Experience with Justice System RANT

[Pursuinghappiness]

lol Soccermom. I'd advise you to hit ignore on the women-hating trolls on this forum.

You'll figure out quickly enough who they are. They have nothing useful to impart and generally try to get much lacking female-attention by saying idiotic things in an attempt to rile you up.

Its a common theme with men who spend their lives being rejected by women...they're bitter, angry little dudes (stress on the "little"...LOL).

 

[FightingForFamily]

I'll have you know in the weeks following the assault my ex was on a dating site sending multiple messages a day, hosting hot tub parties and attending cottage parties. All on facebook for all to see (the parties not the dating...I heard that first-hand from a mutual friend).

This DEFINITELY sounds someone's life is melting down, as this is far from normal behaviour. I would guess he is trying to find ways to feel good to help cope with the stress he is under. It's not a good way to do it, but it's understandable.

I don't want to see him fry, I just wanted it to be fair.

This is a nice statement and a good sentiment... repeat it to yourself every day. Unfortunately what constitutes "fair" between two people separating is not always straight-forward to determine.

Anyways, I definitely agree with Tayken. This forum is pretty bad at giving emotional support as we all have different perspectives and some of us will play devil's advocate or simply try and see the situation from both people's perspectives rather than simply telling someone what they want to hear.

I am not attacking anyone... A very wise man once said, "The truth resists simplicity".

I feel bad for your situation and I can see how the domestic violence, restraining orders, police involvement and potential criminal trial will make something terrible (separation/divorce) much more complicated.

Make sure you are getting counseling and support from the appropriate people, and we're here to give our perspectives on things from a family law perspective.

 

[SoccerMom73]

Thanks Tayken for your advice on the medical professional but I've been in counseling since the assault and will continue to do so moving forward. The counselor I've seen has been very supportive and so far hasn't suggested an asylum so I think I'm handling things ok. She hasn't mentioned anything so far about mental health issues but she does think I'm getting dicked around on a multitude of levels by both the criminal and family sides. So no worries, I asked for help right from the get-go.

I'm unsure then, Tayken, why there is a domestic violence thread if people shouldn't be speaking about their experiences. Isn't that the point? I initially posted about this to 'rant' about my frustration with the criminal side of things. Is that not allowed? Do I automatically suffer from mental health issues because I'm frustrated with my experiences?

And HammerDad, you are correct, I should have been more assertive with my words with the officer. I do take responsibility for that. Problem is when you've been beaten physically (and verbally) it affects your self-esteem and the last thing I felt I should be doing is challenging a police officer. I was a mess and I thought maybe I had misunderstood VCU but you're right I should have been more assertive and the outcome might have been different.

 

[FightingForFamily]

It bears repeating, what plans does your STBX have for time with his kids? Has he asked? Have you offered? What's going on with them?

 

[SoccerMom73]

lol Soccermom. I'd advise you to hit ignore on the women-hating trolls on this forum.

You'll figure out quickly enough who they are. They have nothing useful to impart and generally try to get much lacking female-attention by saying idiotic things in an attempt to rile you up.

Its a common theme with men who spend their lives being rejected by women...they're bitter, angry little dudes (stress on the "little"...LOL).

Ah, thank you pursuinghappiness, I appreciate this response muchly. And yes, I'm figuring out pretty quickly who they are. Thanks again

 

[SoccerMom73]

No, Tayken, I still don't like the conflict. I'm just trying to stand up for myself since I've had my share of being bullied Trying something new I suppose....

 

[Qrious]

lol Soccermom. I'd advise you to hit ignore on the women-hating trolls on this forum.

You'll figure out quickly enough who they are. They have nothing useful to impart and generally try to get much lacking female-attention by saying idiotic things in an attempt to rile you up.

Its a common theme with men who spend their lives being rejected by women...they're bitter, angry little dudes (stress on the "little"...LOL).

Hahahahahhahahahahahaha! LOVE IT!!

