Financial disclosure and Child support

[trueblue22]

To go from $150,000 a year to $50,000 and the resulting debt that has been referred to, it is a bad decision.

It has also bee four years of the ex requesting she move. He has finally decided to pull the trigger on legal action.


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You are right. He did request the MH be sold a few weeks after he left but he didn't really pursue it so I thought everything would be okay since he didn't initiate formal court proceedings but this isn't considered "urgent" court matter is it? My business isn't doing that well now because of COVID19 but my ex seems fairly busy since it's year end.

 

[trueblue22]

More than likely it means because you own the business the entire worth is attributed to you and he is simply an employee who you pay. You could fire him and keep the money you pay him.


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I have other employees too but he is the only other one that is full time besides me. My new partner is also in a lot of debt so he can't financially help me either. He also experienced a really bad divorce and told me his ex wife took the MH home from him (and full custody of their 2 sons) so he also encouraged me to try and keep the house since that's the most valuable asset I have access to. If my new partner moves in with me can my ex husband kick him out?

 

[StillPaying]

To go from $150,000 a year to $50,000 and the resulting debt that has been referred to, it is a bad decision.

What if the business made millions, yet she only wants to pay herself 50k. It's all relative. Paying herself plus bf and expenses seems like it's doing well.

It has also bee four years of the ex requesting she move. He has finally decided to pull the trigger on legal action.

Ex has been paying bills instead of spousal for 4 years. Normally OP would be responsible for expenses plus occupational rent, but I don't think that'll be the case here. OP is probably better off selling now and taking the spousal money rather than free rent a few more years.

 

[rockscan]

What if the business made millions, yet she only wants to pay herself 50k. It's all relative. Paying herself plus bf and expenses seems like it's doing well.



Ex has been paying bills instead of spousal for 4 years. Normally OP would be responsible for expenses plus occupational rent, but I don't think that'll be the case here. OP is probably better off selling now and taking the spousal money rather than free rent a few more years.

If she were a man and quit his well paying job to open his own business that wasn’t making enough money to pay him a relevant income and had as much debt as OP alludes to, he would be eviscerated by the courts.

As it stands, OP has had a full expense paid lifestyle with a home for four years which allowed her to make these decisions. Now the time has come to deal with something that should have been dealt with before. She may not even be entitled to spousal support and since it sounds like they have off set, how would you feel if your offset amount went from 150 a year to 50 or less?

Not to mention that if her business is bringing in a significantly higher amount of income (not all self employed people have expenses taken off) then she is even more screwed on paper.


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[StillPaying]

If she were a man and quit his well paying job to open his own business that wasn�t making enough money to pay him a relevant income and had as much debt as OP alludes to, he would be eviscerated by the courts.

What makes you think she won't? This is why her ex will get full disclosure. You're treating her salary as the whole business income. We don't know what it is, but seems to be more than the 150k. What we do know is she was hoping to hide herself from the business, pays herself less, bf full salary and expenses, and she doesn't feel the need to pay herself more. She'll definitely be imputed income in court.

As it stands, OP has had a full expense paid lifestyle with a home for four years which allowed her to make these decisions. Now the time has come to deal with something that should have been dealt with before. She may not even be entitled to spousal support and since it sounds like they have off set, how would you feel if your offset amount went from 150 a year to 50 or less?

Lawyer needed, but it sounds like both sides agreed to spousal entitlement. Whether he pays her or the bills directly, it's irrelevant.
Obviously she'll be imputed; just don't understand the hype on getting her to close up shop.

 

[trueblue22]

During my marriage my ex paid for a nanny so I could work full time. Can this be used against me for spousal support entitlement? I didn't even take mat leave after my second child was born. Because I have my own business now I can spend more time with the kids but my business is seasonal. I don't have work for about 4 months of the year from mid Dec to mid March. Can my ex force me to work during my off/slow season?

 

[trueblue22]

I'm still not sure how retroactive spousal and child support get calculated. I think I will me asking for this as a starting point.

