Does social assistance count as income in calculating support?
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Berner_Faith
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I believe EI is calculated in but social assistance I don't believe is. I speak from mt bf's experience as when he first separated she took everything from him and before separation he lost his job, he was not entitled to EI so when separation happened he was force to go onto Ontario Works because he could not find a job in the area he resided at the time.
When he did get a job he started paying support immediately... when the lawyers got involved she tried to go for back support and Section 7 expenses... in the end he was not responsible for back support or expenses because OW was not a source of income... this was only his situation so I am not sure if its the same as everyone.
That being said, when he applied for OW and he told them he had kids he was asked if there was a court order for support. Nothing had gone to court or lawyers at this time and he was told that without a court order that OW would not pay CS... so I can only assume that if one is on Social Assistance and there is a court order they may be given money to pay for CS.
When he did get a job he started paying support immediately... when the lawyers got involved she tried to go for back support and Section 7 expenses... in the end he was not responsible for back support or expenses because OW was not a source of income... this was only his situation so I am not sure if its the same as everyone.
That being said, when he applied for OW and he told them he had kids he was asked if there was a court order for support. Nothing had gone to court or lawyers at this time and he was told that without a court order that OW would not pay CS... so I can only assume that if one is on Social Assistance and there is a court order they may be given money to pay for CS.
billiechic
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I dont see why OW wouldnt be a source of income. Why should someone who has unintentionally become unemployed and EI be obligated to support their child, and not someone who either quit their job, or otherwise is not working be exempt.
I'm pretty sure that there is an obligation there, but that maybe the amount OW gives is so low that the amount of CS due is basically nil.
I'm pretty sure that there is an obligation there, but that maybe the amount OW gives is so low that the amount of CS due is basically nil.
Berner_Faith
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I agree Billie...but what his worker told him is because there was no court order, no support would be paid...I guess it comes down to that OW only provides what is needed to survive (most of the time) when he was receiving OW, they paid his rent and gave him $200 a month for groceries. Like I stated, this was only my bf's situation and I know when she tried for back CS and expenses, she was not granted them because he was on OW.
billiechic
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Makes sense. No money = no CS.
But the worker was probably explaining it wrong in terms of OW not being income. He is right about the court order. You cant garnish unless there is one.
But the worker was probably explaining it wrong in terms of OW not being income. He is right about the court order. You cant garnish unless there is one.
billiechic is the closest of the lot - sorry haven't figured yet Go Girl! Or should it be There Dude! (sorry don't have a good high five for a guy yet??) so to the OP:
All money coming in is a source of income for support. Social, CPP WCB, ONtario Works, Standing on the corner with a cup because you have no choice - it all iin seriousness is up for suppport coonciderations. CPP all along offered a stipend of $218ish a child and as they turned 18 the payment changed in that the child is then paid direct as long as they meet the rules.
CPP will give the child the stipend (as will other social support systems like Ontario Works but not to confuse this post -support is paid to the recipient untill they are 18 years old) but if the child goes to school and if they remain in full time school and are under 25. This is a form of assisstance for the children that I just am not able to provide as a dad - I do not even have enough for me at $900 a month. MY $900 and her employment income will both go into the pot and after taxes (I believe after tax) the money available to us is then divided at a ratio as determined by the level of support and the length of time - will be the level of SS that will be considered.
I have to prove or show why I have not worked for the last 8 years and what is my prognosis today and from there she will not be able to impute income because of my health. But I will pay support to the children - level I was told by the lawyer the money the kids get from CPP will more then cover my support obligations. (actually they exceed the obligation by 80% or more so that is good for the kids cuz they can use the funds for school. The kids also work part time and use the modest RESP's to cover maybe 3 semesters and a little for books.)
Sorry back on track..... people who end up on EI along the way between jobs - the lawyers will not care for too long - you hear of ex's having to have the courts impute a fair income for the ex who just will not come up to the plate and support their family. CS is for a very long time..... not when the payor feel likes it. DIVORCE is hard on everyone - nobody wins. (If there is a winner then it is because they were not together long and there was no children- with a very short marriage that support can be fairly low and not that long..... we are all called on to be self sufficent to the best of out ability and we are to do the same for our chilren. The children deserve to be supported to the level they were accustomed when thier parents were still together....... I am gabbing now so I stop!!!!!! Hope this helps.
All money coming in is a source of income for support. Social, CPP WCB, ONtario Works, Standing on the corner with a cup because you have no choice - it all iin seriousness is up for suppport coonciderations. CPP all along offered a stipend of $218ish a child and as they turned 18 the payment changed in that the child is then paid direct as long as they meet the rules.