 

[SoccerMom73]

It bears repeating, what plans does your STBX have for time with his kids? Has he asked? Have you offered? What's going on with them?

Basically, he didn't try to initiate any parent time for about a month and a half since he stated he didn't know he could. Supervised visitation started once/weekly in Sept 2012 and has continued until this time. There was a period of time in Oct 2012 where he disappeared for a few weeks. There have also been a few weekends where he just didn't call. And he has cut a few of his visits short to attend bbq's and parties. But other than that has been fairly consistent with his visits.

Financially he didn't provide any support until it was part of the order in April 2013. He's paying less than guidelines currently. He did deposit a blank check in Oct 2012 though and take out $100 putting our only joint account in the negative. He refuses to buy a car seat to transport his daughter so we use mine each time his step-mom picks up his daughter. I provide all necessities (diapers, wipes, clothes etc).

I have never denied him parent time, ever, though he is falsely making allegations that I have. Through phone records I've proven them false. In fact he has often called less than 24 hrs to make arrangments yet he is always given his time even though that's not part of the agreement.

 

[Mess]

I don't have anger issues, slughead10. But I do think I have a right to be angry given my experience and the struggles I've had to face. I've come to this forum to get objective advice and look for opinions. I'm trying to keep an open mind. But yes, I'm frustrated...and tired. Comments like yours are rude and uncalled for.

I thought slughead was being extremely reasonable and spoke fairly.

You've come to the forum and not received the answers you wanted to receive. You are now being very defensive.

When you go to court you will be challenged on all of your assertions. Get used to it. If there is information relevant to a particular statement or claim, you have to include it. Yes, you have to explain yourself.

If you think that your ex's anger issues and the assault have anything to do with your family law case, then you have to show it. No one, including a judge, is going to assume a connection.

 

[Tayken]

Thanks Tayken for your advice on the medical professional but I've been in counseling since the assault and will continue to do so moving forward.

I truly hope this medical professional is at minimum a licensed psychologist/psychiatrist whom is trained specifically in the matter of providing emotional support to victims of intimate partner abuse. The emotional support you need from a professional shouldn't be given in my opinion by a social worker. But, that is just my opinion.

The counselor I've seen has been very supportive and so far hasn't suggested an asylum so I think I'm handling things ok.

Hopefully they are trained in cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT) or dialectical behaviour therapy (DBT) psychotherapy treatment.

She hasn't mentioned anything so far about mental health issues but she does think I'm getting dicked around on a multitude of levels by both the criminal and family sides. So no worries, I asked for help right from the get-go.

I am personally surprised that a mental health worker would comment as such about legal matters. They are not qualified to make legal recommendations and should be focusing on helping you develop coping strategies and skills for your mental health needs. This is because they could run the risk of transference with their clients.

I'm unsure then, Tayken, why there is a domestic violence thread if people shouldn't be speaking about their experiences.

I am not suggesting that you should not be or what the intent of this category of postings is for. If you are looking for objective perspectives on the elements of Rule 24.(4) of the Children's Law Reform Act and what evidence is required to demonstrate "violence and abuse" in the context of a custody and access dispute this thread would be an appropriate place.

But, if you are looking to this community as a community of victims of intimate partner abuse whom can provide emotional support you may have come to the wrong forum.

I highly recommend you ask your therapist if posting on this forum is a good idea at this point in your treatment.

Isn't that the point? I initially posted about this to 'rant' about my frustration with the criminal side of things. Is that not allowed?

Not saying it isn't. But, if people don't accept your story at face value and challenge your position on the hearsay evidence you provide under an anonymous poster this is allowable too. In kind consideration to the fact that you are alledging to be a victim of intimate partner abuse I am just advising you that this forum may not be an appropriate "emotional support" forum. It is a legal forum from my viewpoint generally.

Do I automatically suffer from mental health issues because I'm frustrated with my experiences?

