Equalization Payment over $100,000

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morningrun

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As a result of reviewing family assets which are the house and my pension as the only two to really consider, and after giving my husband the house I still owe over $100,000 equalization. I have no idea how to pay this as I will no longer have equity (house) from which to borrow against. I do have a very good salary. Has anyone dealt with a situation like this and know the possible options and implications, financially. Needless to say, I will also need a place to live.
Morningrun:confused:
 
Why not transfer out the rest from your pension? I am assuming that you owe this much to him based on your pension contributions which are now deemed to be an asset which should be split. Federal pensions use the PBDA (Pension Benefits Division Act) to transfer this amount to a locked in RRSP which he will get to touch when he is 55, whereas provincially Bill 133 in Ontario formalizes this transfer to your spouse.
BTW. My equalization payment to her was much larger so I can appreciate how much this sucks. Remember that it is just money. Health and your family trump any of this divorce BS.
All the best.
 
Why not transfer out the rest from your pension? I am assuming that you owe this much to him based on your pension contributions which are now deemed to be an asset which should be split. Federal pensions use the PBDA (Pension Benefits Division Act) to transfer this amount to a locked in RRSP which he will get to touch when he is 55, whereas provincially Bill 133 in Ontario formalizes this transfer to your spouse.
BTW. My equalization payment to her was much larger so I can appreciate how much this sucks. Remember that it is just money. Health and your family trump any of this divorce BS.
All the best.
Thanks for your reply. Because I am a teacher, I do not think I can touch my pension as you described. I was told that Bill 133 had not yet formally passed as Bill 133 would allow such a lump sum division. Please correct me if I am wrong. Morningrun
 
I would place a call to your pension people and ask them. I have verified that Bill 133 has already received royal assent. Just needs to be tabled by the Lieutenant Governor. Not sure when this will be as have read that they are still working on the technical specifications for the pension valuation calculations. But could be sometime soon. Your pension folks should know more.
Best of luck.
 
Ok all, I spoke to my pension board. Bill 133 is way off being passed and at this point they cannot provide any advice on its implications. At this point, I can use defer paying equalization, by using my pension benefits only at the time I either quit working or retire and start collecting pension. At this time, pension plan will only payout portion of pension to ex. on a monthy basis. As a result, he could wait 10-12 or so years to start getting this equalization which may take longer to payout. My idea then would be to pay him monthly and top it up whenever I can save a few extra thousand. In this way my pension in total is saved for me and he can start getting equalization earlier. I could plan to pay it off in 10 years or less. Am I correct that equalization payments can be made up to 10 years without interest being charged?
Any thoughts?
Morningrun
 
I wouldn't think that you are responsible for giving him half the value of the pension now just because it is in your name. If you can't split the asset now due to its disposition then he will have to wait, just like you to get the pension.

So on paper split the asset now, meaning take its value now and divide that 50/50 and agree that half is his when the pension starts to be dispensed to you at retirement. As you make contributions his percentage of the pension goes down, but he still benifits from the value increase if the pension is invested etc. For example if you never make any more contributions, and the value of the pension goes up (I am not sure pensions work this way but if they do), then he still gets half the value of the pension (half of the increased value not the dollar value when you separated) when it is dispenced.

When you can get the pension, then you distribute his portion to him. So it is still in his name (as an agreement between the two of you), but he cannot get to it any more than you can at this time. Is that something that works? Now as for the other assets, they would also be split 50/50. So from your post, you would not be giving him an equilization payment of over $100K because the pension agreement would take care of the pension. I hope I made myself clear.
 
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The equalization payment has already included the value of my pension upon retirement. Hence, the pension value and house value split show that I owe him about 130,000 equalization. I would prefer to pay this out over 10 years then to have my pension touched when I retire. My goal is to pay it out anyway I can and preserve my pension at all costs. Morningrun
 
If you are paying him money over time for equilization, then you have to pay interest to be fair.
 
Met with Lawyer yesterday and this is her advice for my mediation appointment next week.

1. Marital Home: NFP statement places my half of equity to husband. He has already been approved to take over mortgage and house payments. This leaves me with no equity to buy a place or borrow against to pay $130,000 equalization. But is does relieve me of house payments.

1. Equalization: Two options since I have no equity to make a loan.
a) I can defer my equalization payout till I retire (13 years) age 65. However, my pension does not allow lump sum payouts. It would be paid out monthly at source and to a max ie maybe $2000 per month. It will take about 65 or so months or 5.5 years. Husband and I would be around 70 years old.
b) I can pay monthly installments with provision that lumpsums can
paydown earlier. I was looking at $1000.00/month. With my salary I can pay this off within next 10 years or earlier.

Also, my lawyer noted that husband took $80,000 from home equity to start his business, 5 year ago. I felt pressure to sign the document with his promises to 'change our family wealth and for him to have a pension'. I made this a requirement. As it turns out, he lost everything and did not start a pension. (just found out) Lawyer says I am paying for this twice,' unequal-equalization' and should consider he lost his half, $40,000, but not my portion. His NET worth shows a "0" claiming he lost everything. Lawyer finds that odd.

2. Child support - both adult children live with father in marital home.
Son, age 23, in school full-time, fourth year coming up. He does not qualify for support after his degree. Education expenses have aleady been addressed. 50% son, 25% mother, 25% father. He has a job and makes good money for a student. Owns his own car and pays for almost all his own needs. She suggests that the child support tables are not applicable here. We could come up with another reasonable figure reflecting what we really pay for such as food.
Daughter, age 19 lives at house with father. Not in school and works two part-time jobs. She again, pays her way for all her own personal needs. She is not eligible until she is in school full-time.
I was considering offering $500 per month for formal support for son/daughter. Once she decides to start school full-time, son will be finished.

