Do i address, or not address EX's random cancellations?

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hadenough

hadenough

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Background: EX and I do not speak. Separated 2007. Child is now 13. Dad has EOW access and Wednesday's afterschool until 8pm. Trial: Re CS/SS was just over a year ago. EX's income was imputed at mid 80k range - he's not paying the ordered amt.
Case is registered w/FRO but not assigned yet w/a case #

2 questions:

- Access order is EOW and Wednesdays. The Wednesdays have already been obliterated (cancelled) by the ex with the child. Twice now, in just the last 2 months, EX has told child "can't see you on (the next) weekend, he is to have him. I find this stuff out after the fact (from S13). ie: he was at Dad's last wknd and just yesterday S13 says, "oh, Dad can't see me (on the next scheduled wknd) b/c he's gonna be busy."

Do I address this via email with EX just for clarification purposes? He does all of these cancellations with the child, and tells me nothing. My son says he doesn't care if he sees him or not. I'm not concerned that EX will say I'm denying access - but the access order states one thing, and he does the opposite, and it's getting to the point where I am guessing, there will be less and less of the EOW's.

- As for the Short Paid CS - FRO will deal with that. But I'd like to file a MTC (motion to change) the order. A lawyer I spoke to said she'd need a $3000 retainer. I'd like to file it myself. Is it complicated? I think it's Form 15. I'd like Section 7 expenses included and Life Insurance Policy to secure the CS/SS. These are things I asked my previous lawyer to argue/ask for, and he did NOT - so it was not made part of the Final Support Order (which is being ignored by ex, as well). There have been material changes in circumstance since the Sept/2011 order was made.

Thanks, hoping someone has some suggestions/input.
 
Hi Hadenough,

As a father it is distressing to hear that your ex is not child focused. I think that is the key in everything that you do, remain child focused.

Email is a good form of communication to use in this type of situation, as you have an audit trail of what was happened. Is your ex a reasonably good father despite his lack of paying support and canceling visits? If so, I would lay out your concerns to him briefly and remind him how important it is for a child to have positive, loving relationships with both parents(tactfully). Also, I would stress that the child must not be put in the middle and you want all schedule cancellations/modifications to be communicated with you prior to your child knowing about them. Stress that this is in your Son's best interests.

Be careful about what your son says to you. It is not easy for a child to have a parent that cancels on him. I lived through that for most of my childhood. I would be willing to bet that your son cares very much whether he sees his dad or not and may be trying to talk himself out of how much it hurts. I obviously don't know your son though, so I might be completely wrong.

I did a motion to change by myself and also self represented myself through a 5 day trial. It is not easy but it can be done.

Before you start though, I suggest you weigh very carefully whether it is worth starting a court process. FRO should take care of enforcing the support order eventually, though that is not much help to you now, it will happen. Court is not a quick process, as I am sure you are aware. Would your ex be open to mediation? There is generally free mediation available in the court offices, so I suggest you contact your Family Law Info Centre to fine out about that. Also, you can do Mediation/Arbitration, which can be faster than court. Talk to the FLIC about this.

Are there a lot of section 7 expenses? If he is supposed to pay based on $80K of income, plus spousal support, it will be difficult to argue that an expense is extraordinary if it is not actually quite expensive compared to the base support amount. What is the material change in circumstances? It must be something that was unforeseen at the time of the original order.

All the forms you need are here:

Family Law Rules Forms — Ontario Court Services

Information on the motion to change is here:

Motions to Change - Ministry of the Attorney General


Caselaw can be researched here:

CanLII

If there is a law library at a university near you, you can do research there as well. The annotated guides are very good as they reference case law by section of rules and laws.

Annotated Family Law Rules
Annotated Family Law Act
Annotated Children's Law Reform Act
Annotated Divorce Act

Those are the big ones.

Let me know if I can be of any other help.

-K
 
Thank you so much for your in-depth response. Yes, it is distressing and although S13 appears to be 'fine' with all of this I too have concerns that there is underlying hurt/resentment. How can there NOT be?

No, the ex is not otherwise reasonable or logical at all. He is totally high conflict and lies about pretty much everything/anything. I do occasionally search Case Law on CanLii - my matter is on there as well. Thx again! I will take a thorough look at the MTC info.

We had a 3 day trial. I def don't want to start a whole process over again, but mediation is absolutely not an option. If it were, I/we never would have got to Trial.

Good for you, self-repping - I can imagine that it is a daunting task.
 
He's treating you like a babysitter. If you have plans what do you do, cancel your parenting time?

Address this in an e-mail to your ex. and have a conversation with your son as well. If his dad is busy, then he either includes child in the plans or he makes alternate arrangements.