 

[rockscan]

During my marriage my ex paid for a nanny so I could work full time. Can this be used against me for spousal support entitlement? I didn't even take mat leave after my second child was born. Because I have my own business now I can spend more time with the kids but my business is seasonal. I don't have work for about 4 months of the year from mid Dec to mid March. Can my ex force me to work during my off/slow season?

So your career was not impacted by his career then that entitlement is gone.

Was your job before your business full time all year? Then he can argue to impute an income to you. It could go two ways. Either he has an income imputed at what you were earning or an income based on your business earnings. Your lawyer will have a better idea on that.

As for asking for retroactive, you should probably ask your lawyer to tell you mid level spousal entitlement at his income and child support amounts that are offset at your income of $150,000. Calculate everything he paid in the four years—all household expenses plus the support amounts. From there compare the two numbers. It could be that he paid the right amount or he paid more. Your best bet would be to determine this number before putting anything forward because he would have known this from his lawyer.

You should also ask your lawyer what length of time you would have qualified for spousal should your have split fully four years ago. You may have only been entitled to five years and it might be hard to argue changing this as you have had four to become independent and have not.

All of these are important details to review on your own and then discuss with your lawyer. A lawyer always gets paid so they will fight for you fully but at a high cost. If you walk in there with no knowledge then you end up screwing yourself.


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[StillPaying]

You are following an agreement, so retroactive is unlikely.

Whether you're imputed 50k or 150k, you'll either receive 12k or 9k a month in support. Stop wasting time and listen to your lawyer.

 

[trueblue22]

So your career was not impacted by his career then that entitlement is gone.

Was your job before your business full time all year? Then he can argue to impute an income to you. It could go two ways. Either he has an income imputed at what you were earning or an income based on your business earnings. Your lawyer will have a better idea on that.

My job before separation was full time. Officially I was "let go" without cause so I didn't quit but my ex (we were still on better terms then) knew that I was in negotiations with my employer at the time to leave.

As for asking for retroactive, you should probably ask your lawyer to tell you mid level spousal entitlement at his income and child support amounts that are offset at your income of $150,000. Calculate everything he paid in the four years�all household expenses plus the support amounts. From there compare the two numbers. It could be that he paid the right amount or he paid more. Your best bet would be to determine this number before putting anything forward because he would have known this from his lawyer.

All the money I received is indirect (him paying the mortgage/bills/repairs) and a few thousand dollars via etransfer every month but we have no formal agreement. Does this mean the courts will consider he only paid me child support and no spousal support?

You should also ask your lawyer what length of time you would have qualified for spousal should your have split fully four years ago. You may have only been entitled to five years and it might be hard to argue changing this as you have had four to become independent and have not.

My original lawyer told me my best case scenario for spousal support would be until my youngest child turns 18 or finishes post secondary but I am considered a "medium term marriage" since it lasted only 10 years but I was under the impression he wanted to be very aggressive and I was scared that would make my ex's lawyer get aggressive

All of these are important details to review on your own and then discuss with your lawyer. A lawyer always gets paid so they will fight for you fully but at a high cost. If you walk in there with no knowledge then you end up screwing yourself.


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I thought if I couldn't support myself at the same standard of living my ex would need to maintain the lifestyle?

 

[Janus]

I thought if I couldn't support myself at the same standard of living my ex would need to maintain the lifestyle?

Think of divorce of splitting the gains and losses from a marriage. Some hypotheticals to illustrate:

Case 1

The wife would have been earning $120k per year, but because she dropped out of the workforce to raise the kids, she is only earning $40k per year. There is a loss of 80k per year from this mutual decision that was made by both the wife and the husband. It is not fair for the wife to take the entire amount of that loss, and so spousal support is ordered to share the loss between the two.

Note: Most decisions taken during a marriage are mutual, even unilateral decisions. If your spouse is making a bad decision, get divorced quickly.


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Case 2

The husband earns $250k per year. However, if the husband had helped to raise the child instead of flying all over the world for business, he would have only been earning about $150k per year. This extra 100k in income every year (that the husband can earn for the rest of his life) is an asset, and a gain from the marriage. This asset needs to be split, so spousal support is ordered to split the asset that is the income stream.

***************

Case 3

Husband and wife both earn 100k. Husband gets sick and can no longer work, so his income drops to 20k. While nobody was to blame here, the loss occurred during the marriage, and needs to be split. Spousal support is ordered to share the loss between the two.



