Divorce for Adultery

I understand all the mudslinging complications that can ensue with requesting a divorce on the grounds of adultery, and I agree that custody, access, equalization, support, etc are critical elements of separation that should be complete before the divorce is granted. However, if the agreement is done speedily, why not file for divorce ASAP if the option is there? It offers some emotional closure, especially for the religious, and enables the parties to redo their wills sooner, etc.

It would be awful to be separated, and die before the divorce is granted, and have your ex make a grab for your estate as they are technically still your legal spouse.

I know if the parties go to court it all become public record, but even if you do it all amicably, can just anybody access your filed agreement and divorce order?
If the ex fights it then its a court battle that may last longer then a year a cost a whole lot more money. Why open that can of worms when it can be over and do with, with less money spent fighting, in a years time?

The OP is hurting still (not sure if he found out about affairs all at once or knew as they each happened) and is reacting by wanting to make the STBX pay and to have it on record. He wants to put all the blame on the wife but there is probably a reason she cheated.

As for the ex having a claim on the estate if you are not divorced, that is wrong as long as there is a legal separation agreement. Mine states that once the agreement was signed that neither of us had claims on each others estates.
 
As for the ex having a claim on the estate if you are not divorced, that is wrong as long as there is a legal separation agreement. Mine states that once the agreement was signed that neither of us had claims on each others estates.

Thanks SOS. I had questions about this matter and will be discussing it with my lawyer today.
 
Something of a tangent, but an interesting point:

any adult has the obligation to tell someone who believes they are solely committed to them that they do have other sexual partners, especially when they are having unprotected sex. It is a health issue. Random guy says he's clean, but how do I know? He gives something to her and I get it, thinking that she was only having sex with me, that is a major problem to me. If you want to sleep with other people, go for it, but tell me so I can make an informed decision on who I'm sleeping with.
Someone who, knowing they have an STD (usually HIV), does not disclose this to another and has unprotected sex with them, has not obtained informed consent.

If your consent to sleep with your spouse is contingent upon their fidelity, have they committed sexual assault by not disclosing affairs? Does the health aspect become significant, or even determinative, if the potential health consequences are cited as the reason consent is vitiated in the event of "risk" affairs? Does it matter if the spouse believes they are clean, or that their affairs will not have negative health consequences?

While unlikely to see criminal prosecution, could this be battery under the law of torts?

If any adult is "ethically" obligated to tell the other party that they are having sex with someone else... Please sight the laws, rules and regulations that bind this person to this "ethical" obligation?
If a person has - for example - HIV, but does not know they have HIV (whether or not that ignorance is due to ignoring symptoms and going untested is irrelevant), transmission of it is not a crime. This remains true even if they have engaged in a promiscuous lifestyle without barrier protection.

In the context of the law... It [adultery] is not.
While there are no longer criminal sanctions against it, it is grounds for divorce which, in my opinion, indicates that it is "legally unethical".

It would be awful to be separated, and die before the divorce is granted, and have your ex make a grab for your estate as they are technically still your legal spouse.
If you have a will, they can only seek a division of property. If that division has already occurred they have received their share. Even if you are divorced, but if property is not equalized, this does not bar them from the claim if they are within limitations.

can just anybody access your filed agreement and divorce order?
Of course. The workings of our justice system are open to all people, who may ascertain that their country administers justice to satisfaction.
 
So I need to not present this yet.

Her bank accepted the unsigned draft SA for her mortgage, so now she's decided she wants changes to what we agreed to with a third party. It's a mess.

I may ask for the separation date to be changed into January (when she asked for the first time), but not sure of what the ramifications are of that. We've been pretty much separated since then anyways, just put July 1 as an "official date".
 
Of course I totally disagree with most of this thread.
Adultery is a breach of contract. Marriage is a contract.
Adultery, physical and mental cruelty are grounds for divorce in this country like it or not.
If you want to get out of your marriage quickly then you have the ability to do so. Your STBX can agree to swear an affidavit of adultery or she can make it mucky - her choice. She fucked around and got caught and now has to pay the consequence. Pretty cut-and-dried.
Talk to a lawyer and get out of this toxic relationship.
 
