Ex wants to move back in

[arabian]

^... has a lot of baggage with his ex/paying for kids and spousal support.....

One of the first things I learned, reluctantly, is that after divorce our lifestyles change drastically. Unless you win the lottery you have to come to the reality that your life will change in a big way. Two incomes and a million dollar home... lawyers will take at least 1/3 of your equity to start. Think I'm kidding? Lawyers learn this in law school. Lawyers know the two of you are big income people and have ASSETS (home in TO). Lawyers will do everything possible to max out their billable hours at your children's expense. Count on it. If the two of you can shake of your respective egos there is hope for you.

Nice that you have a home that you likely had to put little elbow grease into to realize it's current value. This is a one-time bonus for the two of you. It will not happen again in your lifetime. Take your winnings. You don't need to live in downtown TO. Kids make other friends.... they are young. Everyone loses/adjusts in a divorce unless you are mega-rich. The sooner you accept your new reality the sooner you will be able to move on with your life.

Hey your ex may not be super-dad but it sounds as though he made a substantial effort. With or without your encouragement he will likely be successful with a 50/50 custody arrangement should he so desire. This is 2016. I'd be having a convo with him to see what he envisions his role to be in the future.

If you don't want to come to an agreement with him soon then you can be assured that the lawyer and/or mediators will eat up your assets. Smart money says to meet your ex half way and get a convo going which is realistic and take the kids' interests at heart.

 

[Janus]

arabian, The kids are all under 8. He is an ok father but doesn't have great role models. He just started doing their laundry last month, learned to make lunches during the separation, doesn't really cook

Serious question: why do so many women think that cooking and doing the laundry is some sort of wonderful complicated feat? For the most part, child care is unskilled labour, anybody can do it. I wouldn't even pay somebody minimum wage to do my laundry because it is such a simple task.

Where did you learn how to make lunches? Did you take a course or were you just naturally gifted?

lacks some key parenting skills.

I am sure he parents differently than you. Any skills in particular that he lacks? Does he not wash their hair adequately? When he chooses clothing, does it (gasp!) not match?

He never watched the 3 kids once before we separated. Maybe he did once, but it was a disaster.

Wow, was there a hospitalization involved? Some sort of police intervention? Permanent injury or disfiguration?

What kind of a disaster should result in a parent losing their child? A bump? Late bedtime?

I have a great job - mid-level government. I make good money, but not for downtown Toronto where houses start at 1 million dollars, which is where we live and my kids go to school and have friends. Living a 90 minute commute away isn't an option. I'm fine to downsize, but need my share of the house to buy something else.

You want, you don't need.

 

[SadAndTired]

You want, you don't need.

Oh Janus. I swear women can't win on this board sometimes. All she is asking for is HER part of the house (she works - she earned it too) and proper CS so she CAN move on. I think the Ex is stalling. Not her.

Child support is the right of her children. Dad is making 6 figures. He should pay. No scorn for him from you though....

If she was saying her welfare wouldn't cover her living expenses, this would be a different bitch session but a bitch session all the same.

How tiresome.

 

[LovingFather32]

Actually, Janus raises some good points. I don't believe she's here to give females of odf a hard time.

Sounds like another amplified, subjective interpretation of parenting based on a turbulent, failed relationship where his bad qualities are exaggerated and good qualities are lost, forgotten or minimized.

I cook, clean, do the laundry (still working on french braids) and much more since my g/f is a full time nursing student. I rather enjoy it. But who knows if that would even be recognized if our relationship suddenly ended or we had a fall out of some kind, heaven forbid.

Please don't take Janus' post as "women not being able to win" on odf.

 

[SadAndTired]

Actually, Janus raises some good points. I don't believe she's here to give females of odf a hard time.

Sounds like another amplified, subjective interpretation of parenting based on a turbulent, failed relationship where his bad qualities are exaggerated and good qualities are lost, forgotten or minimized.

