DV...What is acceptable to report ?
- Thread starter May_May
- Start date
standing on the sidelines
New member
DV to me is when you are in actual fear , and not just because you are pissed off and want to make him pay. When there are actually signs of the violence such as bruising. Fear should be the main emotion, not payback or anger.
Tayken
Well-known member
That isn't the threshold they want for "intimate partner abuse". They don't want people reporting insignificant incidents (or arguments).
Domestic violence charges require physical contact in Canada generally. I wouldn't go on a "bump", "shove" or something minor. It will backfire on you in family court. Furthermore, without prior incident to a seperation you may find the police looking at you somewhat with crossed eyes.
My understanding is that you no longer reside in the same residence as the other parent. The best advice is to not have physical contact with the other parent and to bring a third party witness with you and to advise the other parent to do so as well.
The last thing you want is the conflict from allegations of DV in your matter.
Furthermore, who suggested you should consider or investigate "DV" charges. If your solicitor in any way suggested you should seek information on how to charge the other parent with DV you need to report them to the law society right now and to law enforcement.
If a lawyer has instructed you to seek out an opportunity to press criminal charges in a civil matter it is ILLEGAL to do so and CRIMINAL.
You can not threaten CRIMINAL CHARGES in CIVIL LITIGATION.
If your lawyer has even HINTED at this it is GROSS MISS CONDUCT in their professional practice and NEEDS to be reported IMMEDIATELY to the society.
See Molly Murphy's book: Winner Take All by Molly Murphy
If you have been told anything by a solicitor that smells "fishy" or that you are being asked to entrap the other parent under false allegations please report this. You can contact Ms. Murphy directly and she will help you in reporting this solicitors illegal conduct more than likely.
I highly recommend you do not go down this path.
Good Luck!
Tayken
standing on the sidelines
New member
if this is in relation to the time you tried to force yourself into the house??
hadenough
New member
While we were still in the same house: My X pushed me, grabbed my hair and very loudly and graphically threatened to kill me. All the while, there was spit spraying from his mouth as every hateful word left his mouth. This was done with the child in the home (he did not 'see' but heard every word).
That is DV. Was I hurt? Not really. Was I scared? Yes.
The ex had no priors, was charged w/assault and uttering threats. Assault charge was dismissed, and for the uttering threats he rec'd a conditional pardon. He was on probation for one year, and was court-ordered to attend a partner abuse program.
^All of which, he denied - and all of which didn't really factor into the big picture, except to hurt his abysmal lack of credibility by the time it wrapped up in Trial (which was focused on CS/SS).
Your situation has several volatile components. Best to have minimal or NO face to face contact, and *always* have someone with you when ie: doing pick ups or drop-offs.
That is DV. Was I hurt? Not really. Was I scared? Yes.
The ex had no priors, was charged w/assault and uttering threats. Assault charge was dismissed, and for the uttering threats he rec'd a conditional pardon. He was on probation for one year, and was court-ordered to attend a partner abuse program.
^All of which, he denied - and all of which didn't really factor into the big picture, except to hurt his abysmal lack of credibility by the time it wrapped up in Trial (which was focused on CS/SS).
Your situation has several volatile components. Best to have minimal or NO face to face contact, and *always* have someone with you when ie: doing pick ups or drop-offs.
May_May
New member
Thanks SOS-those are my thoughts as well...
Tayken-I sent you a PM. God no...definitely not recommended by anybody and I would never make a false claim. This is not what is happening.
SOS-I never 'forced' myself anywhere...
HE-Definitely scary and something I'm not sure you would ever forget. I'm glad you weren't hurt anything further past that incident...and Thanks for the advice !
hadenough
New member
MM: thanks. Was just the 'one' incident. I meant to say he rec'd a "conditional discharge" (I said "pardon").