While there are no longer criminal sanctions against it, it is grounds for divorce which, in my opinion, indicates that it is "legally unethical".

What you forget to mention is that grounds for something with no guidance on how those grounds effect probability and are just grounds to conduct an action.

Without the grounds having any reciprocal element in legislature/law on how the grounds impact the courts decision they are grounded on being just grounds to bring an action.

What element of the Divorce Act under a "no fault" based legal system for divorce can a justice, beyond the establishing of grounds act on the "extramarital affair"? None... Other than granting a divorce. It is a legacy element that will eventually be removed from legislature probably in my opinion.

If we want to talk in the context of "legal ethics" it really is just an allowable claim with no further directive allowable on the claim other than making the claim itself. The only weight given to the evidence presented is on providing a divorce faster.

How on the balance of probabilities does a justice apply the rules of the Divorce Act when applying the "evidence". Just to grant a divorce. In a "no fault" system, it is just a basis for bringing the claim. No other element of the Divorce Act gives any prejudice to the extramarital affair other than a Rule allowing for a faster divorce.

So, in the context of this thread... and in the context of "legal ethics" the fact that it brings the ability for grounds for one small thing - a faster divorce order really doesn't lend it any weight as being "unethical" in my opinion.

Especially when the mere allegation of a "extramarital affair" and how it is used can be spun as "violence and abuse" under Rule 24.(4). (Read Lundy Bancroft.)

This element of the divorce act is a legacy element... To give it any weight and advise anyone that it has weight before the court is not good advice in my opinion.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Of course. The workings of our justice system are open to all people, who may ascertain that their country administers justice to satisfaction.

Thankfully. There are some interesting court files in the Niagara court house that have given me some additional insight and how to provide possibly better advice to this community.

Beyond the context of just legal matters, jurisprudence (case law) and publicly accessible court records is a fundamental principal of our legal system.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Someone who, knowing they have an STD (usually HIV), does not disclose this to another and has unprotected sex with them, has not obtained informed consent.

If your consent to sleep with your spouse is contingent upon their fidelity, have they committed sexual assault by not disclosing affairs?

No because the consent is between the two people engaged in the act.

Does the health aspect become significant, or even determinative, if the potential health consequences are cited as the reason consent is vitiated in the event of "risk" affairs?

No because the court doesn't act on suspicion but makes determinations on cogent and relevant evidence not ones fears and/or anxieties and/or worries about something happening. The court generally only orders on matters for which evidence to the fact has been established. Courts do not move on speculation generally...

Does it matter if the spouse believes they are clean, or that their affairs will not have negative health consequences?

No. Because the fact that someone has an affair is not clinically proven to cause a negative health consequence on the other non-involved party. This is where accute care and mental health differ quite significantly.

If this was the case everyone would be bringing claims of all sorts... For example, if I honk my horn at someone and they have a mental health breakdown am I responsible?

CAMH is not filled with people who have been the "victim" of an extramarital affair.

Also, I caution you on the use of the terminology "negative health consequences". This is only used in the context of determining subjective factors in a clinical encounter and is speculative for informational purposes. A diagnosis cannot be based on "consequences" as they are subjective observations not objective.

I am speaking purely from a ontology basis. Consequences are not "findings"... Vastly different in the context of establishing the "health and well being" of a patient.

While unlikely to see criminal prosecution, could this be battery under the law of torts?

Establishing the evidence that the person in question was aware that they had contracted HIV is the challenge really. You could bring a claim but, establishing the evidence is going to be difficult. (You can bring any claim if you want to court... Even a claim for ONE TRILLION BILLION DOLLARS!)

You have PHIPA to contend with, the privacy of the other party's health information etc... The civil court doesn't willy nilly hand over medical records on request. Incredible grounds has to be made for a court to order the medical records.

With the recent updates in legislation (in Ontario) to PHIPA it closes the door even more on accessibility of the medical information that would be necessary to establish when the person in question tested HIV positive and was notified (and understood) the results of the testing.