I cook, clean, do the laundry (still working on french braids) and much more since my g/f is a full time nursing student. I rather enjoy it. But who knows if that would even be recognized if our relationship suddenly ended or we had a fall out of some kind, heaven forbid.

Please don't take Janus' post as "women not being able to win" on odf.

Please don't generalize my reply to Janus.

I specifically made a post about how she said it was a "want" and not a need to have half of the equity in the house the Op and her Ex own. My post was about money.

Go back and read the quote and Janus' reply. She has very specific responses to the various topics in her response. She even responds to different people in one post.

I specially addressed a comment she made. I made no comment on parenting of any sort. Take a breath before posting LF. My post had NOTHING to do with parenting and certainly wasn't about your household abilities as a man.

As Janus said

I wouldn't even pay somebody minimum wage to do my laundry because it is such a simple task.

Where did you learn how to make lunches? Did you take a course or were you just naturally gifted?

 

[Tayken]

Tayken... he makes much, much more than that. At least 5-8x more than that. We also almost outright own our house. I don't plan on living on CS, but I need to supplement my income to support the children.

If that *is* the case then, you can get a good lawyer to work on spec based on what you will get in CS (even offset) and equalization from the home. One would assume that with a 65,000 * 8 = 520,000 yearly income you can leverage your assets and future CS to retain really good counsel.

At 520,000 in Ontario with 3 children you are looking at 7,939 a month in child support alone. Lots of lawyers will work on spec with that kind of potential to pay back their bills... even without an up-front retainer. They will put a lean on your portion of the equity in the almost paid home.

Why waste your time with a forum when you could have a legal professional simply do everything? You could probably get someone from Epstein Cole on spec for that kind of monthly payments alone!

They would even get you SS on those numbers too and push it up to easily 15,000 a month.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[Links17]

I remember I used to disagree with Tayken all time, I am fairly he sure Tayken believed in family law once.... and now Tayken has joined the rebel alliance...

Tayken is completely right and I wasn't joking about quitting your job. You are entitled to live off child support the rest of your life, it is your right.

 

[Tayken]

I remember I used to disagree with Tayken all time, I am fairly he sure Tayken believed in family law once.... and now Tayken has joined the rebel alliance...

I wouldn't say I have lost faith in family law nor am I a part of the rebel alliance. I just take issue with those who have the means to retain counsel coming to this forum and acting as they cannot get legal counsel to assist in their matters. I have a hard time when people with significant means available to them come here for "advice".

You disagree with me because you have a hard line belief in certain aspects of family law. Rather than having those beliefs I try to help people put forward cases that will change things. (For example WD.) A very well presented case before the right family law justice can put case law into our system that changes things.

Tayken is completely right and I wasn't joking about quitting your job. You are entitled to live off child support the rest of your life, it is your right.

I wouldn't agree that it is a "right" but, the amount of money that could be collected from this matter could lead to a very privileged life for the OP for sure. As well, those numbers (if indeed truthful) could get the OP much better and real advice from one of the top lawyers in Toronto.

What the OP will face is a Section 30 assessment and a 50-50 access schedule. The challenge this forum has created for parents like the OP is that majority access is not handed out as easily. If a parent comes to court today and wants 50-50 the probability of them getting it is very high. (Thanks to WD's efforts.) 10 years ago this was not the case.

No doubt with a 520,000 income the other party in the OP's matter will have retained counsel already... and not your general run-of-the-mill counsel either. The other party has the means to retain top-notch legal counsel and get a Section 30 evaluation done. Doubtful that a private assessor would not recommend anything other than 50-50 these days.

