Difficulty Sharing Expenses in Shared Acess

K

kingstonmomof2

New member
I was wondering if any other parents have or have had issues with getting other parents portion of kids expenses paid to you.

I am currently having my lawyer update a current agreement and was HOPING there might be some special wording or terms used to help in this area.

Can we get creative with that part of the agreement when there is a clear track record of one parent consistently not paying on time or at all?

Thanks!!
 
If you get the wording around % of the expense, you can then file approved expenses (ie other parent agrees in writing) with FRO and then they get the money for you. (Im assuming from your handle youre in Ontario).
 
I guess I will definitely file with FRO.

Thanks! Can a list of pre approved items be listed in agreement I wonder? To avoid one parent from not "approving" an expense? I am talking reasonable expenses like $150/summer soccer that a child has played for 7 years previous or summer clothes/back to school clothes (uniforms for one so far) I just feel I need to be as wordy as possible or I'm in trouble as I have been in for the past several years.

Thanks again!
 
Kids grow out of activities. You cant anticipate what they may be interested in. Best to keep it general and really work together on agreeing.
 
I wish it were that simple ;) That doesn't work unfortunately :( My daughter already grew out of that. Son has a year of that left as he is 12. It was really just an example :)

Unfortunately FRO will be the only way to go.
Thanks Rockscan!
 
Difficulty Sharing Expenses in Shared Acess

Then this is where the problem is. Youll need specific language like "the parties agree to extra curricular expenses totaling no more than $XXXX for the year to be split proportionate to income" or even an additional $100-200 a month on child support for these activities because he will say no and normally you have to be in agreement on them to recover it. If your agreement says he has to agree and you dont get it in writing, he can dispute the charge with FRO.

Someone more senior or knowledgeable about having a set amount per year (or tacked onto CS) can weigh in though. FRO is great for recovering the money but they can only recover what is legally dictated. And if your ex is a disagreeable person, you'll be banging your head against the wall.

The only drawback is if you agree to a max $2000 or even $100 a month ($1200) youre recovering on his portion of that amount if you end up with a higher cost activity. But something is better than nothing right?
 
I end up paying for everything....which sucks but my ex is like that.

However, I would recommend googling Canlii.org and searching. There are TONS of examples you can use from previous court orders on there.
 
Hi there. In my agreement, we looked at our expense history for our kids' activities, figured out what my ex's proportionate amount of that monthly expense total was, and put that exact dollar amount into the agreement. Yes, the activities will go up in cost, his annual income could increase thereby changing the proportionate amount, but at least it's a guaranteed amount received, it limits the need to discuss/negotiate, and it's easily enforceable if the ex doesn't pay, since it's a specific dollar amount.
 
kingstonmomof2 said:
I guess I will definitely file with FRO.

Thanks! Can a list of pre approved items be listed in agreement I wonder? To avoid one parent from not "approving" an expense? I am talking reasonable expenses like $150/summer soccer that a child has played for 7 years previous or summer clothes/back to school clothes (uniforms for one so far) I just feel I need to be as wordy as possible or I'm in trouble as I have been in for the past several years.

Thanks again!
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$150 for soccer would not be s7 unless you both are in a lower income bracket. A 1 time fee of $150 equates to $12.50 a month annually, which would be c/s.

Edit - Just read the rest of the post. Clothes are also covered under c/s. School uniforms may be covered under c/s, again, income of the parents would determine that. If income is on the lower scale (lower than $40k), then uniforms would likely be s7. If on the higher end of the scale ($75K+), likely not s7. In between is a grey area where it becomes dependent on which judge you get and what day of the week it is, and what the judge ate for breakfast and how well the judge slept last night.

I know if my ex asked for money for uniforms for my D9 (who wears a uniform) I would say that it is covered under the $700+ a month I provide in c/s for one child. My ex hasn't asked for monies for uniforms, likely because she knows with our combined incomes the cost isn't "extraordinary" as required in the legislation.
 
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HammerDad said:
$150 for soccer would not be s7 unless you both are in a lower income bracket. A 1 time fee of $150 equates to $12.50 a month annually, which would be c/s.

