everyone who has come to my aide in this situation.

I did not once say your comments were "offensive". One comment took me back for a moment.

Our matter is not going to court. I am hopeful we can do it on our own.

I work for a court - I am well versed as to how Trials are run, and how our Justice can be - sadly, I don't work for Family Court.

I believe that fair is fair. I don't take what is not rightfully mine. I would never be in that situation first off. I suppose if that was the fate I chose for myself and the marriage ended, I may have wished I had made wiser choices in life. If I do nothing to contribute, why should I reap the benefits?

If she was contributing to the mortgage then yes, she should get her share.

In my situation - $70k was mine before I ever knew him - is it fair for him to stake a claim for that? I think not. Just as if he had $70k before I came on the scene, I'd be a fool to think that half of it is mine.


I don't want his pension, I don't want his benefits, 'nor do I want his debt 'nor he mine. I simply want what I brought into this marriage and we will spolit 50/50 what took place after the marriage.

I'm not here to be a hard ass - that's not my nature.

I feel sorry for him that our marriage has come to this - we are both to blame. But a marriage takes two - and sadly, my affections are done. I know this hurts him - he still loves me and wants this marriage to work. It kills me that it's come to this, but sadly, it has. And while I can, I need to protect my finances.
 
katc, fair enough. In your original post you made a comment that you regretted rolling the cost of the renovation materials into the current mortgage. That coloured my response.

The worst way to enter negotiations is with bitterness and a postition that you are fighting each other. If you can enter negotions with the spirit of both of you helping each other then you will negotiating positively. That goes for him too.
 
Tayken said:
To this I add... and possibly may have made Mess the target of blame in attempt to make Hawk's personal issues all Mess' fault. This reads to learned contributors to this site no more than the beginning of a distortion campaign possibly by Hawk.

I don't find any of the content that Hawk posts to this forum all that helpful and it appears to be motivated by fear, uncertainty and doubt in my personal opinion.



Good Luck!
Tayken
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So is this thread about Hawk, or Katc's question on financials?
Just curious :rolleyes:

Katc, I completely understand what you are trying to say. If it weren't for the people that fought for what they believe in, our laws and rights would never change. I agree, you should not have to split what you brought into the marriage BEFORE with this man. As it stands now, that is the law though, if you want to fight it and change it, to be honest you have a really good chance, BUT are you willing to take that chance and possibly walk away with less money than you had to begin with because of legal fees? That's a question only you can answer.

On a side note, have you ever tried marriage counseling? You may be surprised to find some feelings re-surface through it.
 
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Mess said:
katc, fair enough. In your original post you made a comment that you regretted rolling the cost of the renovation materials into the current mortgage. That coloured my response.

The worst way to enter negotiations is with bitterness and a postition that you are fighting each other. If you can enter negotions with the spirit of both of you helping each other then you will negotiating positively. That goes for him too.
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Thank you Mess.

I don't want to see him destitute, and I do feel sorry that he is in this situation. He forever complains of his debt but does little to advance himself in getting ahead (expensive golf outings weekly with friends).

I am not a bitch, and don't want to ever be that. But I do (as I have said before) need to protect what I feel is rightfully mine - for my son.

It's amicable, he's agreeable.

I'm the frustrated one because it's up to me do do all the paperwork and figure out the process / steps, etc.
 
madm82 said:
So is this thread about Hawk, or Katc's question on financials?
Just curious :rolleyes:

Katc,

On a side note, have you ever tried marriage counseling? You may be surprised to find some feelings re-surface through it.
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Yes, Madm82, we have tried counselling. Marriage and singly. You can't fix what you don't acknowledge and he doesn't acknowledge that he has issues.
I laid it all out for our counsellor, and I know he wasn't truthful when he had his sessions because of some of the things that were mentioned when we did it jointly.

I am no longer in love with him. I can live with him as a roommate (as we have done for 3 years now), but never as husband and wife.
 
Katc- Kudos to you for trying the counseling. So many people aren't willing to take that step. At least then, you can leave the marriage with a clearer conscience knowing that you tried.
 
We have tried - many, many times. He could never be honest, and given that, would never get to the root of the problem (which I suspect is alot of anger from his first marriage).

Sadly, husby has anger issues (verbally expressed), likes to disrespect me, other people, is critical of my family (likely jealous of our close relationship).

He is the kind of man where everyone is an a'hole but him. It's disheartening.

He has good days and bad - on the good days, I kind of like him, on the bad, not so much. (I suspect he may be depressed / bi-polar?!)
 
katc said:
We have tried - many, many times. He could never be honest, and given that, would never get to the root of the problem (which I suspect is alot of anger from his first marriage).

Sadly, husby has anger issues (verbally expressed), likes to disrespect me, other people, is critical of my family (likely jealous of our close relationship).