I suspect that the OP will get to meet Jacqueline Vanbetlehem in the near future. If the OP goes the arbitration route the OP will probably meet Hilary Linton as well. The kind of numbers the OP is throwing around usually end up in front of those professionals in the GTA.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[stripes]

1. Ignore Links and the crosstalk about men vs women.
2. It sounds like neither of you can afford to keep the house, so making plans to sell it should be a priority. If your ex has been paying the mortgage and the bills since you separated, he is entitled to get this back when you equalize the proceeds of the sale.
3. Your ex is obliged to support his children according to his income. If you have his last seven years of tax returns, you have a pretty good idea what his income is. If he claims that it is less, he needs to prove it.
4. You should work with a lawyer to write up on Offer to Settle incorporating points 2 and 3.
5. You should not feel guilty about seeking CS. He earns a lot of money and he is required to use it to support his children. End of story.
6. If he seeks shared parenting (kids live at least 40% of the time with you and at least 40% with him), he will probably get it, which is not a bad thing. This means the CS you receive will be reduced (look up "offset" for details). If he doesn't seek shared parenting, then he should pay the full CS amount.
7. You will probably have to move out of central Toronto, so it's wise to begin budgeting or strategizing for that.

 

[magic3]

Hilary Linton was useless. STBX tried to say his income was cut in half and had no supporting documents. She gave him her ear for the day and wasted a lot of time and money. This was in April. He still has not produced proof of income, other than 2015 tax return which is says is no longer accurate. He's the master of BS and stalling.

 

[Tayken]

Hilary Linton was useless.

Bingo. Did I call it folks? We are dealing with someone who can pay upwards of 800 an hour (roughly) for mediation services with *the best* mediator in the GTA and possibly our country.

To simply say that Ms. Linton was "useless" points to a real problem with the OP here. Clearly Ms. Linton made some recommendations that were not what the OP wanted. Ms. Linton is probably the most fair and detailed mediator/arbitrator you could meet in the GTA. She litterally trains everyone.

Maybe Dr. Landau will be the next professional to see this matter? No doubt it was in the recommendations provided.

https://www.coop-solutions.ca/dr-barbara-landau/

Might I recommend to the OP that she avoid the mediation route and switch to Arbitration. That way an order can be made.

STBX tried to say his income was cut in half and had no supporting documents. She gave him her ear for the day and wasted a lot of time and money. This was in April.

Ms. Linton's intake (which I have seen personally) is very detailed. She would listen but, not recommend anything without the proper financial disclosure. Warning though, Ms. Linton is very pro equal and shared access. Also, if there is a claim to "abuse" anywhere in this thread by the OP it is bogus. The screen process for mediation that Ms. Linton has is what everyone uses to screen for power imbalances and "abuse".

He still has not produced proof of income, other than 2015 tax return which is says is no longer accurate. He's the master of BS and stalling.

Recommend back arbitration. If they balk at it then bring a motion. From there you can get orders for income disclosure. Money and income are very hard to hide.

FYI: Having to deal with someone in the 520,000 income range means that they will delay big time. The longer you go without support the argument for not requiring it grows.

You want CS and are both living in two different residences... Then file a motion and you will get it quick. With those numbers you will be likely before Justice Czutrin for your case conference. Justice Czutrin will be quick to order CS for an income earner like this at conference with limited evidence. (Which a Judge can do BTW.)

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[arabian]

The thing about motions is that things are at least moving forward, with deadlines. Often there are delays/adjournments but at least it is documented and if a pattern develops then costs will be assessed.

WRT arbitration - make sure you go for "binding" arbitration. Non-binding arbitration is a waste of your time and is simply glorified case conferencing IMO.

I recall that I received an "interim interim Order" for support followed by an "interim Order" for adjusted support (and other conditions). Be sure your lawyer obtains an Order for financial disclosure with specific deadline for production of same. If your ex is self-employed you should try to be as specific as possible in outlining the financial disclosure you are seeking. If you do not do this you will end up facing adjournment after adjournment.

 

[Janus]

Please don't generalize my reply to Janus.

I specifically made a post about how she said it was a "want" and not a need to have half of the equity in the house the Op and her Ex own. My post was about money.

I meant that she "wanted" to own a house in a very expensive area, she didn't "need" to own a house in that expensive area.

I thought I was clear, perhaps I was not.

The only type of people who can never win with me are those who won't share custody with a willing ex spouse. Everyone else has chance.