For our situation: not communicating at all (occasional text/email and that is very infrequent) works best. However, I am anticipating some sort of striking out as FRO is just starting to get involved, as well there is one other lingering matter (in another court) - so it would not surprise me at all if I soon 'hear' from the X and/or his wife. The plan is, (if I do) to ignore - and if it escalates to the point of threatening, I will contact the police. Just remember - do not engage with him and keep the face to face to a minimum, and have a third party/another adult, with you. (I know you have heard this 50x, but it's worth repeating)
For our situation: not communicating at all (occasional text/email and that is very infrequent) works best. However, I am anticipating some sort of striking out as FRO is just starting to get involved, as well there is one other lingering matter (in another court) - so it would not surprise me at all if I soon 'hear' from the X and/or his wife. The plan is, (if I do) to ignore - and if it escalates to the point of threatening, I will contact the police. Just remember - do not engage with him and keep the face to face to a minimum, and have a third party/another adult, with you. (I know you have heard this 50x, but it's worth repeating)
wretchedotis
New member
Any act that instills fear.
standing on the sidelines
New member
k obviously you are hinting at something, why not tell the whole story and hopefully get some straight answers? There are too many variables to even really give a guess.
It would all depend on how the bruising occurred. Was someone protecting themselves from an attack by the other person by grabbing their wrists causing the bruises? If so thats not DV that is self defence.
Tayken
Well-known member
I again reference Shaw v. Shaw which is a highly sighted case by Judges, Solicitors and the Public Media:
Date: 2008-03-25
Docket: 34/08
Parallel citations: 62 RFL (6th) 100
URL: CanLII - 2008 ONCJ 130 (CanLII)
Citation: Shaw v. Shaw, 2008 ONCJ 130 (CanLII)
[4] Before I continue with the immediate family law narrative, I must make several observations on a continuing problem with how criminal procedures impact and pre-empt sound family law tenets.
[5] The events after the arrest of Ms. Shaw do not, in retrospect, show the police, the Crown, counsel or the criminal judicial system in a good light, although her story is commonplace. These events have become routine and predictable in almost every allegation of spousal assault such that there is presumably some policy guiding the police and the Crown attorney and forestalling professional discretion in all such matters, no matter how remote the assault may be in time or indeed how trivial the contact. Spouses of every walk of life and often with completely unblemished prior character are routinely detained for a formal bail hearing for such assaults. Invariably, the defendant (not yet convicted) is excluded from his or her home and prevented from exercising custody of or access to the defendant’s children without any consideration of the factors that this court must apply by law before determining incidents of custody or access. This is not for one moment to diminish the impact of spousal abuse on family members and children in Canada. Spousal assaults are by nature serious and there are very sound policy reasons to lay such charges and have them proceed through the judicial system to ultimate resolution if not diverted. I observe, however, that the damage of which I speak is not from the laying of the charge — this will happen in any event, regardless of the manner in which the defendant is brought before the court. The way that the criminal justice system approaches the commencement of these matters, however, often wreaks family law havoc with the family unit of the defendant and the complainant, and in particular the children of those parties. Family courts decide custody and access issues on the basis of statute and case law defining the best interests of the children. The criminal justice system pays no attention to such interests because it is not geared up to do so nor are the participants widely trained in how the actions of the system — from the officer who refuses to release the defendant at the station, to the duty counsel who allows the defendant to agree to inappropriate conditions of release out of expediency — effect the lives of the members of the defendant’s family. Similarly the Superior Court is tasked with the duty of adjudicating the respective rights of the parties to remain in the matrimonial home pending the resolution of the matrimonial litigation. Routine orders excluding a party from the common home of the parties until the end of the criminal matter without thought to the consequences thereof, and without a remedy short of a bail review, place one party in a position of immediate superiority over the other party for as long as it takes (perhaps a year) for defended criminal charges to be resolved. Such rote treatment of all matters of domestic assault can lead, on the one hand, to concocted or exaggerated claims of criminal behaviour or, on the other hand, to innocent defendants pleading guilty at an early stage out of expediency or a shared desire with the complainant to start to rehabilitate the family unit.
[6] Ms. Shaw’s case illustrates the dangers of speedy or discretionless criminal procedure.
[8] I do not know what advice Mr. Shaw received from the unnamed lawyer whom he consulted before, as he put it, asking for charges to be laid. I can only hope that no licensed lawyer in this province would have advised the father that the fastest way to get custody and exclusive possession of the family home was to report the mother’s transgressions to the police.