Edit - Just read the rest of the post. Clothes are also covered under c/s. School uniforms may be covered under c/s, again, income of the parents would determine that. If income is on the lower scale (lower than $40k), then uniforms would likely be s7. If on the higher end of the scale ($75K+), likely not s7. In between is a grey area where it becomes dependent on which judge you get and what day of the week it is, and what the judge ate for breakfast and how well the judge slept last night.

I know if my ex asked for money for uniforms for my D9 (who wears a uniform) I would say that it is covered under the $700+ a month I provide in c/s for one child. My ex hasn't asked for monies for uniforms, likely because she knows with our combined incomes the cost isn't "extraordinary" as required in the legislation.
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Hammer Dad I totally see where you are coming from. My situation is a little different. One child week on/off and the other does EOW with her dad since Dec/13.
Support at $70 under guidelines was finally started in Sept/14 but only lasted 4 months. I have received about $250 this year.

Our incomes are fairly modest (low 40's) so I feel all activities for our son should be shared and extracurricular activities for daughter as well should be shared.

This is why I am looking for a very wordy agreement. Getting him to help out is a challenge.
 
I understand you feel that way, but it appears your ex doesn't feel that way. And unfortunately feelings have little to do with the law.

You may try to get your ex to agree. But if you aren't able to and really want to and really want to pursue this, it could cost you more in legal fees than you would get back for the expenses you incur.
 
HammerDad said:
I understand you feel that way, but it appears your ex doesn't feel that way. And unfortunately feelings have little to do with the law.

You may try to get your ex to agree. But if you aren't able to and really want to and really want to pursue this, it could cost you more in legal fees than you would get back for the expenses you incur.
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Definitely. Is your ex involved with the kids? Would he take an active role in activities with the kids? Would he want to do his own stuff? Perhaps if you encourage him to enroll them in activities he enjoys, they might get some benefits from that. If hes the type of ex who says forget it Im not paying anything or spending time with my kids then you need to ask yourself if its worth fighting over something a judge may not agree with you on. Yes sports and other activities build confidence and create an active lifestyle but intact families have to sacrifice to pay living expenses. Is there an opportunity for some of these activities to be gifts from family members? Could it be a yearly budget item (ie you can play one sport each year)? Is there some sort of subsidy or support for it minus the portion from dad?

Focus your efforts on getting him to agree to a portion of education, medical, special needs. If its going to cost you more to get "fun stuff" paid for is it really worth your time and money? Your kids will survive without some stuff. They wont survive without health and education. Fight the battles you know you can win.
 
HammerDad said:
I understand you feel that way, but it appears your ex doesn't feel that way. And unfortunately feelings have little to do with the law.

You may try to get your ex to agree. But if you aren't able to and really want to and really want to pursue this, it could cost you more in legal fees than you would get back for the expenses you incur.
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Let me reword this. We earn within $1500.00 of one another per year. There IS no support paid to one another for our son so there are zero expenses that "cs covers". We simply split his activities which IS in our current and very old and informal agreement. So I not only FEEL he should pay for half of an activity he has been involved in for 8 years, I EXPECT him to pay for half. He FULLY agrees to the activity and will pay me next week.....oh sorry, not this week, NEXT week.....and so on and so on.

Since there is a TON of items that weren't put into our home made agreement 8 years ago, this is my time to make sure that was IS in there is put in properly. I'm not asking for anything that isn't written in (as far as I know) the Family Law Rules so I am spending the money right now anyways.
 
Does your ex sign the kid up for anything on his time and pay fees that he doesn't ask you for reimbursement for? Unless he does this, I agree that it is perfectly reasonable to expect him to cover half of fees for activities you pay for. You each provide clothing, food, shelter etc, and have no offset CS, so you should both share the cost of other expenses that may arise, instead of having them fall onto only one of you.

As for wording, I'm not sure what FRO would require. Maybe if you contact them, they can tell you?
 
rockscan said:
Definitely. Is your ex involved with the kids? Would he take an active role in activities with the kids? Would he want to do his own stuff? Perhaps if you encourage him to enroll them in activities he enjoys, they might get some benefits from that. If hes the type of ex who says forget it Im not paying anything or spending time with my kids then you need to ask yourself if its worth fighting over something a judge may not agree with you on. Yes sports and other activities build confidence and create an active lifestyle but intact families have to sacrifice to pay living expenses. Is there an opportunity for some of these activities to be gifts from family members? Could it be a yearly budget item (ie you can play one sport each year)? Is there some sort of subsidy or support for it minus the portion from dad?