CPP will give the child the stipend (as will other social support systems like Ontario Works but not to confuse this post -support is paid to the recipient untill they are 18 years old) but if the child goes to school and if they remain in full time school and are under 25. This is a form of assisstance for the children that I just am not able to provide as a dad - I do not even have enough for me at $900 a month. MY $900 and her employment income will both go into the pot and after taxes (I believe after tax) the money available to us is then divided at a ratio as determined by the level of support and the length of time - will be the level of SS that will be considered.
I have to prove or show why I have not worked for the last 8 years and what is my prognosis today and from there she will not be able to impute income because of my health. But I will pay support to the children - level I was told by the lawyer the money the kids get from CPP will more then cover my support obligations. (actually they exceed the obligation by 80% or more so that is good for the kids cuz they can use the funds for school. The kids also work part time and use the modest RESP's to cover maybe 3 semesters and a little for books.)
Sorry back on track..... people who end up on EI along the way between jobs - the lawyers will not care for too long - you hear of ex's having to have the courts impute a fair income for the ex who just will not come up to the plate and support their family. CS is for a very long time..... not when the payor feel likes it. DIVORCE is hard on everyone - nobody wins. (If there is a winner then it is because they were not together long and there was no children- with a very short marriage that support can be fairly low and not that long..... we are all called on to be self sufficent to the best of out ability and we are to do the same for our chilren. The children deserve to be supported to the level they were accustomed when thier parents were still together....... I am gabbing now so I stop!!!!!! Hope this helps.
NBDad
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Social Assistance/Ontario Works is effectively ZERO income. If the person drawing it is CAPABLE of working, you can try and have an income imputed equal to full time hours at minimum wage.
BUT...drawing assistance is seen as zero income in the eyes of the court, at least according to my QC rated, $400 an hour lawyer with over 30 years of experience.
(I think it has more to do with the amount received by the individual person being so low as to be UNDER the minimum standards for CS to be paid, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter WHY. If the capability is there, there are avenues you can take (vis a vis imputing income). )
I was in a similar boat with my ex...and still am...she prefers to sit on assistance and do nothing to contribute to the kids. Lawyer advised me to save my money, since it's akin to getting blood from a stone.
EDIT: EI counts as income, since it directly affects your line 150 amounts.
BUT...drawing assistance is seen as zero income in the eyes of the court, at least according to my QC rated, $400 an hour lawyer with over 30 years of experience.
(I think it has more to do with the amount received by the individual person being so low as to be UNDER the minimum standards for CS to be paid, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter WHY. If the capability is there, there are avenues you can take (vis a vis imputing income). )
I was in a similar boat with my ex...and still am...she prefers to sit on assistance and do nothing to contribute to the kids. Lawyer advised me to save my money, since it's akin to getting blood from a stone.
EDIT: EI counts as income, since it directly affects your line 150 amounts.
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billiechic
New member
I'll take the "Go Girl!" since I am a woman!
Thanks for all the responses.
Social assistance does also. Is it solely based upon line 150, then?
Social assistance does also. Is it solely based upon line 150, then?
Line 150 is the starting point, but the circumstances of the case will dictate the amount of CS awarded.
The way I see it, whether you earn 10k per year via employment or social assistance, you pay CS. Albeit a small amount, you still pay.
Agreed. And the opposite should hold true for kids who see their mom or dad avoiding support like the plague. They will remember for a lifetime; just not in a positive light.
Social Assistance is included on line 145 of your income tax return. Line 145 is included in the line 150 total.
billiechic
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sure, it is under the threshold, but it is still income. It will be included in the calculation should someone get a job later in the year. Annual income will be social assistance plus salary, and CS will be based on that.
funny how we are now saying the same things in different ways but iin the end it doesn't really change at all.
Any type of income (and I do believe there could be a rare few special benefits that one may get a check for that benefit but it is not a taxable benefit)
All taxable income is what support is based on and it is the year total they do the calculation on. A payor who goes thru a rough patch and gets paid nil for three months and can't get EI and is not eligable for Ontario Works....... if you have a fair ex, your ex will recognize you are not screwing around and fairness would say both would share in the hardship (no different than if the marriage was still in effect - we figure out how to do it with less money - but we ususally find a way!) Now in this new life and your ex doesn't care one poop about your poop then your ex will scream blue murder to get the full amount owing - TODAY - even if the money is just not there.
I was too slow again! Teenwolf beat me to looking at our income tax forms and reading the various lines and where they come in and social is line 145 and look at all the other types of income - they are there all before 150 because Line 150 is a person's TOTAL income - you may get a deduction later on but income is income. This si why(sorry the accountant who knew this stuff really well) was really onto the fact that going line 150 was an easy way to do this but was not the accurate way to do it when odd incomes and odd deuctions came into play - line 150 worked well only for the 9-5 standard employee type income - I can't elaborate much more than if this is your circumstance learn everything you can period - it is YOUR responsability because nobody else will do it if you. if both of you are happy going with the simple line 150 - then go for line 150 and stay with line 150 from then on.........