He is the kind of man where everyone is an a'hole but him. It's disheartening.

He has good days and bad - on the good days, I kind of like him, on the bad, not so much. (I suspect he may be depressed / bi-polar?!)
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Be very careful where you are going with this argument. You are making allegations on a public message forum about the other party to the matter's mental health and well being yet, you are admitting that you can live under the same roof.

It is ironic that, while being critical of the other party and stating they possibly have a mental illness, has "anger issues", can't be honest, critical but, you are still willing to live under the same roof as the other party in question.

The language of your posting that you used to describe the other party may be evidence of hostility on your part by the courts and others. You may be upset with the other party but, I do caution you on the impact these feelings may have on your settlement of matters with the other party.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Thanks Tayken!

It is only my suspicion - has not been clinically diagnosed.

Because we live in separate areas of the house - I don't have to be party to these random moments.

In other threads I have stated clearly that he is a great guy, would do anything for me, but does have "issues" - don't we all?

There is no hostility. It's all very amicable.

There is no intention to take our situation to court - I am hopeful we can do it ourselves without using the courts.
 
katc said:
Thank you Mess.

I don't want to see him destitute, and I do feel sorry that he is in this situation. He forever complains of his debt but does little to advance himself in getting ahead (expensive golf outings weekly with friends).

I am not a bitch, and don't want to ever be that. But I do (as I have said before) need to protect what I feel is rightfully mine - for my son.

It's amicable, he's agreeable.

I'm the frustrated one because it's up to me do do all the paperwork and figure out the process / steps, etc.
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Dont feel sorry for him, he needs to learn to budget and live within his means. Golf outings every week is not someone who is worried about money. He is doing it to himself, its not your fault or your responsibility. If he was really wanting to get out of debt then he would give up the golf for a while and concentrate on his debts. He is playing you a bit on this, he wants you to feel sorry for him and that way he gets away with his irresponsiblity.

You should just sell the house and walk away. If he has to give up the golf and live in an apartment, its not your fault. I think you also said he makes more then you do so he will be okay.
 
katc said:
Thanks Tayken!

It is only my suspicion - has not been clinically diagnosed.

Because we live in separate areas of the house - I don't have to be party to these random moments.

In other threads I have stated clearly that he is a great guy, would do anything for me, but does have "issues" - don't we all?

There is no hostility. It's all very amicable.

There is no intention to take our situation to court - I am hopeful we can do it ourselves without using the courts.
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I suspected you would respond reasonably like this. You are quickly demonstrating something that many posters to this forum lack which is rational thinking at a time of emotional grief.

I think you will fair well. Also, do note that separation and divorce is one of the major stressors that can have a significant impact on someone. I think you know this already and am probably stating the obvious to you but, it may benefit others reading this public message forum.

Hope is the best thing to have in a matter such as yours. Fear is the worst thing you can have at a time like this...

Like Master Yoda says:

Yoda fears the darkside - YouTube

“Fear is the path to the court room. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to litigation.”

Not trying to make light of the situation you find yourself in but, bring another angle of insight and the reference to Master Yoda is made with no offense to you. It is just a quote that is true to many stressful situations and how they can escalate unnecessarily.

Focus on the good you see in the other party. That will make the whole process a lot easier and hopefully reduce unnecessary conflict.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Thank you, Tayken!

There is good in most people. There is good in my husband. We went off the rails somewhere.

It isn't impossible for me to continue to live with him, 'nor he with me, what is important to me at this time is getting my finances in order, my Will in order, and then I can work on the rest.

One can't predict their own demise and I will feel SO much better knowing that I at least had that in order so that no-one has to try to make sense of it when I'm gone.

It is a very emotional time for me - not the way I wanted to step into 2013 that's for sure.

Thanks again for all of your advice, suggestions, recommendations. I am most appreciative.

Thanks for Master Yoda - love that!
 
standing on the sidelines said:
Dont feel sorry for him, he needs to learn to budget and live within his means. Golf outings every week is not someone who is worried about money. He is doing it to himself, its not your fault or your responsibility. If he was really wanting to get out of debt then he would give up the golf for a while and concentrate on his debts. He is playing you a bit on this, he wants you to feel sorry for him and that way he gets away with his irresponsiblity.

You should just sell the house and walk away. If he has to give up the golf and live in an apartment, its not your fault. I think you also said he makes more then you do so he will be okay.
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SOTS correct me if I am wrong please but, what I think you are suggesting to the OP is to be mindful of the feelings one has at a time like this.

Guilt being a feeling, I think SOTS is to be aware of your feelings but, to be mindful of how you act on them and how they impact you personally. This is not to suggest you should be void of these feelings. But, to be aware of them and the source of them and the impact they have on you personally.