Most HIV testing is done through community clinics. The tests are de-identified. So, even if you did get an order allowing for the access to the medical records, good luck finding the matching lab result to the person in question.

If you are successful in establishing a date prior to the encounter that may have transferred HIV through evidence the next challenge in the tort would be establishing malice... That the person intended to transfer the infection to the other party. Which is a whole different ball of wax to deal with.

Medical information is protected... We don't make people publicly identify themselves as HIV positive. The laws allowing people who are HIV positive to mask their medical records was put in place for a reason... Just like we don't make diabetics, people with cancer, and people with other health conditions identify themselves.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
This element of the divorce act is a legacy element... To give it any weight and advise anyone that it has weight before the court is not good advice in my opinion.
I agree that it is a vestige of the old Divorce Act. It does, however, have weight before the court; it allows you to divorce your spouse. Not all remedies need to be monetary in nature.

Claims for divorce made for cause other than separation tend to be driven by emotion or inexperience. However, leading evidence of them is occasionally a tactic to attempt to add emotional charge to the separation. Opportunities to slag the personality of the other party's primary witness are viewed by some as advantageous.

No because the consent is between the two people engaged in the act.
The question is academic, and would be interesting to see litigated in a civil setting. Without any research or background in torts, I submit that it meets the de minimus test of civil assault, however damages would also be minimal. Similar to the sneezing case.
 
So it doesn't apply in Family Law except to reduce the waiting time.

It's not a crime. No Criminal Law.

What about contract law? Has anyone ever sued an ex-spouse for Breach of Contract and received damages? That would be interesting.
 
I saw a show the other day where an American girl got millions for Alienation of Affections. I don't believe that law is in Canada anymore.
 
For what it's worth (on the question of whether you can get your ex out of your will before you're formally divorced) - I updated my will before the divorce was done and had no trouble removing my ex as heir and replacing him with my daughter - even though we were still legally married. I was also able to name a friend to be the executor of the will and the trustee for my daughter if I died before she was of age, so my ex would not be in the position of administering my estate for his (our) child. I didn't need any separation agreement or proof of anything to make these changes. Same thing with removing him as a beneficiary on a couple of insurance policies.

When I tried to remove him as a beneficiary on my insurance policy through work, however, then I needed to produce a copy of the divorce order.

Thanks SOS. I had questions about this matter and will be discussing it with my lawyer today.
 
For what it's worth (on the question of whether you can get your ex out of your will before you're formally divorced) - I updated my will before the divorce was done and had no trouble removing my ex as heir and replacing him with my daughter - even though we were still legally married. I was also able to name a friend to be the executor of the will and the trustee for my daughter if I died before she was of age, so my ex would not be in the position of administering my estate for his (our) child. I didn't need any separation agreement or proof of anything to make these changes. Same thing with removing him as a beneficiary on a couple of insurance policies.

When I tried to remove him as a beneficiary on my insurance policy through work, however, then I needed to produce a copy of the divorce order.

Thanks stripes. That's good to know.
 
For what it's worth (on the question of whether you can get your ex out of your will before you're formally divorced) - I updated my will before the divorce was done and had no trouble removing my ex as heir and replacing him with my daughter - even though we were still legally married. I was also able to name a friend to be the executor of the will and the trustee for my daughter if I died before she was of age, so my ex would not be in the position of administering my estate for his (our) child. I didn't need any separation agreement or proof of anything to make these changes. Same thing with removing him as a beneficiary on a couple of insurance policies.

When I tried to remove him as a beneficiary on my insurance policy through work, however, then I needed to produce a copy of the divorce order.
If you have a will then yes you can do that. Not all people have a will though. I dont (i know, i know) and that clause in their separation agreement protects them. Why you would need a copy of the divorce order to remove him as beneficiary from your work policy? I did it without a problem, just filled in the form and sent it in then they sent me back a letter stating it had been changed.
 
If you have a will then yes you can do that. Not all people have a will though. I dont (i know, i know) and that clause in their separation agreement protects them.