Who stated that you were? I generally recommend to all people alleging that they are victims of intimate partner abuse to seek proper counselling from a trained and qualified practitioner of mental health services. Especially one that won't provide subjective statements on legal matters and focus on their client's emotional needs - not their legal needs.

There are also excellent face-to-face support groups that are managed and run by mental health professionals where you could get much better and directed support for your needs.

Ranting rarely in my experience leads to problem solving. Generally, the majority of the members of this community do not take things at face value and out of the box support people's ranting.

As PH pointed out, you may experience some similar conduct from people on this forum that could potentially mirror your past experiences and impact your treatment. This forum, as suggested by PH does contain controversial contributors that may scratch your post-traumatic issues and could set back your treatment. I am just being objective by stating this.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[wretchedotis]

Well I can say this with absolute certainty.

If he was given a conditional discharge - you would have been contacted by his parole office, and they would have gone over his 'conditions' as they pertain to you.

That you claim you had no knowledge of his conditions affects your credibility in my opinion. I wonder what else in your post has been skewed to your personal bias, not to say you're telling stories - but rather being directly involved in the situation I PROMISE you that you see everything slightly different than a 3rd person.

Do not mistake this to mean I am supportive of violence in any way...

But if you were able to step back and look at the big picture, you would see that a single punch (for example) is not really that big of a deal. I mean of course it's a big deal - but not to the extent that you seem to think it is.

I know it sounds like I'm baiting you, but I'm not.

It's just the way it is.

 

[slughead10]

lol Soccermom. I'd advise you to hit ignore on the women-hating trolls on this forum.

You'll figure out quickly enough who they are. They have nothing useful to impart and generally try to get much lacking female-attention by saying idiotic things in an attempt to rile you up.

Its a common theme with men who spend their lives being rejected by women...they're bitter, angry little dudes (stress on the "little"...LOL).

or youll figure out soon enough that there are women on here who use domestic violence charges to further their money grab and keep a good father from the children.......

not that i think you might be one.....

 

[stripes]

I'm very sorry to hear about all your negative experiences. I can just imagine all the intense emotions that must be coming up.

It sounds to me like you're getting *too much* input from all sides - people are telling you do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that, you're entitled to this, you're not entitled to that, you should feel this way, you shouldn't feel that way. (I include this forum in the chorus of voices, and of course I have to include myself now!). Perhaps with a therapist you could focus on disconnecting yourself from external input, temporarily, to allow the intensity level to calm down a bit so you can think more clearly. Having too much advice can be as confusing as having too little. I'm wondering if some form of mindfulness practice might be helpful for managing the information overload (and I realize I've just contributed to the problem, if there is a problem, by offering my own advice!).

Mess, I am not looking for my ex to be punished through the family law side. Please explain what you mean by that statement. I am hoping the criminal side will take care of it (although not counting on it) and when it comes to the family side I'm hoping for a restraining order against him since I don't feel safe. But I in no way am looking to punish him on the family law side aside from compensation on the damages. If you view looking out for the safety of my daughter as punishment then that's your perception but I know in my own heart that's not what I'm doing.

It's funny because everyone seems to play each side against each other. VCU starts off by telling you he's a monster and to get away from him and if i don't it will happen again. That it's a pattern that's tough to break. The criminal side says to get protection from the family side since he likely will get another slap on the hand because that's just the way the system is. Then the family law side says if he doesn't get a restraining order from the criminal side then why should they give one. All this despite proof and a charge, a history and a guilty plea. Sorry, I still don't get it.

I would like compensation from the damages and from what I understand would likely have received them if I had a receipt on the family law side. My frustration is that in the mindset I was in I can't say I was thinking that obtaining the receipt was the most important thing at the time. My bad. But why shouldn't I request to be compensated? I didn't crack the windshield. Of course, I should be reimbursed for the windshield because he's a violent jackass, that's the point. Why should he not have to pay it? I'm not following you.

Yes, why not let him NOT pay for the damages and it's yet again another thing he's not responsible for so he can continue to glide through and keep getting rewarded for his violent behaviour. Believe me, I'm trying to keep as clear a head as i can through all this but it becomes increasingly more difficult as people (or the system) continue to make excuses for him and his behavior.

