Determining income for possible Spousal Support

W

Working Woman

New member
How do we define income for the purposes of determining possible SS calculations? Both our incomes have varied over recent years.

This year mine is much higher and will continue at that rate but before date of separation was less. So must I use current income going forward or can I use average of last 3 years? Do I include interest in my RRSP as part of the income?

For H, do we use the average of his income earned and investment income over last 3 years, or this year which has 0 earned income and only investment income? Does he include interest income from his substantial RRSP? As he is now intentionally unemployed (retired), is it unreasonable for me to expect him to use his retirement assets to support himself which, after he buys his new home, will be around 900K?
 
Do I include interest in my RRSP as part of the income?
Does he include interest income from his substantial RRSP?
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Interest on RRSP's are not considered income or taxable until they are withdrawn.
 
Traditionally, one uses their most recent pay stub if they work at a predictable salary, or the line 150 from the previous tax return if their week to week income isn't steady or they have multiple jobs, or the average of the last three year's line 150s if their income fluctuates from year to year.

As you describe it, you would use your most recent pay stub, as your income is steady and predictable. Your ex using the average of his last three year's tax returns might be fairest from his end of things, unless you have reason to believe he might be fudging the numbers?

RRSPs are not included unless you are drawing from it.

As I understand your situation, you had a long time marriage during which he was the main breadwinner, though you were also employed. Not long ago, he inherited some money, which led him to quit his stressful job. Around the same time, you reached your full earning potential. So now you come to separation, and your respective incomes are quite different from how they were during the majority of your married lives.

The main issue of your separation appears to be if he is entitled to SS from you. Some questions may have relevance to determining this, or at least, how you might fare trying to argue against it.

Was there always a plan that he would retire early when you reached your full earning capacity? As in, was there a deal that he worked hard then to support you and you would work hard later to support him?

Was the idea of him retiring early due to his inheritance a mutual decision? As in, did you agree that living off his inheritance and your income was deserved after years of his stressful job?

Did he work hard during the marriage in support of your career advancement, or make career sacrifices that reduced his earning potential to support your career advancement? As in, is your current earning ability due in part to his past efforts?

If any of those are the case, I'm sure you can see how it isn't fair that he worked hard to invest in you for years, and bam, you separate, and he can't see the return on that investment.

However, if none of those scenarios really apply to your situation, I would argue that he is capable of returning to making his former income, that you are not responsible for his choice to retire early and live off his inheritances, and he is not entitled to have you subsidize that choice via spousal support.

If you have to do some negotiating, offer a time-limited amount of SS, maybe a couple of years, enough to help him get his skills caught up again and job hunt. Even if you think he doesn't deserve it, it might still be cheaper than legal fees and court.
 
H was main bread winner for about first 5 of 25 years. It was stressful for him but not long hours. Then we were about even for 15 years. Last 5 years I have been the main breadwinner due to his choice to switch careers and then work less then not at all for last 2.5 years. The career switch turned out to be more stressful for him than original career but that is another story and probably not relevant to the issue.

I was ok with and supported his career change given that combination of partime work income and investment income started out as being close enough to my full time income. But that declined over time as he worked less and less.

There were no "sacrifices" made by him to support my career or raise our daughter:(. I took the time off, stayed home when she was sick took her to appointments etc arranged daycamp, daycare, made the drama costumes. Further I studied part time in evenings and vacations to write licensing exams and obtain professional designations.

I am actually ok with the idea of short term transition SS to top up while he finds part time work to supplement his income, but read in SSAG that one of the bases for SS entitlement is a prexisting contractual agreement. I am worried about the give an inch they will take a mile factor. That has kind of been a life long pattern with him.
 
Rioe said:
If you have to do some negotiating, offer a time-limited amount of SS, maybe a couple of years, enough to help him get his skills caught up again and job hunt. Even if you think he doesn't deserve it, it might still be cheaper than legal fees and court.
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Just be careful about this. By offering to pay limited spousal support, you may be acknowledging entitlement. It is not certain that there is any entitlement.

If any offer like this is made, you should be sure to state that it is without prejudice. I understand if you are limiting costs, but this type of offer might be best made through a lawyer.

Instead of making such an offer, I would first send a formal, businesslike letter stating that you do not understand the expectation for support and require a detailed explanation for the basis of this claim. Put the onus on him to show why there should be support. The "fact" that you earn more then he is insufficient.

If they cannot offer clear reasons supported by law, this will shape your response.
 
I wouldn't offer anything. If he expects SS, he should tell you how exactly much he thinks he should get and why. Then based on his request and his reasoning, you can decide whether to make a counter-offer or whether to decline his request. Don't be the first one to put an offer on the table or produce numbers, or it looks as though you're tacitly acknowledging that there may be grounds for SS, which it really doesn't sound like there are.
 
I understand and agree it is good advice to ask for and explanation as to entitlement. Has anyone been successful at not having to provide SS when there is a significant disparity in income? Is there any case law where entitlement was denied?
 
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