It was suggested that should husband not be willing to accept above, I can force him to sell house and force him to wait till I retire to start receiving equalization payments.

Any feedback appreciated. Morningrun
 
Met with Lawyer yesterday and this is her advice for my mediation appointment next week.
...

1. Equalization: Two options since I have no equity to make a loan.
a) I can defer my equalization payout till I retire (13 years) age 65. However, my pension does not allow lump sum payouts. It would be paid out monthly at source and to a max ie maybe $2000 per month. It will take about 65 or so months or 5.5 years. Husband and I would be around 70 years old.
b) I can pay monthly installments with provision that lumpsums can
paydown earlier. I was looking at $1000.00/month. With my salary I can pay this off within next 10 years or earlier.
These sound fine - both ideas must include interest. Is the pension invested, meaning if you did not contribute anymore to it, does it grow in value? If so that growth should be shared until payout.

I am a little confused - is ((your pension / 2) - (total equity in home / 2)) = $130K? For example the equity in the home is $40k (20K each), and your pension is $300K ($150K each), (ie total equity is $340K, 170K each) such that you are keeping the pension and he is keeping the house and its equity so you owe him $300 - 170K = 130K??

Also, my lawyer noted that husband took $80,000 from home equity to start his business, 5 year ago. I felt pressure to sign the document with his promises to 'change our family wealth and for him to have a pension'. I made this a requirement. As it turns out, he lost everything and did not start a pension. (just found out) Lawyer says I am paying for this twice,' unequal-equalization' and should consider he lost his half, $40,000, but not my portion. His NET worth shows a "0" claiming he lost everything. Lawyer finds that odd.
That kind of logic is exactly what my former spouses' lawyer would spout and I don't agree, nor hopefully the courts.

You were married, you take chances together. The money is gone and both of you must take the hit for that. If the opposite happened and his business was a raving success and he created a pension, would you (or your lawyer) only want your $40K back? Probably not.


2. Child support - both adult children live with father in marital home.
Son, age 23, in school full-time, fourth year coming up. He does not qualify for support after his degree. Education expenses have aleady been addressed. 50% son, 25% mother, 25% father. He has a job and makes good money for a student. Owns his own car and pays for almost all his own needs. She suggests that the child support tables are not applicable here. We could come up with another reasonable figure reflecting what we really pay for such as food.
Daughter, age 19 lives at house with father. Not in school and works two part-time jobs. She again, pays her way for all her own personal needs. She is not eligible until she is in school full-time.
I was considering offering $500 per month for formal support for son/daughter. Once she decides to start school full-time, son will be finished.
Given that you are just separating, I think that the equal payments for the olders ones school is fair (rather than splitting according to income).

If you accept that the daughter should be paying for all her expenses, including rent, and encourage the father to charge rent, then CS can be 0, otherwise you should pay the table amount as he is supporting her as a child still and you agree with that.

It was suggested that should husband not be willing to accept above, I can force him to sell house and force him to wait till I retire to start receiving equalization payments.

Forcing the sale of the matrimonial home - what good would come of that ? What would be the purpose, as you owe him money.

Waiting until retirement is fine with me I think because you really can't get to the money so it seems reasonable that he has to wait as do you.
 
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So what would be a 'reasonable' interest charged on equalization ($130,000 money owing) in the province of Ontario? I have checked with financial institutions that are paying less than 2.0% per annum on RRSP accounts. Any thoughts? Morningrun
 
So what would be a 'reasonable' interest charged on equalization ($130,000 money owing) in the province of Ontario? I have checked with financial institutions that are paying less than 2.0% per annum on RRSP accounts. Any thoughts? Morningrun


Well if you did owe him $130K NOW (not sure based on details but lets assume you do), then I guess the idea is that he should have access to the benifit of having that money, meaning that he should be able to borrow the 130K himself, and the cost of borrowing should be the amount of interest you would pay. This would allow him to invest the money as he sees fit, as if you had already paid him and then he will not be effected by you not paying him now. Not sure about this because getting a loan for 130K may not be possible given there is nothing to secure it. Maybe he would be happy to have a GIC rate or something.

Were do you get the 130K number from? Is it the current cash equivalent of half the pension - after tax dollars, because to get 130K cash now from a pension etc means the pension must be more because of tax penalties and income tax issues - I guess you have worked this out...

Again though, I don't see that you owe him that money now as you can't get to it, but the value of that money in the pension (the 130K) should be 'his' and its growth 'his' as well.

Of course you can come to any agreement that you both think is fair, those are just my thoughts.
 
I have a a salary of over 150,000 and will owe 130,000 equalization. I only have one small car loan. (This is after pension and house are calculated in valuation and divided). My pension does not allow me to take lump sum out to pay off equalization. It only allows monthly payments to ex after I retire, to start paying equalization. As a result, he will only be paid max of 2000 per month after I retire till the equalization is paid. Since I am already in my 50's and am starting out with nothing except an equalization debt, I will most likely work till 65 in order to pay off any future place to live and equalization. I have an excellent credit rating. I plan to live at my mothers for first year after separation agreement with the goal of paying off equalization as early as possible. However, because my ex is thinking since he cannot get the lump sum payment immediately, he needs to demand a greater portion of my pension value verses if I could give it to him all at once, it would benefit him more in the long run. I have aready gone to a bank that clearly told me they could not loan me these funds because I have no equity to borrow against. However, I was also told that I could easily pay off this loan. Does anyone know if there is a place to go to get a loan of this size with an excellent credit rating and my salary...especially if I have no debts and plan to stay with my mom (who is aging and it would not be a bad thing to stay with her for a year or so)? Trying to resolve things quickly and avoid potentially doubling my payout if delayed 10 + years.

Morningrun
 
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