 

[stripes]

Pay no attention to this. A single punch - whether thrown by a man or a woman - is a HUGE deal. It's assault.

Well I can say this with absolute certainty.


Do not mistake this to mean I am supportive of violence in any way...

But if you were able to step back and look at the big picture, you would see that a single punch (for example) is not really that big of a deal. I mean of course it's a big deal - but not to the extent that you seem to think it is.

I know it sounds like I'm baiting you, but I'm not.

It's just the way it is.

 

[Tayken]

But if you were able to step back and look at the big picture, you would see that a single punch (for example) is not really that big of a deal. I mean of course it's a big deal - but not to the extent that you seem to think it is.

Inexplicably, although charged with what was in effect a one-punch bar fight over a month before where the target was her spouse, the mother was arrested and detained in custody for a bail hearing, the next day. The mother was not then released on her own recognisance but was required to have a surety and in the amount of $5,000.00. The mother was bound over by the court on terms that effectively gave the father instant custody and instantly restricted access by the mother to her children (who of course were not at the Shelburne Legion when the assault is said to have occurred and equally inexplicably including restricted contact with her daughter from a prior marriage who resided outside the parties’ household) and, in a provision that coincidently exceeds my family law jurisdiction as a judge, effectively granted exclusive possession of the parties’ matrimonial home to the father.

Also, a great view of "domestic violence" and one-time occurrences can be found in the Honourable Mr. Justice Brownstone's book "Tug of War" as well. It provides an interesting perspective of the "last fight" situation and considerations on the balance of probabilities that justices often have to make in family law matters regarding custody and access.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[wretchedotis]

I fear many may miss the back-handed approach of your quote, Tayken.

 

[SoccerMom73]

Gee whiz, I’ve read over these threads and am quite blown away. The whole reason I came on this forum was to try to get objective advice and feedback. I was quite aware that there would be opinions quite different or opposite to mine and I’m quite ok with that. What I’m not particularly ok with is having every statement I make picked apart. I didn’t realize I was on trial here lol.

Sadly, it appears that although there is some great input on this forum and while much of the great feedback on this thread was opposite to my own outlook, there is also a great deal of hate and bitterness towards women on this forum. It couldn’t be more obvious if I was hit in the head by it. Oh wait but that’s not a big deal eh, wretched Otis? Would it change your mind btw if my ex acknowledged he could have killed me by the single blow to my temple? Let me guess, likely not…you are probably having a little chuckle to yourself right now about it.

Wretchedotis, my ex was not given a conditional discharge YET as I’ve stated that he hasn’t been sentenced yet. He was given a conditional discharge on his last charge with a prior girlfriend that occurred in 2005. He will LIKELY receive another one this time around. So maybe you should read through the material before making such a ridiculous comment. And right…your statement about the punch to head is not as big of a deal as I think it is. Neither is the grabbing me by the back of my head and hitting my face into the middle console a number of times, huh? Honestly, I feel very sorry for you to have such an outlook. Even sorrier for your partner as I hope she isn’t on the receiving end of that one day. Sounds like you do a pretty good job of justifying it. You and my ex should start a club J Oh wait, from the tone of many of the responses he’s probably a regular contributor on here.

I’m sure there are women out there that do use domestic abuse charges to further their money grab and keep a good father from his children. I doubt there are as many as there are abusers but I’m sure there are. Just like there are deadbeat dads who have their kids witness abuse and could injure them in the process but still feel they are entitled to the same rights that responsible loving dads have. Not that I think you’re one of those slughead
So although some of the feedback here has been appreciated and helpful too much of it is indicative of a caveman-type mentality. I find it rather disturbing this type of mentality actually exists and to be honest though I appreciate some of it (HammerDad and stripes) many of your responses make me sick to my stomach.