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Note, in all these cases, the person with less income usually is not fully compensated. If your income is $80k lower for life, and you have 25 years of working life left, you are going to get much less than $2million in spousal support. It was more the concept that I was explaining, not the numbers.

In your particular situation, you are probably more like Case 4:

Case 4

Husband earns a lot more than the wife. A lot lot more. Spousal support might be ordered because the wife has "need". It probably won't be forever, and it can easily be stopped. Expect lots of court cases in the near future

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The problem here is that you gave up a good income, and your current income is a bit nebulous. You might be hard-pressed to show need.

 

[trueblue22]

You are following an agreement, so retroactive is unlikely.

Whether you're imputed 50k or 150k, you'll either receive 12k or 9k a month in support. Stop wasting time and listen to your lawyer.

There is no agreement regarding finances just for a schedule for the kids. With no agreement isn't all the money he pays for bills, etc considered only child support? Does that mean my ex hasn't been paying me any spousal support? Does that mean retroactive is more likely if that's the case? But does that also mean I will need to reimburse him for 4 years of section 7 expenses?

 

[trueblue22]

Think of divorce of splitting the gains and losses from a marriage. Some hypotheticals to illustrate:

Case 1

The wife would have been earning $120k per year, but because she dropped out of the workforce to raise the kids, she is only earning $40k per year. There is a loss of 80k per year from this mutual decision that was made by both the wife and the husband. It is not fair for the wife to take the entire amount of that loss, and so spousal support is ordered to share the loss between the two.

Note: Most decisions taken during a marriage are mutual, even unilateral decisions. If your spouse is making a bad decision, get divorced quickly.


******************

Case 2

The husband earns $250k per year. However, if the husband had helped to raise the child instead of flying all over the world for business, he would have only been earning about $150k per year. This extra 100k in income every year (that the husband can earn for the rest of his life) is an asset, and a gain from the marriage. This asset needs to be split, so spousal support is ordered to split the asset that is the income stream.

***************

Case 3

Husband and wife both earn 100k. Husband gets sick and can no longer work, so his income drops to 20k. While nobody was to blame here, the loss occurred during the marriage, and needs to be split. Spousal support is ordered to share the loss between the two.



**************


Note, in all these cases, the person with less income usually is not fully compensated. If your income is $80k lower for life, and you have 25 years of working life left, you are going to get much less than $2million in spousal support. It was more the concept that I was explaining, not the numbers.

In your particular situation, you are probably more like Case 4:

Case 4

Husband earns a lot more than the wife. A lot lot more. Spousal support might be ordered because the wife has "need". It probably won't be forever, and it can easily be stopped. Expect lots of court cases in the near future

*****************

The problem here is that you gave up a good income, and your current income is a bit nebulous. You might be hard-pressed to show need.

After paying out my employees including my ex boyfriend their salaries there isn't much left. My new business was just picking up steam at the end of 2019 but then the pandemic happened so I am now struggling. Does it matter I will be struggling? I read that spousal support if my ex makes more than 150k is more "flexible" so how reliable are the free spousal support calculators?

 

[rockscan]

Few points you need to keep in mind:

1. It doesnt matter if your ex paid you directly or the expenses. He still paid a certain amount monthly and that can be applied to what he should have paid.

2. You direct your lawyer, not the other way around. The more aggressive your lawyer the less likely the settlement and the more money you end up spending.

3. You need to get your details and your shit straight. You just posted ex boyfriend but said he was your boyfriend.

4. You need a plan b and c. Your ex is trying to cut the cord and he has a right to do that. You have to prepare yourself for the worst case scenario in case it happens.


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[Berner_Faith]

There is no agreement regarding finances just for a schedule for the kids. With no agreement isn't all the money he pays for bills, etc considered only child support? Does that mean my ex hasn't been paying me any spousal support? Does that mean retroactive is more likely if that's the case? But does that also mean I will need to reimburse him for 4 years of section 7 expenses?

