Eyeglasses - Extraordinary or Special Expense?

1

#1StepMom

New member
Just wondering if children's eyeglasses are considered a special or extraordinary expense... or if they can reasonably be covered by child support.

From what I know/read, I think the court considers them an extraordinary expense. However hubby dearest is putting up his "Isn't ANYTHING covered by child support?!!" fight.

Can anyone help resolve our issue? (Who's wrong, who's right?)
 
I believe you are correct to assume that this is an extra ordinary expense to be covered proportionate to income after any insurance coverage has been applied
 
I believe it is a special expense and paid for as FL_Needs_To_Change has said.

If it was sole custody and a normal expense then the receiver of the CS woud pay 100%.

I have a question though. If it was shared custody (50/50 to 60/40) and a normal expense (not a special expense), does everyone agree that the cost would be split 50/50 regardless of the CS amounts and proportional income of the parents?
 
billm said:
I have a question though. If it was shared custody (50/50 to 60/40) and a normal expense (not a special expense), does everyone agree that the cost would be split 50/50 regardless of the CS amounts and proportional income of the parents?
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I believe the proportionate to income rule would apply in any case if it was an extra-ordinary expense.
If it was deemed a normal expense of child raising, I think that it would be included in the CS payment regardless of the visitation schedule. It would be part of all other assumed "normal" child raising expenses which are covered with the CS payment
 
The kid needs glasses. Pay for half. If his mother isn't willing to pay her share, then pay all of it. The kid needs glasses.

I guess that's how we always dealt with things.
 
paris said:
The kid needs glasses. Pay for half. If his mother isn't willing to pay her share, then pay all of it. The kid needs glasses. I guess that's how we always dealt with things.
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And that's how we deal with things too. Even though it seems kind of ridiculous that we're paying child support to provide every-day necessities for the bio-mom's home AND for our home (full wardrobe, bath needs, fully furnished room with toys, educational games/supplies, sporting equipment, etc.) Heck, my stepson has more things at our house than he has at his mom's... and she's receiving child support (and living with her grandparents, so not having to pay for housing costs either). It's makes us quite angry to be paying TWICE (or double) for the child. But, that seems to be the reality of stepfamily life and being the non-custodial parent. :o
 
Depends on her income and CS received

Depends on her income and CS received

Except from the guidelines:

1.1) For the purposes of paragraphs (1)(d) and (f), the term “extraordinary expenses” means
(a) expenses that exceed those that the spouse requesting an amount for the extraordinary expenses can reasonably cover, taking into account that spouse’s income and the amount that the spouse would receive under the applicable table........etc. etc.

If she can reasonably cover the glasses, given her income and the CS she receives, then they are NOT extra-ordinary, and you shouldn't have to cough up again!
 
got2bkid said:
Except from the guidelines:

1.1) For the purposes of paragraphs (1)(d) and (f), the term “extraordinary expenses” means
(a) expenses that exceed those that the spouse requesting an amount for the extraordinary expenses can reasonably cover, taking into account that spouse’s income and the amount that the spouse would receive under the applicable table........etc. etc.

If she can reasonably cover the glasses, given her income and the CS she receives, then they are NOT extra-ordinary, and you shouldn't have to cough up again!
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Let's say she makes $35,000 per year and receives $430 in CS monthly. Can she reasonably cover that cost? (She doesn't pay rent or have a mortgage, just lives with family.) I think she can reasonably cover the eyeglass expense. But that's just me (and hubby)! :)
 
Yes, she can pay for it herself

Yes, she can pay for it herself

There is absolutely no way in her situation eye glasses are "extra-ordinary". Child support was intended to cover all regular costs and the occasional non-regular cost. "Extra-ordinary" costs are above and beyond what a normal childhood entails, like horseback riding or private school, or expensive braces.

Given the number of kids that need glasses, I certainly don't see this as "exta-ordinary" especially given they are usually around $200.
Don't let people guilt you into paying, just say "NO", you have done enough! Let her take you to court over it if she wants to. If you don't stop it at some point it will just get worse and worse. Of course this is just my opinion!!!! (after looking at a lot of cases!)
 