Furthermore OP, don't be ashamed to seek out therapy for yourself at a time like this. Even if you don't think you need it. It can only help you at such a stressful time in your life. I often recommend people consider therapies in the Cognative Sciences and with a psychologist who is educated in Cognative Therapy - especially that practice mindfullness methodologies.

Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your mental health at a time like this as suggested by SOTS possibly is something you shouldn't put aside for the other party. Do what you need to be healthy and happy.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
katc said:
Thank you, Tayken!

There is good in most people. There is good in my husband. We went off the rails somewhere.

It isn't impossible for me to continue to live with him, 'nor he with me, what is important to me at this time is getting my finances in order, my Will in order, and then I can work on the rest.

One can't predict their own demise and I will feel SO much better knowing that I at least had that in order so that no-one has to try to make sense of it when I'm gone.

It is a very emotional time for me - not the way I wanted to step into 2013 that's for sure.

Thanks again for all of your advice, suggestions, recommendations. I am most appreciative.

Thanks for Master Yoda - love that!
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I truly do believe, which those on this site will probably be shocked to read, that you will be ok. Please do realize the rarity of me stating this to any poster on this site. I often don't comment like this but, it is becoming more and more evident that you may become a model citizen for separation and divorce for this forum. Not to say I have high expectations for you as a contributor so please don't feel that way. Everyone has their moments. Perfection is not required to participate on this forum at all nor is it expected.

The honesty you speak with speaks volumes to your probably positive character as a person I suspect.

It is refreshing to say the least to have someone who is so mindful of their emotional state contributing to this site in such a manner.

I always, which many have complained about in the past, sign off stating "Good Luck!". Today, for the first time possibly end this message with...

You are going to be "o.k."!
Tayken
 
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Dont look as it being going into 2013 in a bad way. My marriage ended totally in December of 2010. I felt that the new year was the beginning of my new life. Within one week of me saying it was over he was dating someone and spending weekends at her place (he swears he didnt know her before but.....) I met my bf in March of 2011 and havent looked back. I am happier then I have been in years and he has become my rock. He supported me emotionally thru the buying of the house and my ex finally leaving (he moved in with the 3rd girl he dated after meeting her one day, going on a weeks vacation with her by day three and moved in with her when they got back) Its been great, I have a real man, not one who wants a mommy.

Focus on how much better your life will be.
 
Tayken said:
SOTS correct me if I am wrong please but, what I think you are suggesting to the OP is to be mindful of the feelings one has at a time like this.

Guilt being a feeling, I think SOTS is to be aware of your feelings but, to be mindful of how you act on them and how they impact you personally. This is not to suggest you should be void of these feelings. But, to be aware of them and the source of them and the impact they have on you personally.

Furthermore OP, don't be ashamed to seek out therapy for yourself at a time like this. Even if you don't think you need it. It can only help you at such a stressful time in your life. I often recommend people consider therapies in the Cognative Sciences and with a psychologist who is educated in Cognative Therapy - especially that practice mindfullness methodologies.

Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your mental health at a time like this as suggested by SOTS possibly is something you shouldn't put aside for the other party. Do what you need to be healthy and happy.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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you are once again, right on the money
 
standing on the sidelines said:
you are once again, right on the money
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Thank-you for confirming I really appreciate it. I suspected as much but, your confirmation is appreciated. I suspected you were well versed in mindful techniques of cognitive sciences for quite some time based on your large history of posting and consistent good advice provided to this forum.

I get to use a new one now...

You are "ok"!
Tayken
 
Tayken said:
The honesty you speak with speaks volumes to your probably positive character as a person I suspect.

It is refreshing to say the least to have someone who is so mindful of their emotional state contributing to this site in such a manner.

I always, which many have complained about in the past, sign off stating "Good Luck!". Today, for the first time possibly end this message with...

You are going to be "o.k."!
Tayken
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Tayken - thank you for the tears that sit in my eyes :) You have touched my heart.

I know nothing about doing any of this, except that I want there to be no hate in all of this.

I want things to remain amicable - why fight? There is no point. Both husby and I have bruised hearts - why add to that?

I suspect it is so much more profound for him because he still has hope - where I have none. That can't be easy for him.

Because of you, and others - I can approach this with far more knowledge than before I found this forum.

Thank you for that.
 
katc said:
I like this Tayken person!
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Thank-you for the feedback and complement. I really appreciate it. The success of your separation and eventual divorce is clearly in the right, good and capable hands of the most important person in all this: yours.

If you continue to be as mindful of your emotions as you demonstrate on this forum, 2013 as recommended by SOTS (who is an incredibly learned contributor to this forum BTW) will be a great one.

You are going to be "ok" and you probably will have a happy new year too!
Tayken
 
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