If child ends up staying home alone and being bored, so be it. It is not your job to make sure everything is okay between the two of them.
 
If your ex is high conflict that makes it really difficult. Mine is the same way and involves our child in every step of the litigation. Difficult to prove but easy to see the impact that it has.

I suggest that you check out the following two books. I have found them helpful in dealing with a high conflict ex.

BIFF sounds kind of funny but it works. Brief, Informative, Friendly and Firm. Firm is easy, Friendly, not so much. It gives you strategies on how to respond to emails and other communications.

Splitting by Bill Eddy, ISBN 978-1-60882-025-2
BIFF - Quick Responses to High Conflict People by Bill Eddy, ISBN 978-1-936268-35-1

Best of luck! I know how difficult it can be.

Let me know if I can help in any other way.

-K
 
Thanks, might msg you later. Yes, Bill Eddy's books are very good. Have read one of them. Was @library recently and they had ZERO books by him! I'll go to Chapter's soon. I love going to Chapters anyway :)

FWTE: agree, (that) no it's not my "job" and I'm inclined to say nothing at all. We do not speak to one another and even emails are few and far between. I'm not sure how/if I will address this w/him. Ultimately, it's pretty pointless. I can see where this is headed anyway. My son is an upbeat, fun, popular and active kid. I think he's done remarkably well throughout the past 5 years with all that has gone on.
 
@frustrated

I am not sure how your suggestions would actually solve anything. I think the feelings of abandonment might actually be worse in that situation. If the father is not responsible, and it certainly sounds that way, then he isn't going to make alternate arrangements.

It actually is our job to encourage a positive relationship with our ex, no matter how distasteful it is.
 
I should add: my issue w/addressing (or not) is strictly for clarification of the 1) Cancelled (all) Wednesdays and 2) just to have a record of the cancellations made from father to son.

I was not going to go into how my son may or may not feel with regards to all of it. I do not reveal to ex what my son confides in me, when he so chooses to.
 
suzukiguy72 said:
@frustrated

I am not sure how your suggestions would actually solve anything. I think the feelings of abandonment might actually be worse in that situation. If the father is not responsible, and it certainly sounds that way, then he isn't going to make alternate arrangements.

It actually is our job to encourage a positive relationship with our ex, no matter how distasteful it is.
Click to expand...

I agree, encourage a positive relationship, don't model being a door mat.

I have lived this, when I started to respond in an assertive, not agressive, manner, I felt better.

Ex still responds agressively, 'all whoa is me, he's a victim, fix it for him', type e-mails. I don't bite. BIFF, for me, is the only way I communicate.

Does he in turn put our children in the middle, absolutley, every chance he gets.

The reality is, he did this when we were together. I couldn't stop him then, and I can't stop him now. I couldn't make it better for the kids then, and I can't now.

He is responsible for what comes out of his mouth. He has to live with the consequences of his words and actions.

Do I have empathy for my kids when they are upset, absolutley. I help them deal with their emotions. I don't tell them that their dad is wrong. They don't need this, and they don't need me to step in and make it better with their dad by telling their dad how to parent. This creates more conflict.

They are going to encounter people like this all the time. In school and at work with coworkers as well as bosses. This is a way to teach them how to stand up for themselves. I am helping them deal with this at work right now.

Of course this is my opinion based on my experience.

Of course I also worry about how this impacts the kids, I'm not without feeling. I see the impact of what he says to them and it brings me to my knees sometimes, but I can't fix it for them.
 
Quote "I agree, encourage a positive relationship, don't model being a door mat."

Quote "The reality is, he did this when we were together. I couldn't stop him then, and I can't stop him now. I couldn't make it better for the kids then, and I can't now."

^ I'm not sure if you're suggesting that I am a door mat, or if you felt at one time that that's how you were being regarded. Either way, I'm far from a door mat. The inevitable lost relationship with his son will one day be the cost of his actions/behaviour. I too (as you said) couldn't stop him then, and I can't stop him now - nor am I attempting to.

The question was - should the cancellations be referred to in an email, and perhaps a few suggestions as to 'wording' - simply so that there is a RECORD of it? I don't 'expect' to be back in Court w/him on this, but one never knows. He lies, A LOT. He might claim that I am denying access (for example). He's been known to come up with all sorts of ridiculous and groundless stories.
 
How about just sending a quick email saying something along the lines of...

"It was brought to my attention that on (insert date), you will not be picking up S13. Please confirm if this is correct or not."

Then a thank you at the end... something short and sweet... if he doesn't respond... oh well, at least you have it on record that you sent it to him.
 
Berner_Faith said:
How about just sending a quick email saying something along the lines of...