FL_Needs_To_Change said:
I believe the proportionate to income rule would apply in any case if it was an extra-ordinary expense.
If it was deemed a normal expense of child raising, I think that it would be included in the CS payment regardless of the visitation schedule. It would be part of all other assumed "normal" child raising expenses which are covered with the CS payment
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FL_Needs_To_Change (and others), I want to ask my question again - For the purpose of this question lets say that eyeglasses are a 'normal' expense, like clothing, etc and would be covered by the CS payment. But in a 50/50 custody situation (which #1StepMom is not in, but I am curious about 50/50 situation) the eyeglasses, which unlike clothing, the child needs only one pair, to be used at both homes, should be split 50/50. This is because the CS payment from one parent to the other has already equalized the two households money available for normal expenses, so for this single normal expense to be used by the child in both homes, it is fair that both pay half. Does anyone agree or disagree with that? It seems clear to me, I would like some opinions though.

Thanks
 
Personally, I think in 50/50 situations, each parent should buy a pair for their own home, or split the cost of a 2-for-1 offer. This way, the child will have eyeglasses at each house in case they forget or lose a pair. (Just what makes sense to me.)

We are probably going to purchase a pair for our house (nothing fancy) as my stepson's mom has a history of blaming us for any of the child's broken/ruined/lost belongings and demands monetary compensation. It is for that reason that, even though my stepson is with us only every-other-weekend, we still provide a full wardrobe (from underwear to snowsuits), fully furnished bedroom, toys, sporting equipment, etc. for him. You'd be surprised at how often she'd "notice a rip or a stain" when we tried sharing clothes when the child was an infant. Not to mention the lack of clothing and hideous clothing she'd send the child with! (At one point I was convinced she shopped at the dollar store for clothing to send with the child to our house!)

Anyhow, that's just my two cents based on my experience! ;-)
 
#1StepMom said:
Personally, I think in 50/50 situations, each parent should buy a pair for their own home, or split the cost of a 2-for-1 offer. This way, the child will have eyeglasses at each house in case they forget or lose a pair. (Just what makes sense to me.)
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I'm going to go ahead and guess that you don't wear glasses. :) If someone's nearsighted, they need their glasses all the time. Making a kid take off one pair and then put on another doesn't make any sense to me.

Most kids don't need glasses, so that makes it an extraordinary expense and should be shared 50/50 or by the comparative income fraction. I think it's like braces, though cheaper. When the kid gets older he'll want contacts, and will still need glasses. The contacts can be pricey and the solution will cost a fair bit too, so I'd bank on $4-500 per year in eye wear costs. In my mind, this should be a shared cost.
 
Shafted and Piston said:
I'm going to go ahead and guess that you don't wear glasses. :) If someone's nearsighted, they need their glasses all the time. Making a kid take off one pair and then put on another doesn't make any sense to me.
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Good guess... but an incorrect one. ;)

I do wear glasses. Not all the time, but most of the time. And I have two pairs. My main pair, and another pair in the glove compartment of my car in case I accidently leave my glasses at work/home.

I also never suggested that the kid take one pair off then go without until they arrive at their other house and put the pair they have there on.

All I suggested was that it would be a good idea that there be an extra pair at each home, in case the main pair get forgotten, lost, broken, stolen, whatever the case may be. This way, the child will have a replacement pair on hand and will not have to go without glasses.

I hope this has made my intentions somewhat clearer.
 
Well, the little guy finally got his glasses ordered!

Two pairs came up to $280. The bio-mom sent us an invoice w/receipt along with the prescription as confirmation that the glasses have been purchased. She did not, however, ask for any sort of reimbursement. This struck us as a little odd, but we're not yet rejoicing as I have a feeling that we'll soon be getting an email asking "where's my cheque?"

I reviewed the child support guidelines and the clauses pertaining to special and extraordinary expenses, and yet I'm still unsure whether this would be considered such an expense.

The guidelines specifically state:

Special or extraordinary expenses
7. (1) In an order for the support of a child, the court may, on the request of either parent or spouse or of an applicant under section 33 of the Act, provide for an amount to cover all or any portion of the following expenses, which expenses may be estimated, taking into account the necessity of the expense in relation to the child’s best interests and the reasonableness of the expense in relation to the means of the parents or spouses and those of the child and to the spending pattern of the parents or spouses in respect of the child during cohabitation:
(a) child care expenses incurred as a result of the custodial parent’s employment, illness, disability or education or training for employment;
(b) that portion of the medical and dental insurance premiums attributable to the child;
(c) health-related expenses that exceed insurance reimbursement by at least $100 annually, including orthodontic treatment, professional counselling provided by a psychologist, social worker, psychiatrist or any other person, physiotherapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, prescription drugs, hearing aids, glasses and contact lenses;
(d) extraordinary expenses for primary or secondary school education or for any other educational programs that meet the child’s particular needs;
(e) expenses for post-secondary education; and
(f) extraordinary expenses for extracurricular activities. O. Reg. 391/97, s. 7 (1); O. Reg. 446/01, s. 2.

