Divorce for Adultery

concerneddad123

New member
My soon to be ex asked for the separation two months ago, we put the date as July 1st and have an agreement about to be signed.

I would like to have the divorce happen as quickly as possible as I do not want to have to wait a year to apply.

She committed adultery with at least 5 different people over the course of the last 16 months or so. I am using that as grounds for the divorce.

On the form it asks for details. I want to present the idea to her that I am perfectly willing to be light on details if she won't fight anything and allow it to go through.

How few details are too few. Is it ok just to say she's admitted to adultery no less than 5 times over the past 16 months? Do I need to go into all the detail to get it approved by the court?

I have copies of emails, her admissions, dates of these conversations and so on. It would be in her best interests to keep details light, but will the court approve it like that?

If she's going to fight, I'll need to add in the details and names, certainly not a good thing for her considering that those people will be served.

Anyone have any concerns with this plan?
 
This is a recipe for disaster. If your separation is this recent (July 1), you may well be in shock and not thinking about the implications of using adultery as grounds. This will become public record. Do you want your children reading these details about their mother some day? Do you want an extended legal fight over sordid details (especially if you're digging through her emails) which will cost you thousands and destroy any chance you might have at a working relationship with your children's other parent, not to mention making you look vindictive and nasty?

I can understand your hurt and perhaps shock and anger at a cheating spouse - many of us on this board have been there. But a fast divorce is not necessarily the best divorce. Use the year of separation to get everything perfectly in order, then on July 1 2014, hit the courthouse with your documents. Nobody "needs" an ultra-rapid divorce unless they are planning to get married again right away (also a bad idea, BTW).

Take the high road - you won't regret it. Your stbx has already set herself up for a whole pile of unpleasant consequences if she was cheating with five different people in less than a year and a half.
 
I don't think anybody bothers for divorce for anything other than 1yr of seperation anymore it costs too much to prove someone is a *****.
 
put your children first. easiest way to do so is just to imagine how you would feel if you learned that your mother has committed adultery.

if there are no children still better not to put it and wait one year, unless you have some one lined up to get married with right away. (even thats not a good idea, you need time to get over the first relationship)
 
Whether it is a fast divorce or waiting the year, most likely the adultery, cruelty, abuses, and/or bad things in general will go into the materials. Either way this will become public record that the children can access when they're older.

Even with DV charges, recordings, letters, etc., getting an immediate divorce is a tough battle and usually not recommended.
 
This is a recipe for disaster.
Absolutely.

The only reason you could need a divorce in less than a year is if you want to be remarried. You should not remarry within a year of separation. Ergo, you don't need the divorce.
 
I guess the issue I'm grappling with is that for religious reasons and the process involved there, the one year wait for divorce (then how long until it's processed?) plus the year long wait for that process means I'm looking into 2016!! before I can move forward with anything else. If a divorce were granted by the end of 2013, I'd be free and clear by the end of 2014.

Now I'll pose my question in a different way.

Can I put on the form just one case (i.e. she committed adultery and has admitted to such) and get away with that?

Essentially the less gore on the form the better. If she agrees not to contest that, would that work?

I am still trying to decide whether it is worth it based on the advice from here, but in many ways I do not want to be dealing with this into 2016. I need to move on, and for me this is part of the process.

This form should be the least of her worries. When you poop where you eat, and leave behind and enraged wife of a guy you were sleeping with, you have a lot more to worry about than the public record, especially in a very small community where people talk.

The enraged wife has already once yelled at her in front of one of our kids and to suggest she won't say anything else or it won't get to the kids ears eventually is naive I think. Two of my kids are very good friends with their two kids, so eventually something will give when they ask to play and enraged wife lets something out on why they can't play together.

I do appreciate the feedback and it has made me take a step back from the edge. I will need to collect more info and contemplate the situation further.
 
the year long wait for that process means I'm looking into 2016!
The year wait is from separation.

If your application is made, your affidavit for divorce could be submitted 366 days after separation with the rest of Step 2, with an Order returned a month or so later.
 
I guess the issue I'm grappling with is that for religious reasons and the process involved there, the one year wait for divorce (then how long until it's processed?) plus the year long wait for that process means I'm looking into 2016!! before I can move forward with anything else.