"It was brought to my attention that on (insert date), you will not be picking up S13. Please confirm if this is correct or not."

Then a thank you at the end... something short and sweet... if he doesn't respond... oh well, at least you have it on record that you sent it to him.
Click to expand...
No all she has is proof she wrote an email. I can write and email and print it off and not send it.(not that i think the OP would do that.) If she gets a response back from him then that would be proof.
 
standing on the sidelines said:
No all she has is proof she wrote an email. I can write and email and print it off and not send it.(not that i think the OP would do that.) If she gets a response back from him then that would be proof.
Click to expand...

She would at least have it in her outbox and if she requests a read receipt she would have more proof... if he doesn't communicate with her it is highly unlikely he will respond to the email anyways...

However, there are certain email providers you can use where they automatically send you a read receipt, without the other party knowing.
 
hadenough said:
2 questions:

- Access order is EOW and Wednesdays. The Wednesdays have already been obliterated (cancelled) by the ex with the child. Twice now, in just the last 2 months, EX has told child "can't see you on (the next) weekend, he is to have him. I find this stuff out after the fact (from S13). ie: he was at Dad's last wknd and just yesterday S13 says, "oh, Dad can't see me (on the next scheduled wknd) b/c he's gonna be busy."
Click to expand...

Send an e-mail to the ex. say something like;

According to our court order our dear son is to spend time with you on Wednesdays. If you are not available let me know ahead of time, (you can insert a time period if you like). When you are not available I need to make alternate plans as well.

If I have not heard from you by Sunday, I will expect dear son to be picked up for his regular Wednesday time with you. (or weekend time).

I ask that you not involve our child with this communication. Involving our dear son puts him in the middle.

hadenough said:
Do I address this via email with EX just for clarification purposes? He does all of these cancellations with the child, and tells me nothing. My son says he doesn't care if he sees him or not. I'm not concerned that EX will say I'm denying access - but the access order states one thing, and he does the opposite, and it's getting to the point where I am guessing, there will be less and less of the EOW's.

Thanks, hoping someone has some suggestions/input
Click to expand...

You also need to have a conversation with your son and tell him not to accept the communication with his dad. If you want to be informed of your exs change in plans, your son needs to know it is okay to tell his dad to send you an email. He can tell his dad he doesn't always remember, and its best if he tells you directly anyways.
 
^ that sounds good. I will send something along those lines - and yes would be best if my son said (as per above) he doesn't always remember, and it's best if he tells me directly.

Thank-you for the feedback, everyone!
 
Update: Sent the email. Got the response. Pretty much what I expected I suppose. Darling of an EX stated/confirmed that "yes" (Wednesdays's were cancelled) and that he did not have to, nor did he seem to think it necessary to advise me of that (or any other) cancellations. His tone was one that was quite clear he is satisfied to communicate these matters to S13.

Okie Dokie.. I got my answer. ;)
 
hadenough said:
2 questions:

- Access order is EOW and Wednesdays. The Wednesdays have already been obliterated (cancelled) by the ex with the child. Twice now, in just the last 2 months, EX has told child "can't see you on (the next) weekend, he is to have him. I find this stuff out after the fact (from S13). ie: he was at Dad's last wknd and just yesterday S13 says, "oh, Dad can't see me (on the next scheduled wknd) b/c he's gonna be busy."

Do I address this via email with EX just for clarification purposes? He does all of these cancellations with the child, and tells me nothing. My son says he doesn't care if he sees him or not. I'm not concerned that EX will say I'm denying access - but the access order states one thing, and he does the opposite, and it's getting to the point where I am guessing, there will be less and less of the EOW's.
Click to expand...

Your access order says EOW and Wednesdays. If he doesn't want the Wednesdays then he needs to get the order changed.

frustratedwithex said:
He's treating you like a babysitter. If you have plans what do you do, cancel your parenting time?

Address this in an e-mail to your ex. and have a conversation with your son as well. If his dad is busy, then he either includes child in the plans or he makes alternate arrangements.

If child ends up staying home alone and being bored, so be it. It is not your job to make sure everything is okay between the two of them.
Click to expand...

I still stand by this statement.

You can't make the relationship between your son and his dad better. That is his dad's responsibility.

hadenough said:
I should add: my issue w/addressing (or not) is strictly for clarification of the 1) Cancelled (all) Wednesdays and 2) just to have a record of the cancellations made from father to son.

I was not going to go into how my son may or may not feel with regards to all of it. I do not reveal to ex what my son confides in me, when he so chooses to.
Click to expand...