Definition, “extraordinary expenses”
(1.1) For the purposes of clauses (1) (d) and (f),
“extraordinary expenses” means
(a) expenses that exceed those that the parent or spouse requesting an amount for the extraordinary expenses can reasonably cover, taking into account that parent’s or spouse’s income and the amount that the parent or spouse would receive under the applicable table or, where the court has determined that the table amount is inappropriate, the amount that the court has otherwise determined is appropriate, or
(b) where clause (a) is not applicable, expenses that the court considers are extraordinary taking into account,
(i) the amount of the expense in relation to the income of the parent or spouse requesting the amount, including the amount that the parent or spouse would receive under the applicable table or, where the court has determined that the table amount is inappropriate, the amount that the court has otherwise determined is appropriate,
(ii) the nature and number of the educational programs and extracurricular activities,
(iii) any special needs and talents of the child,
(iv) the overall cost of the programs and activities, and
(v) any other similar factors that the court considers relevant. O. Reg. 102/06, s. 1.

I highlighted relevent material in blue.

Now, for a parent making at minimum $35,000 per year and receiving $420 in CS monthly, would $280 in eyeglasses be considered "extraordinary?"
 
Do you have an agreement in place on how to deal with extraordinary expenses? My partner and his ex have one in place that states they will agree to share in agreed upon special and extraordinary expenses based upon their proportional share.

It has saved him the hassle of needing to fight with the ex (who does also like to send the kids in terrible clothes to our house and likes to try and get every penny out of us she can) every time she wants us to pay for water babies swimming lessons, or operation wobbly legs skating lessons, or hockey helmets or the repair of her fridge because she wanted a water dispenser etc..... People can ask for the sun, but our lawyer told us this was the best way. That way, everyone had to agree it was a special expense before the expense could be charged to either party. Otherwise, it is just one persons decision.

As someone who wore glasses for many years (pre laser surgery), $280 is a bargain for 2 pairs of glasses, and she should be satisfied with that as it's not likely they will be replaced soon than a year or two down the road (and then maybe just new lenses right). $23 per month for a year seems a reasonable expense for the kid that should be expected by her.
 
Thanks Momof3. But it's been "resolved." As in... I added my stepson to my health benefit plan which covers eyeglasses every 2 years.
 
Doesn't Bio-Mom have some sort of health benefit plan? IMO that should be mandatory for both sides....it also effectively reduces the cost to 0. (most of the time you can cross bill those kinds of things)
 
If it was someone working at say Tim Hortons, and they had to buy their own plan, they would pay much more to the insurance company than they could ever bill. It wouldn't reduce the cost to 0, they are still paying, and they are paying more for the insurance than for the glasses.

It's not nearly break even, even if you submit claims for every possible thing. The plans are set up so the insurance company makes money after all.

Where your idea is important is if you get someone who is irresponsible, won't pay for the necessities, and won't set aside money for emergencies. Then it certainly makes sense to require a plan, but it still isn't cost effective.
 
I would look at it like this...the kids are protected if anything ever happens to one of the parent's or their jobs.

Also having 2 benefit plans to draw upon gives you a greater range of options. (Even using glasses as an example, MOST plans only allow for one expense every 2 years....if you have two benefit plans, you can "trade off" each year...I've worn glasses for 24 years...when you are dealing with a younger child, a 2 year difference can result in a HUGE change in the prescription).

There are innumerable health factors that can result in needing a yearly checkup and sometimes a yearly change in prescription.

Also when you look at things like ortho work, which run into the 1000's of dollars....having access to two plans is helpful beyond words.

It's something that from what I've seen, heard and experienced, makes more sense. It takes a lot of the headache out of arguing over who covers what. Does it cost more? Almost always. Does the benefit outweigh the gain? For me, you bet. (Well assuming I could get my ex off her butt and into a job it would...)
 
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