Btw, Tayken I appreciate all of your advice on mental health and yes you did allude to the fact that I MAY be suffering from mental health issues lol. Don’t worry, my counselor is quite well-versed in treating victims of abuse, as well as individuals who commit assault, of which many don’t take accountability. I totally get that a number of you are baiting and I don’t understand where all that hate comes from. Perhaps some of you could benefit from some therapy to outlet some of that anger and hatred as opposed to picking apart individuals on here who are just looking for objective feedback. Btw, Tayken I still don’t like the conflict but I guess maybe I’m growing a backbone through my therapy. Hey it’s working J Good luck to you all... Peace out....

 

[Rioe]

Wikipedia has a not bad summary of how sentencing goes for criminal convictions. Criminal sentencing in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It can seem illogical that a past criminal history is not considered when deciding guilt or innocence of a subsequent criminal offence. However, we convict strictly on the current facts of the case before the court, not on the probability of the offender to have committed this particular offence based on his past. Kind of like how we don't bring a woman's sexual history into the story when she is raped.

However, his past criminal actions will be taken into consideration if he is convicted, when it comes time to choose the appropriate sentence. If he had a conditional discharge last time, this time he is likely to receive something a little more severe.

And yes, this is a forum for people to share advice about the legal aspects of family law situations. We aren't too good at simply being a listening ear or emotional support. Give us hard cold facts, and we can give you logical and rational suggestions based on our experience and knowledge.

In this case, the facts are that family law operates on a certain level, and criminal actions don't really affect it. He's going to get half the debt and half the assets, and one of you may have to pay support to the other, no matter how the marriage ended.

By the way, fighting over the cost of reimbursement of the windshield is going to cost many times that cost in legal fees. I know it rankles, but other than sneaking it into equalization to see if he allows it, there isn't anything worthwhile you can do.

 

[SadAndTired]

Perhaps some of you could benefit from some therapy to outlet some of that anger and hatred as opposed to picking apart individuals on here who are just looking for objective feedback.

Well, I agree with this sentiment....

I hope you find the peace and new life you seek SoccerMom. All the best to you.

 

[Tayken]

Gee whiz, I’ve read over these threads and am quite blown away. The whole reason I came on this forum was to try to get objective advice and feedback. I was quite aware that there would be opinions quite different or opposite to mine and I’m quite ok with that. What I’m not particularly ok with is having every statement I make picked apart. I didn’t realize I was on trial here lol.

One of the things that you can (and many have) is to use this forum as a sounding board on how your position will hold up in court. So, my recommendation would be to use it as a testing ground and how someone may counter argue your hearsay evidence.

It is a public message forum on divorce. Many people come here with legal questions. They will shape their responses to the fact it is a "divorce forum".

Sadly, it appears that although there is some great input on this forum and while much of the great feedback on this thread was opposite to my own outlook, there is also a great deal of hate and bitterness towards women on this forum.

I find that the balance of postings to be equal, just like the incidents of "domestic violence", to be equal among the two genders in my personal opinion.

It couldn’t be more obvious if I was hit in the head by it. Oh wait but that’s not a big deal eh, wretched Otis? Would it change your mind btw if my ex acknowledged he could have killed me by the single blow to my temple?

WO is just putting things into perspective in the context of how a family court may view things. So was Mess earlier in the thread. I provided a quote from an actual justice who was making a comment about a female assaulting a male from case law. (Shaw v. Shaw)

Let me guess, likely not…you are probably having a little chuckle to yourself right now about it.

Having contributed to this board for quite some time and well aware of WO's situation - I can assure you he is *NOT* laughing or chuckling.

Wretchedotis, my ex was not given a conditional discharge YET as I’ve stated that he hasn’t been sentenced yet. He was given a conditional discharge on his last charge with a prior girlfriend that occurred in 2005. He will LIKELY receive another one this time around.

Do realize SoccerMom73 that in the past there have been a number of incidents on this forum when someone comes to alledge something and their story falls apart. So, you will find defensive people on this site... Especially long-time contributors such as WO.