Why can't you move forward with that being "married" prevents you from doing? You can find a new place to live, work, and even meet and date other people. Ultimately, being married doesn't stop you from doing anything you want to do other than being married to someone else. But, there are many people in high-conflict divorces that are living in common law with new partners who have been stuck in the multi-year challenge that high conflict divorce brings. The justices care little for your "religious" concerns as the family court is a "civil" (ethically bound) court and not a "moral" court.

Ethically speaking, your partner has every legal right to have as many "affairs" as they want. The family court doesn't govern sexual intercourse between two consenting adults.

If a divorce were granted by the end of 2013, I'd be free and clear by the end of 2014.

Considering you are a "concerned dad" (per your nick name on this site) it is puzzling as to why these questions are related to the elements of being divorced and not the more important issues that needs to be resolved... The custody and access of the children involved in the breakdown of their parent's adult relationship.

The court will prioritize well before a "divorce" is granted the issues of custody and access of the children generally before anything else. So, you may want to re-focus your attention on what is happening to "you" and focus on the only parties to any family law matter that a justice actually cares about... The children involved and their "best interests".

Now I'll pose my question in a different way.

Can I put on the form just one case (i.e. she committed adultery and has admitted to such) and get away with that?

If you like having the other party claim you are "emotionally abusive" and "invading their privacy" sure! But, I wouldn't recommend it. There is an evolving belief that the allegation of an affair is "emotionally abusive" and even bringing that forward as "evidence" demonstrates the person making the claim as "abusive" by doing so. Nothing churns on the evidence of an extramarital affair... Nothing. It is mostly irrelevant evidence that only causes conflict.

Essentially the less gore on the form the better. If she agrees not to contest that, would that work?

Again, the point everyone is trying to make is that there is NO POINT to do this. It will take longer to "fight it out in court" and will take well over a year to even get close to having a court order a divorce if you go that route.

Honestly, you are upset, everyone understands that, but, you need to look at it more objectively... Nothing is "won" on the evidence of an extramarital affair.

I am still trying to decide whether it is worth it based on the advice from here, but in many ways I do not want to be dealing with this into 2016. I need to move on, and for me this is part of the process.

If you don't want to be dealing with this until 2016 then, filing for divorce on the grounds of an extramarital affair is NOT something you should do. It will take at least 3 years to get everything resolved through the slow court process and a justice STILL may make you wait a year for your divorce to clear.

If you want to do this fast, make a reasonable offer to settle, move forward with your life, be happy that you no longer have to worry about the "affairs" and realize that your partner can no longer hurt you through infidelity. That you have chosen to leave the relationship and are not bound by the moral obligations and that a court will NOT morally obligate you to your marriage.

This form should be the least of her worries. When you poop where you eat, and leave behind and enraged wife of a guy you were sleeping with, you have a lot more to worry about than the public record, especially in a very small community where people talk.

I recommend you do not engage in distortion campaigns against the other parent to your children. Your conduct and how you deal with this matter will be front-and-centre evidence of you as a person and more importantly as a parent. If you are in any way shape or form going around and discussing the extramarital affair with others... STOP NOW.

The enraged wife has already once yelled at her in front of one of our kids and to suggest she won't say anything else or it won't get to the kids ears eventually is naive I think. Two of my kids are very good friends with their two kids, so eventually something will give when they ask to play and enraged wife lets something out on why they can't play together.

DO NOT INVOLVE YOURSELF IN SUCH NONSENSE STUFF. Focus on YOU as a parent, not the conduct of others and you will fair much better. If you wrap yourself into gossip (distortion campaigns) it will only work against you - not for you.

I do appreciate the feedback and it has made me take a step back from the edge. I will need to collect more info and contemplate the situation further.

You should be investigating, educating and understanding the elements of custody and access. Not, worrying about extramarital affairs... That is something between two consenting adults and does not harm the children in any way...

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
I need to take serious issue with this:

Ethically speaking, your partner has every legal right to have as many "affairs" as they want. The family court doesn't govern sexual intercourse between two consenting adults.