There is a lot I want to say about this thread but it’s been addressed by others, but this point here... he would only have to pay X amount in Child Support... if he paid more then it would go towards Spousal Support... if you’re trying to say he owes you full SS because all his payments were for CS, then you’d have to pay him back for that overpayment. You don’t get full SS and more than your share of CS...

You should probably hire and listen to a lawyer because you’re a mess and not really listening to the advice here


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[trueblue22]

Few points you need to keep in mind:

1. It doesnt matter if your ex paid you directly or the expenses. He still paid a certain amount monthly and that can be applied to what he should have paid.

2. You direct your lawyer, not the other way around. The more aggressive your lawyer the less likely the settlement and the more money you end up spending.

3. You need to get your details and your shit straight. You just posted ex boyfriend but said he was your boyfriend.

4. You need a plan b and c. Your ex is trying to cut the cord and he has a right to do that. You have to prepare yourself for the worst case scenario in case it happens.


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1. What about taxes? I know that spousal support means I need to pay taxes - so do I get dinged on 4 years of support that if he overpaid?

2. I scheduled for a consult with some lawyers. They all seem very interested since I told them my ex makes 500k+ a year as an accountant.

3. Sorry I think I was thinking about my ex. My boyfriend is still with the company. My ex knows minimal information about the company and keeps asking for detailed ledgers but since he's an accountant I feel like he would try to misinterpret the data to benefit him.

4. Is my worst case scenario no more spousal support and just child support?

 

[trueblue22]

There is a lot I want to say about this thread but it�s been addressed by others, but this point here... he would only have to pay X amount in Child Support... if he paid more then it would go towards Spousal Support... if you�re trying to say he owes you full SS because all his payments were for CS, then you�d have to pay him back for that overpayment. You don�t get full SS and more than your share of CS...

You should probably hire and listen to a lawyer because you�re a mess and not really listening to the advice here


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What if he was underpaying spousal and child support? Does that mean I can request a retroactive "top up"?

 

[rockscan]

1. What about taxes? I know that spousal support means I need to pay taxes - so do I get dinged on 4 years of support that if he overpaid?

No because he wasnt paying spousal so you didnt have to claim it.

2. I scheduled for a consult with some lawyers. They all seem very interested since I told them my ex makes 500k+ a year as an accountant.

Of course they are. They want a long drawn out fight that earns them lots of money. Be wary of a lawyer who blows smoke up your ass. They still get paid whether or not you get anything.

3. Sorry I think I was thinking about my ex. My boyfriend is still with the company. My ex knows minimal information about the company and keeps asking for detailed ledgers but since he's an accountant I feel like he would try to misinterpret the data to benefit him.

He has a right to the financials. Regardless of what the “minimal information” is, you have a business, it earns a certain amount, that can be applied as your income to calculate support both child and spousal. Hiding info or refusing it makes you look bad and only escalates the increased payments to your lawyer. Hand over the info.

4. Is my worst case scenario no more spousal support and just child support?

Yes and sale of matrimonial home it seems.


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[rockscan]

What if he was underpaying spousal and child support? Does that mean I can request a retroactive "top up"?

No because you were following an agreement.

Look, you are digging a deeper hole for yourself by trying to avoid the inevitable. Your ex isnt your personal bank account who has to give you what you want. Plus child support is for the kids not to subsidize your income. You really need to take a hard look at your life and also the law. You really should go looking through some cases on canlii.org. See where the decisions fell in cases similar to yours. Hand him over you financial disclosure, do your math on what he paid vs what he owed, figure what the amount of spousal and timeline you were entitled to, figure out your share of the home and then make a deal. The longer you drag this out the more you lose.


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[Berner_Faith]

No because you were following an agreement.

Look, you are digging a deeper hole for yourself by trying to avoid the inevitable. Your ex isnt your personal bank account who has to give you what you want. Plus child support is for the kids not to subsidize your income. You really need to take a hard look at your life and also the law. You really should go looking through some cases on canlii.org. See where the decisions fell in cases similar to yours. Hand him over you financial disclosure, do your math on what he paid vs what he owed, figure what the amount of spousal and timeline you were entitled to, figure out your share of the home and then make a deal. The longer you drag this out the more you lose.


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Wish there was “like” buttons


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