So maybe you should read through the material before making such a ridiculous comment.

It really wasn't ridiculous.

And right…your statement about the punch to head is not as big of a deal as I think it is. Neither is the grabbing me by the back of my head and hitting my face into the middle console a number of times, huh?

http://canadacourtwatch.com/Newpaper Articles/2005Feb22 - Man can sue ex wife lawyer.pdf

Or the time he pinned you against a wall on May 15, 2001, plugged in an iron and held it close to your face once it had heated up. Or the on another occasion when he threw a set of keys at you causing a bad
cut? (Read the Globe and Mail article from the link.)

Some times "the description begs belief". Based on what you have disclosed here you do present yourself as a resolute character who is not easily controlled by others in my opinion. Your responses are impressive and you do demonstrate yourself as someone of obvious competence and courage. You don't appear (from the limited messages you have posted) as someone whom is submissive and "controlled".

Read the Globe and Mail article to see the challenge you face possibly.

Honestly, I feel very sorry for you to have such an outlook. Even sorrier for your partner as I hope she isn’t on the receiving end of that one day. Sounds like you do a pretty good job of justifying it. You and my ex should start a club. Oh wait, from the tone of many of the responses he’s probably a regular contributor on here.

Yes, he is quite a regular contributor and much respected one too.

I’m sure there are women out there that do use domestic abuse charges to further their money grab and keep a good father from his children.

This is why both the "abuser" and the "abused" need to be psychoanalyzed (MMPI-II, et all) to be able to apply Rule 24.(4) of the CLRA and apply it properly in a custody and access determination.

I doubt there are as many as there are abusers but I’m sure there are.

No conclusive study has ever been done that I have been able to locate on the numbers. There are odd studies with awful control groups and bad statistics that say that false allegations happen more and others that say the opposite.

Just like there are deadbeat dads who have their kids witness abuse and could injure them in the process but still feel they are entitled to the same rights that responsible loving dads have. Not that I think you’re one of those slughead

Family law isn't about dads vs moms. It is about the children's "best interests". Rule 24 of the CLRA.

So although some of the feedback here has been appreciated and helpful too much of it is indicative of a caveman-type mentality.

A rather sexist and generalizing statement to make and an unfortunate one. Domestic violence as studied by Statistics Canada is equal between the two sexes. No need to use a gender slur such as "cave man".

I find it rather disturbing this type of mentality actually exists and to be honest though I appreciate some of it (HammerDad and stripes) many of your responses make me sick to my stomach.

Hence the reason I suggested that this forum may not be appropriate and therapy may be more beneficial.

Btw, Tayken I appreciate all of your advice on mental health and yes you did allude to the fact that I MAY be suffering from mental health issues lol.

Well, you can "feel" that way if you would like. As you have failed to demonstrate by quoting me specifically where I explicitly stated this it is hard to respond to your point. Just to clarify that isn't my position.

Don’t worry, my counselor is quite well-versed in treating victims of abuse, as well as individuals who commit assault, of which many don’t take accountability.

Have you been reading Lundy Bancroft's books?

I totally get that a number of you are baiting and I don’t understand where all that hate comes from. Perhaps some of you could benefit from some therapy to outlet some of that anger and hatred as opposed to picking apart individuals on here who are just looking for objective feedback.

Btw, Tayken I still don’t like the conflict but I guess maybe I’m growing a backbone through my therapy. Hey it’s working Good luck to you all... Peace out....

Therapeutic intervention in my opinion, for intimate partner abuse when conducted by a properly trained psychotherapist isn't about "growing a backbone". It is about healing and self realization - not conflict. It is generally focused on resolving the emotional pain and looking forward in life - not backwards. Also, it is about not re-living the experience and not putting yourself in a situation where you re-live it ever again. Be that on a message forum or in "real life" with a new partner. It is an exploration of one's self and understanding that they don't need to be a victim and view themselves as a victim generally.

Good Luck!
Tayken