Ethically, any adult has the obligation to tell someone who believes they are solely committed to them that they do have other sexual partners, especially when they are having unprotected sex. It is a health issue. Random guy says he's clean, but how do I know? He gives something to her and I get it, thinking that she was only having sex with me, that is a major problem to me. If you want to sleep with other people, go for it, but tell me so I can make an informed decision on who I'm sleeping with.

Custody and access is done. Obviously if I could get more, I would, but she's already changed the final draft to move from her 50% number to 40% for her, which is working in my favour. All she's ever cared about is not paying CS. If I get the kids more it's even better. In reality, I'm sure I'll have the mass majority of custody which is great by me. No point fighting this further. The law is stacked against men on this front anyways.

Let me simplify the major question more:

If she consents to this proposal and doesn't fight it, would a simple declaration on the form work?

That's all I need to know. Its clear that it's not worth a fight in court, but how much detail is needed with consent?

I understand that not everyone cares about the religious aspect of marriage, but some of us do. I'm dealing with this now, because everything else has been sorted out (as best as possible). All the "legal" aspects, other than the divorce itself are finalized.

And for the record I certainly haven't said anything to anyone about any affairs other than a small number of my close friends and private counselors. I did talk to enraged wife when it all broke last year and asked her not to do or say anything in front of the kids. In fact I still have those emails stating that and had a long follow up phone call with her pleading for her not to bring it up in front of the kids. She initially thought that was a good idea, but obviously has since changed her mind.

What I'm saying through this is that the odds are the kids find out well before they're of age to look anything up anyways. I cannot control enraged wife and our kids are young enough that they'll be many, many more school functions, parties, etc where there will be contact and I'm pretty sure she hasn't finished her public piece yet (considering the last public yelling happened 10 months after it was all over and they're still together).
 
I have to say, I disagree with Tayken.

The courts here are not "ethical" they are legal as defined by parliament and practical.

Adultery is unethical

Insofar as adultery is a direct cause to family breakup it DOES have an impact on the children.....

Tayken, you believe in the system too much. The system is human, it is fallible, it is imperfect and it can easily be wrong.
 
Ethically, any adult has the obligation to tell someone who believes they are solely committed to them that they do have other sexual partners, especially when they are having unprotected sex. It is a health issue. Random guy says he's clean, but how do I know? He gives something to her and I get it, thinking that she was only having sex with me, that is a major problem to me. If you want to sleep with other people, go for it, but tell me so I can make an informed decision on who I'm sleeping with.

It is your problem. Not the problem with the courts. Canadian society isn't full of sexually transmitted infections (STI) as you are selling. Have you gone to your family practitioner and been tested yet? If not, why not? If you tested clean then your concern is irrelevant and baseless and nothing more than emotional reasoning. Also, you now know the state of "affairs" with the other party and well, stop having sex with them then.

If any adult is "ethically" obligated to tell the other party that they are having sex with someone else... Please sight the laws, rules and regulations that bind this person to this "ethical" obligation? I am talking to legal ethics and not society's moral objections.

Custody and access is done.

Then file your separation agreement with the courts and file for divorce. This is assuming that equalization is completed of course.

Obviously if I could get more, I would, but she's already changed the final draft to move from her 50% number to 40% for her, which is working in my favour. All she's ever cared about is not paying CS. If I get the kids more it's even better. In reality, I'm sure I'll have the mass majority of custody which is great by me.

Do you understand what "custody" is? I think you have yourself mixed up with what is "access".

No point fighting this further. The law is stacked against men on this front anyways.

It absolutly is NOT stacked against men.

If she consents to this proposal and doesn't fight it, would a simple declaration on the form work?

Well, if you want to possibly get a bad reaction from the other parent, you could request they consent to the form. This would be the first time I have heard of someone doing this myself... But, I have only reviewed about 1,300 family law files in the Ontario courts myself...

That's all I need to know. Its clear that it's not worth a fight in court, but how much detail is needed with consent?

I would be surprised if someone consented to agree to the admission of an extramarital affair. But, stranger things have happened in family law...

I understand that not everyone cares about the religious aspect of marriage, but some of us do.

Then there are those who kindly ask that you keep your religion out of our system of government and laws. Feel free to seek a religious annulment if it so important to you.