I think you got this clarification in response to your email.


hadenough said:
Update: Sent the email. Got the response. Pretty much what I expected I suppose. Darling of an EX stated/confirmed that "yes" (Wednesdays's were cancelled) and that he did not have to, nor did he seem to think it necessary to advise me of that (or any other) cancellations. His tone was one that was quite clear he is satisfied to communicate these matters to S13.

Okie Dokie.. I got my answer.
Click to expand...

No surprise there, you expected him to respond this way. You wanted an email where he admitted this so you couldn't be accused of with holding access, and that is what you have.

If you want to change the situation, you don't have to end the email with his response. You can reply back to him.

You can say something like,"Just to clarify, you no longer want to abide by the court order and no longer wish continue your access to see dear son on Wednesdays. The weekend time will stand as is ordered, and if I don't hear from you by,(insert day you want to know by if he is cancelling) then I will expect dear son to be picked up for his regular weekend with you.

It is not our son's job to handle communication between us and I ask that you not involve him.

Rinse/repeat and continue to tell your son that it is okay to tell dad that he needs to communicate with you. If you want to be informed and not left out, then you have to keep communicating with your ex. If you accept it as is, you are also controlling the situation as much as the ex. is.
 
Here we go: another last minute cancellation. I addressed it most properly this time, thanks to my 'training' I've rec'd from members on this forum. And ohhh did I get a fabulous response (from ex).

I am quite financially f*cked at the moment - to put it bluntly. My question is - if I were to chart the last few months cancellations by ex - and the court order is eow access and Wednesday evenings (for him) - am I in any way, on a motion to vary entitled to a higher amount of CS?

The Wednesdays got unilaterally cancelled by him quite some time ago. They would typically see a movie, and then get dinner. Not only was this time spent w/"dad" for the child, (seeing movies is a bit lame, but whatever) but it also relieved me for an evening whether it be free time, and of course making dinner. I figure these cancelled Wed's have saved him a good (say) $120/month.

Then there's the wknds he cancels. Great. There's more time he's proving to son how lame and useless he is (part of this wknds excuse was "we are really broke." - yes, he msged that to the child. It is bs, AND he msged that to the child). What kind of a LOSER says that? I'll answer that. A hopeless, pathetic one. Oh, and btw: I followed mostly "frustratedwithex's" advice in the last email I sent to him.

So - based on his even LESS time (spent w/child) than EOW - which on top of not exactly helping me to have much of a personal life - and costs me more money (of the short paid amount he submits to FRO) - I don't know how to calculate the "percentage of time" he IS "actually spending" w/child.. Does this mean I could theoretically seek to have the c/s increased, and the order changed to reflect the access time that (on average) is exercised?

Thank-you.
 
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I may have read your post wrong but I don't believe you can ask for extra cs because he doesn't exercise his access. Wed evenings & EOW is not 50/50 split, in essence the child's primary address is yours which is what the CS order would have been based on (Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). For 1 child based on 80k $724/m in Ontario

FRO is a slow moving process no question about it.

I can count on one hand how many times my x has exercised his Wednesday evening access. He never put in writing that he wouldn't be exercising this he just never bothered showing up after a few times. He does cancel his EOW on occasion and it is written in our agreement that he must give 24hrs notice (in reality it is usually less than 2 hrs notice) or informs us that he will be picking them up the next day instead.

You can't force him to take his child & making a fuss about it only makes the child feel he's unwanted or a burden in both homes. I've never made an issue out of it & always considered it as 'bonus time' for me with the children. Yes it's inconvenient if you already have plans, at 13 he can be on his own in the house for a few hours if you have dinner plans, etc. If you are comfortable with his friends' mothers you can always ask to impose on them if you can't cancel offering to reciprocate by taking their son overnight the next weekend.
 
Quote by totd "You can't force him to take his child & making a fuss about it only makes the child feel he's unwanted or a burden in both homes. I've never made an issue out of it & always considered it as 'bonus time' for me with the children. Yes it's inconvenient if you already have plans, at 13 he can be on his own in the house for a few hours if you have dinner plans, etc. If you are comfortable with his friends' mothers you can always ask to impose on them if you can't cancel offering to reciprocate by taking their son overnight the next weekend."

Thank-you. I agree and for the record, I do not try to force or impose the access. My son now jumps at the chance to give 'weekends at dad's' a swerve. As for sleepovers- my God it's been one massive sleepover since school let out. Often over here - other times over @the friend's houses.

True. At 13, he can be left home alone. Problem with that is - sometimes my "entertainment" plans don't necessarily involve my "going out" if you follow.

What if: (and no, this was not the case 'this' weekend) I'd had plans to fly to ie: another province, or to the States for the wkend? What then?

I know there are some decent dads out there. I know some personally. But my son's father is a total useless waste of (insert any of several words here).
 
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