Focus your efforts on getting him to agree to a portion of education, medical, special needs. If its going to cost you more to get "fun stuff" paid for is it really worth your time and money? Your kids will survive without some stuff. They wont survive without health and education. Fight the battles you know you can win.
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rockscan said:
You guys are 50/50?
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Hi Rockscan.......The kids have medical through my partners plan, and I will be adding education details as well. The kids dads is a very active parent and to be honest, we get along quite well. We have always been very flexible with the access schedule to make adjustments for work schedules, vacactions, and family events etc. The kids do the same activities on both of our times. We don't plan things for only OUR time. We honestly have ZERO issues with anything EXCEPT for $$$.


Rioe said:
Does your ex sign the kid up for anything on his time and pay fees that he doesn't ask you for reimbursement for? Unless he does this, I agree that it is perfectly reasonable to expect him to cover half of fees for activities you pay for. You each provide clothing, food, shelter etc, and have no offset CS, so you should both share the cost of other expenses that may arise, instead of having them fall onto only one of you.

As for wording, I'm not sure what FRO would require. Maybe if you contact them, they can tell you?
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Rioe......From day 1 of separation I have always been the one to register the kids for soccer, hockey, skating lessons etc etc. It was always me who looked after that when we were together so it just continued that way.
The problem really isn't that my ex won't AGREE to activities it is that he is REALLY REALLY bad at planning and budgeting. I am the one who pays for things up front because I just can't rely on him :( As time goes on, he just owes me more and more and now, as mentioned above, he is WAY behind on support. The amount of support he should be paying is $40/week for our daughter who spends every other weekend with him and he is struggling :(

Hope this helps to explain :)
 
Know that our comments are always aimed at helping not hurting. Sometimes its hard to get the gist of the situation with limited info. Having an order is great but he will still struggle to pay FRO as well. Which may lead to resentment. Thats not me saying its wrong, Im just saying it will add to the struggle and impact your continued good working relationship. If there was a way to get him to meet you halfway by maybe paying for an expense registration by credit card when it came up do you think he would take it? That could be an option as well?
He may not want to incur the credit card charges but he will end up paying interest to FRO anyway. Also maybe a way to look at the next years costs in December and plan?

I struggle with these cases. My partner is fastidious about budgeting and paying his bills. He stresses about his ex not being financially responsible and getting in trouble. Some days reading these posts I wish he was divorced from you guys because then there wouldnt be all this stress!
 
rockscan said:
Know that our comments are always aimed at helping not hurting. Sometimes its hard to get the gist of the situation with limited info. Having an order is great but he will still struggle to pay FRO as well. Which may lead to resentment. Thats not me saying its wrong, Im just saying it will add to the struggle and impact your continued good working relationship. If there was a way to get him to meet you halfway by maybe paying for an expense registration by credit card when it came up do you think he would take it? That could be an option as well?
He may not want to incur the credit card charges but he will end up paying interest to FRO anyway. Also maybe a way to look at the next years costs in December and plan?

I struggle with these cases. My partner is fastidious about budgeting and paying his bills. He stresses about his ex not being financially responsible and getting in trouble. Some days reading these posts I wish he was divorced from you guys because then there wouldnt be all this stress!
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Haha! I realize that people are trying to help and I DO find it helpful. It IS very frustrating and while I DO want to keep the peace (which is why I have put up with this for 7 years) it's pretty unjust and adds up :(
 
Have you asked your ex to do the registration for the activities himself (and pay the fees), as opposed to reimbursing you? I had this issue with my ex not reimbursing me for Kid's one activity, and being out hundreds of dollars until he got around to paying. I finally said "I'd like you to register her for the winter session". He agreed, and paid the up-front cost when he registered. I had to stop enabling his spaciness and disorganization.

Worst case: your ex won't get around to registering and the kids will miss out for a session. Hopefully, the guilt will make him a bit more responsible in the future.
 
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