I'm dealing with this now, because everything else has been sorted out (as best as possible). All the "legal" aspects, other than the divorce itself are finalized.

File for divorce then. Wait the year. It goes quickly.

And for the record I certainly haven't said anything to anyone about any affairs other than a small number of my close friends and private counselors. I did talk to enraged wife when it all broke last year and asked her not to do or say anything in front of the kids. In fact I still have those emails stating that and had a long follow up phone call with her pleading for her not to bring it up in front of the kids. She initially thought that was a good idea, but obviously has since changed her mind.

What I'm saying through this is that the odds are the kids find out well before they're of age to look anything up anyways. I cannot control enraged wife and our kids are young enough that they'll be many, many more school functions, parties, etc where there will be contact and I'm pretty sure she hasn't finished her public piece yet (considering the last public yelling happened 10 months after it was all over and they're still together).

Have you ever considered why "enraged wife" is "enraged"? Have you ever considered what role you had to play in all this or are you perfect and the other parent is all bad in this matter?

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
I have to say, I disagree with Tayken.

The courts here are not "ethical" they are legal as defined by parliament and practical.

In general, ethics are the rules of right and wrong behavior. The Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary defines ethics as "the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group" (Merriam-Webster, Inc. http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary/ethic, 2001).

So, lets expand this to the laws the principles of conduct which govern our society. (Legal Ethics) Laws are based on the greater need of society and not your moral beliefs. I am grateful that they are not personally.

Adultery is unethical

In the context of the law... It is not.

Insofar as adultery is a direct cause to family breakup it DOES have an impact on the children.....

How so? What specific elements of Rule 24 of the Children's Law Reform Act defines this? The only impact on children are parents who are unable to put their past behind them and put their children's "best interests" first.

Tayken, you believe in the system too much. The system is human, it is fallible, it is imperfect and it can easily be wrong.

I really can't comment on this in response. You are entitled to your weak opinion of me if you would like and my "beliefs" about the "system". At 109 posts, some of which are loaded with incredibly wrong information and advice which I have noted, I am unable to form an opinion due to your lack of tangible contributions to this site... Other than that they are often littered with incorrect information. Hopefully in time you will actually contribute something meaningful to this forum other than criticism and incorrect advice. Only time will tell...

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Laws are based on the greater need of society and not your moral beliefs

Laws are based on parliament (elected officials) and limited by the charter of rights....

Furthermore, the "Greater good" is not necessarily a basis for an ethical decision. If I told you that by killing one innocent person we could save one hundred, would that be ethical? It might be what we ought to do but doesn't mean it is ethical.
 
How so? What specific elements of Rule 24 of the Children's Law Reform Act defines this? The only impact on children are parents who are unable to put their past behind them and put their children's "best interests" first.

So you are saying because some law says adultery has no impact on the best interests of the children (I'm talking in a holistic/global perspective) then means it is true?

The logic:
Adultery often leads to Divorce
Divorce OFTEN leads to negative impact on children
Negative Impact on a child is not in their best interest.

In the eyes of the LAW we ignore it, but in reality adultery causes problems. Reasonable people have to accept the law doesn't care but it doesn't mean as members of society we consider adultery "ok"
 
I understand all the mudslinging complications that can ensue with requesting a divorce on the grounds of adultery, and I agree that custody, access, equalization, support, etc are critical elements of separation that should be complete before the divorce is granted. However, if the agreement is done speedily, why not file for divorce ASAP if the option is there? It offers some emotional closure, especially for the religious, and enables the parties to redo their wills sooner, etc.

It would be awful to be separated, and die before the divorce is granted, and have your ex make a grab for your estate as they are technically still your legal spouse.

I know if the parties go to court it all become public record, but even if you do it all amicably, can just anybody access your filed agreement and divorce order?
 
Laws are based on parliament (elected officials) and limited by the charter of rights....

I think you answered your own questions as to how and why laws are established for the "greater good" by elected officials through a democratic process. Laws are created through the democratic process by our elected officials. You don't like the laws, then start a political party and get voted into government and then change the laws.

Furthermore, the "Greater good" is not necessarily a basis for an ethical decision. If I told you that by killing one innocent person we could save one hundred, would that be ethical? It might be what we ought to do but doesn't mean it is ethical.