[9] I do not know with what police officers Mr. Shaw had contact at the Shelburne Police Service. I can only hope that the officers whom he saw there do not believe that complainants in criminal matters decide whether charges are, or are not, to be laid.
I highly recommend you read this decision in full May_May prior to doing anything and review this case law with your solicitor prior to contacting the police.
Good Luck!
Tayken
hadenough
New member
Thank-you Tayken, for the "awareness" to all sides that you deliver to this forum by way of documented and factual information. Or.. as I think you have taught us all - the words (and how they relate to one another) "cogent, relevant, evidence." I recently used those exact words in an email correspondence in which I was requesting verification of something.
standing on the sidelines
New member
Tayken are you suggesting that May May is thinking of using a questionable DV claim??
wretchedotis
New member
The implication here is that someone laid their hands on you, and caused bruising.
Well, I would expect there to be some sort of 'fear' instilled as a result.
Unless it was consensual. Rough sex maybe? Did you cave and have a 'booty call'?
Other then something along those lines - how could one not become 'afraid' of the violence being projected by the other? Do you not 'fear' a repeat occurance? Even worse a repeat in front of the child(s)?
I can imagine that maybe you are trying to be a 'tough cookie' and say it didn't phase you and therefore you have no fear as a result. But I would think your just trying to show your bravado in saying there is no 'fear' resulting from the incident.
If that's the case - please stop trying to be the stone figure with no feelings on the subject.
I suspect you already know the answer to your question - as you are hesitant to proceed with filing a report before testing the waters here.
Do the right thing - whatever that may be. You already know what that is - don't you?
Personally I'm not affected by fear all that much, in some cases it's an advantage, in other cases it gets me into trouble. I've worked in some rough and tumble jobs like doorman at a bar, I also take a lot of chances doing things like downhill mountain biking. That shouldn't be held against me in court, charges should be laid according to the other person's behaviour and intent. If they intend to intimate me or injure me, it doesn't matter if I am a hard ass, they have still broken the law.
hadenough
New member
Frequently Asked Questions
^ Frequently Asked Questions - and the Mandate of The Halton Regional Police Services.
^ Frequently Asked Questions - and the Mandate of The Halton Regional Police Services.
May_May
New member
Tayken ! Thank you again ! I will be bringing this to her this week.
HE-Thanks for the link, as well as this. Agreed completely...
wretchedotis
New member
It's happened twice?
I encourage you to file a report.
Violence in any form is unacceptable, and often times escalates. By not doing anything about it you're telling him it's acceptable to you. And by that logic - it's ok if he uses a weapon next time (false logic - but so be it).
Your concerns are admirable - but I can tell you that it will only prevent him from seeing the kids if you persue that avenue.
I think it would be reasonable that he need have a third party present for exchanges, in order to prevent future occurances. But he won't have his access taken away as a result (unless you push for it through family court).
It would make things more difficult for him - but those would be consequences of his own making.
I encourage you to file a report.
Violence in any form is unacceptable, and often times escalates. By not doing anything about it you're telling him it's acceptable to you. And by that logic - it's ok if he uses a weapon next time (false logic - but so be it).
Your concerns are admirable - but I can tell you that it will only prevent him from seeing the kids if you persue that avenue.
I think it would be reasonable that he need have a third party present for exchanges, in order to prevent future occurances. But he won't have his access taken away as a result (unless you push for it through family court).
It would make things more difficult for him - but those would be consequences of his own making.
Tayken
Well-known member
I am petrified of my ex (my children are too). Even in my own backyard, I can not sit alone, that is how bad it is. Coming from my perspective (which I will tell you is now definitely biased), I would file a report with the police. These things can escalate and FAST! Then I try to look at it from a rational standpoint, and I'd say, the advice given of public encounters and third party witnesses are probably your best bet. Maybe these are just small isolated incidents that will never escalate and with always being in public, nothing to worry about, so why open that can of worms right. In my situation (and we haven't been together in years or seen eachother outside of court), public, had no effect on him. Even in the courthouse waiting room, he stood in front of me clenched his fists and gritted his teeth, if the police were not right there, I have no doubt in my mind his hands would have been around my throat once again.