Any type of income (and I do believe there could be a rare few special benefits that one may get a check for that benefit but it is not a taxable benefit)
All taxable income is what support is based on and it is the year total they do the calculation on. A payor who goes thru a rough patch and gets paid nil for three months and can't get EI and is not eligable for Ontario Works....... if you have a fair ex, your ex will recognize you are not screwing around and fairness would say both would share in the hardship (no different than if the marriage was still in effect - we figure out how to do it with less money - but we ususally find a way!) Now in this new life and your ex doesn't care one poop about your poop then your ex will scream blue murder to get the full amount owing - TODAY - even if the money is just not there.
I was too slow again! Teenwolf beat me to looking at our income tax forms and reading the various lines and where they come in and social is line 145 and look at all the other types of income - they are there all before 150 because Line 150 is a person's TOTAL income - you may get a deduction later on but income is income. This si why(sorry the accountant who knew this stuff really well) was really onto the fact that going line 150 was an easy way to do this but was not the accurate way to do it when odd incomes and odd deuctions came into play - line 150 worked well only for the 9-5 standard employee type income - I can't elaborate much more than if this is your circumstance learn everything you can period - it is YOUR responsability because nobody else will do it if you. if both of you are happy going with the simple line 150 - then go for line 150 and stay with line 150 from then on.........
It does seem like social assistance is income but maybe only the part that the adult gets not the part that any children get.
Schedule III of FCSG says:
Social assistance
4. Adjust social assistance income to include the amount determined to be attributable to the spouse.
Still confused about this.
Schedule III of FCSG says:
Social assistance
4. Adjust social assistance income to include the amount determined to be attributable to the spouse.
Still confused about this.
to make positive - CPP gives a stipend or a payment for each child - you are told how much for each child and it comes in one deposit (I take direct deposit) so the deposit has all the money they are giving you. Your TP4 slip has the full amount on the first line and then they deduct the amounts for the children. In the end you are getting income only for yourself and this is what is indicated on your year end income tax slip and is what you declare for support. The support for the kids follow the kids so if they do not live with you you must give it to the gaurdian or the spouse who is taking care of your children full time. What if you are say a 50/50 split or 30/70 split - the childrens stipend will follow the kids in that ratio (I am almost certain!)
You are repsonsible by law to report to CPP and I am sure all the other social type payors, again, you are responsible to report where your children are living, for how long, who is the other person taking care of the kids. The body paying out the money for the children will make sure the children are getting it (they will stop payment on a dime if they suspect anything other than what is the law being followed by the recipients. Last is you can call your social payor and they will give you a letter that spells out exactly what is paid, who gets it and where it is "delivered" once a year I believe.
Divorce - this is the first thing you do to confirm income (this is your paycheck) they will spell out exactly what is happening no question - this is how the numbers are or will be entered and whatever is allocated to the children will for sure be ensured (I really and sincerely hope they will follow up on the children's support coming from a social source like CPP is getting to the Children. As soon as a child reaches 18 the very next month the payment goes direct to the child as long as they meet the rules for continued support 9going to school full time is one).
I am typed out but I think I really spelled out how the kids work - and call them yourself every year as an automatic confirmation of what money and why or to whom the different monies are paid - then put the letter in a file..... you will need it to do your taxes peoperly if you are not 100% clear with anything - they are happy to help you to get it straight as it is thier job...... they (CPP Disability Pension) have always been real nice and helpfull x 10 to me.
You are repsonsible by law to report to CPP and I am sure all the other social type payors, again, you are responsible to report where your children are living, for how long, who is the other person taking care of the kids. The body paying out the money for the children will make sure the children are getting it (they will stop payment on a dime if they suspect anything other than what is the law being followed by the recipients. Last is you can call your social payor and they will give you a letter that spells out exactly what is paid, who gets it and where it is "delivered" once a year I believe.
Divorce - this is the first thing you do to confirm income (this is your paycheck) they will spell out exactly what is happening no question - this is how the numbers are or will be entered and whatever is allocated to the children will for sure be ensured (I really and sincerely hope they will follow up on the children's support coming from a social source like CPP is getting to the Children. As soon as a child reaches 18 the very next month the payment goes direct to the child as long as they meet the rules for continued support 9going to school full time is one).
I am typed out but I think I really spelled out how the kids work - and call them yourself every year as an automatic confirmation of what money and why or to whom the different monies are paid - then put the letter in a file..... you will need it to do your taxes peoperly if you are not 100% clear with anything - they are happy to help you to get it straight as it is thier job...... they (CPP Disability Pension) have always been real nice and helpfull x 10 to me.
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