Government officials often have to make these kinds of very hard decisions. Let we not forget the difficult decisions government makes every day about those in the military every day. They do analyze such situations every day by the way. Our system of health care also has to make these kinds of decisions every day too.

Not sure how you can relate the concept of life and death to family law. They are just worlds apart and the fact you have taken the argument is revealing to say the least.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
So you are saying because some law says adultery has no impact on the best interests of the children (I'm talking in a holistic/global perspective) then means it is true?

The logic:
Adultery often leads to Divorce
Divorce OFTEN leads to negative impact on children
Negative Impact on a child is not in their best interest.

In the eyes of the LAW we ignore it, but in reality adultery causes problems. Reasonable people have to accept the law doesn't care but it doesn't mean as members of society we consider adultery "ok"

Your logic fails on the very fact that it is not the law that is the problem but, the people who enter into that system. It only takes one highly conflicted (emotionally disturbed) litigant to create the true conflict that leads to a situation whereby a justice has to make an order for sole custody and majority access due to the parental conflict. Litigants for the most part are the problem which people often try to blame "the system" for. Most litigants lack the self awareness to see how much emotional reasoning they are doing... They fail to see proper theraputic intervention to manage these emotions, act out in their affidavits, make wild allegations and go to court to "win". The other parent gets upsets, defends themselves and attacks the other person in the process. In the mix of this nonsense over "litigating" over an extramarital affair the best interests of the children are thrown out the window and one (or both) parents engage their children in the debate or make inappropriate comments about the other parent. This is where the abuse starts.

We then have those disgruntled parents that then so upset that they come to message forums seeking to debate with others over such nonsense... Showing not only are they possibly conflicted with the other parent but, anyone who disagree's with their position. The same histrionics that they exhibit probably on their matrimonial file and legal proceedings becomes evident in a larger public context quiet often.

The triggering point of the parent's conflict may have been an extramarital affair but, it is because one (or both) of the parents can't put their children first and deal with an adult situation for which their children are not directly involved is the real problem... Not the system of law.

The family law rules, CLRA and other Acts of government often rely upon people being reasonable. What this OP is requesting is unreasonable and when you demonstrate yourself as unreasonable to the courts... They award costs against you... That is why costs are awarded in legal proceedings... To demonstrate to the unreasonable people that the court expects people to be reasonable for our laws to work.

Reasonable people do accept that nothing in family law churns on the evidence of an extramarital affair and put their children's "best interests" first rather than "fighting it out in court", creating unnecessary conflict over irrelevant evidence... Just so they themselves can vindicate / punish the other parent for engaging in a private act with another adult...

What leads to adultery then? Lots of theories. None of them relevant and none of them are "abusive" to children.

Do you want taxpayers to have to front 15+ day trials so people can "fight it out in court" so they can feel better about themselves? We have another system in our country that is ready and willing to help these people that is more effective in helping these people... It is called the health care system...

In conclusions this is how I view the situation for a justice hearing a matter on "adultery" in the context of the CLRA:

When someone brings an extramarital affair as "evidence" a justice often has to contemplate Rule 24.(2).(a) on the balance of probabilities.

(2) The court shall consider all the child’s needs and circumstances, including,

(a) the love, affection and emotional ties between the child and,

(i) each person entitled to or claiming custody of or access to the child,
(ii) other members of the child’s family who reside with the child, and
(iii) persons involved in the child’s care and upbringing;​

How a litigant chooses to litigate a matter, raise the allegations of an extramarital affair, communicates this to the court, etc... in my personal opinion may not be demonstrating to the court their love and affection for their children but, their hatred, anger and negative emotions about the other parent. A justice has to seriously consider their conduct with careful consideration to Rule 24 and if the conduct of this "parent", who is unable to demonstrate emotional closure and if their inability to move forward in their life poses a risk to the children's "best interests".

So, my position is that why even bother it up and add this complexity to any proceeding before the family courts? Why even put yourself in a position where a justice has to contemplate this element of the CLRA on the balance of probabilities? What do the children gain by presenting this evidence?

In my opinion... Nothing...

Feel free to disagree...

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
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