I was told that I would have to change my will a second time after divorce if I changed it after separation. I don't know if I was misled, but people may not want to have the expense of doing it twice. But it leads me to believe that there must be something about having a legal spouse that gives them some rights to your estate, if you are between separation and divorce.

Why you would need a copy of the divorce order to remove him as beneficiary from your work policy? I did it without a problem, just filled in the form and sent it in then they sent me back a letter stating it had been changed.

It may vary by company. Changing my beneficiary on all my policies was the first thing I did after my separation, and my employer didn't ask for any documentation.
 
I agree that it is a vestige of the old Divorce Act. It does, however, have weight before the court; it allows you to divorce your spouse. Not all remedies need to be monetary in nature.

Don't disagree but, in the context of this forum, many people are seeking the evidence to find fault. Be it for monetary gain (paying less SS/CS, unequal division of assets) or custody and access gain (more time with the children and "sole custody") we have to be mindful in my opinion.

Claims for divorce made for cause other than separation tend to be driven by emotion or inexperience.

Emotion by the litigant and bad conduct (inexperience / neglegence) often by the solicitor of record for the emotional litigant.

"When Helping Hurts" by William Eddy

When Helping Hurts - How Professionals Become Negative Advocates - Or Not - High Conflict Institute

However, leading evidence of them is occasionally a tactic to attempt to add emotional charge to the separation. Opportunities to slag the personality of the other party's primary witness are viewed by some as advantageous.

To some, such as the Honourable Mr. Justice Pazaratz, Honourable Mr. Justice Czutrin, Honourable Madame Justice Mossip, etc... it is seen as a what it truly is... a "truism" and a negative tactic that weighs heavy against the party doing it quite often. Today, in 2013, I wouldn't recommend anyone engage in this "tactic"... It is transparent in most of the major family law districts these days.

The question is academic, and would be interesting to see litigated in a civil setting. Without any research or background in torts, I submit that it meets the de minimus test of civil assault, however damages would also be minimal. Similar to the sneezing case.

The emotional impact to the litigant engaging in an academic exersize would far out weigh any gain they would get from a tort. Clearly the other part would "vigorously defend" themselves as allowed by the laws and Law Society of Upper Canada. It would be more of a battle of wills between the parties. For all the emotional investment it would not be worth any return that you could possibly get.

A better and more fruitful approach would be to move on with one's life, minimize contact with the other party and seek happiness and not lawsuits. I have never met a single person whom was involved in any form of civil litigation that was "happy" as a result - even if the outcome was favorable to them significantly.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
So, I'm on the same boat as concerned dad in that my husband committed adultery, is expecting a child with another woman and has acknowledged his actions.

I now want to file for divorce on adultery grounds, and wanting to ask how much detail to include in the form and whether it should go smoothly given my husband's willingness to admit to it, I found that the same question had been posted by concerned dad. However, other than multiples attempts to try to discourage him from filing on those grounds, I found no answer to his question.

So, let me preface my question saying that:
I hear when people say it is better to wait a year and file an uncontested divorce
I hear when people say filing on adultery grounds will lead to a lengthy and expensive divorce

Yet, let me ask the questions and plead for direct answers:
1-Has anyone filed for divorce on adultery grounds and have their spouse cooperation by admitting to it? what was the outcome?
2-How much detail did you include in the form?

Thank you in advance for sharing your experience with me.

Impatient
 
I filed divorce based on adultery. I was married for 30 years and divorce was granted 9 months later. My ex agreed to swear to adultery. Divorce became final 30 days after it was presented to the judge. Very simple matter if the adulterer agrees to it. Judge merely asked my husband if he agreed and my husband stood up and said "I do" (better "I do" than the one when we got married LOL).


Things that can hold granting of divorce up can be issues relating to child custody and complicated equalization matters.
 
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Thanks so much for your straight answer, Arabian. A follow up question: do you necessarily have to go before the judge? does this happen also for uncontested divorces? For some reason, I assumed all would be paper-based if no conflict arose. Is that incorrect?
 
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