Zhoozhelitsa
New member
What abuse? You guys have been entertaining me all day. It's fun to watch people getting provoked at a drop of a hat. So keep it coming!
Defacto custody and relocation
- Thread starter Zhoozhelitsa
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blinkandimgone
Moderator
Clearly a shining example of why the childrens' fathers choose to be uninvolved than try to fight the battle that co-parenting must be with you. You thrive on creating drama and provoking people, not a particularly responsible or child-centric approach.
Gary M
New member
The same "abuse" that made you stamp your li'l feet and shake your li'l fists and threaten to leave the forum.
My use of the word was tongue in cheek, meant to imply that you were getting your panties in a bunch over nothing.
Did you not claim to be educated? One would assume that a Doctoral candidate would be quick enough to pick up on not-so-thinly veiled irony. Then again, your command of the English language (e.g. "getting provoked") leads me to question your claim to post-grad studies.
Have a wonderful day; I am.
Cheers!
Gary
Zhoozhelitsa
New member
Did I threaten? No, I thought I would go 'cause dinner was ready but you guys just wouldn't leave it alone so I came back.
Well, since English isn't my first language (my third, actually) I can forgive myself little omissions every now and then. No biggie. In forum fights, language is usually what's being brought up when there's nothing else to say so that's expected. Good education and grammar/spelling don't necessarily correlate, especially if this isn't your first, or even second, language.
If well-educated means having a Masters or a phD to you, so be it. I never claimed post-grad studies. It seem ridiculous to go to school for all these years just so that you have a little more of an advantage over Bachelor grads. So no.
Zhoozhelitsa
New member
P.S. Blink: She started it! (points to Zhoozawhatever)
Cheers!
Gary
Sure, sure. Hey, at least I didn't call anyone names or made personal derogatory comments, did I? I just brought up a point the majority disagreed with. So instead of letting it go and have me continue suffering through my wrong lowly life, the people went crazy. Why? Do some people just have a need to call idiots whoever doesn't share their point of view or who thinks differently? I'm curious.
Zhoozhelitsa
New member
Well, one gets provoked if one chooses to. It's a choice. I could have chosen to call you an idiot or make assumptions about your personal life, but I didn't because it's not nice and you clearly aren't an idiot. You just don't agree with my views on how things should be, and I don't agree with yours. That's all.
blinkandimgone
Moderator
You did, you ASSumed I must be male. I did not say YOU were an idiot, what I said was people who make sweeping generalizations based on gender are idiots.
You have made it clear what your intentions are, what your ulterior motives are and the value you place on men in their childrens' lives. You have in turn been offered advice, perspective and brutal honesty. It would seem prudent, at some point, to acknowledge that if the overwhelming majority disagrees with you perhaps your logic is flawed and begs an open mind and careful reconsideration.
Zhoozhelitsa
New member
What I said was, "Not sure why you can't see my perspective on things at all. Maybe because it looks like it's a guys place to complain." I didn't say YOU Blinkie, did I? This could have referred to the collective "you" of the thread, the majority. You assumed I pointed a finger at you personally. That wasn't my intention. Why you assumed it and why it made you upset - that I don't know. My assumption with this one was that this board was a place frequented by males who seem upset about certain things, I don't think it's incorrect.
So what you are saying is that we (not you and I personally but everyone involved) had an exchange of opinions. I agree. I have to say that there was more than a 'legal advice' intention when I laid the story out on the table for you to read/comment on. Overall, a fairly generic story with some factual info, a hundred of little and not-so-little triggers, and a lot of room for Forer effect, which is exactly what I was looking for. The personal projections that all of you generated in response to the story, as reflected by your posts, is what I used in order to determine what triggers me personally, and what my own biases are when it comes to the subject. And for Blinkie, I need to say that one of the points that you made previously served as a proverbial puzzle piece, so I'm glad you made it.
I took the advice pertaining to my situation and thanked the person(s) who provided me with it. The rest did not apply so I didn't validate it. Now, there are two ways to go from here. Some said, oh well, I did what I could and dropped it. The others got upset and resorted to derogatory verbal comments. So for people who get overtly abusive in response to invalidation/rejection/disagreement, what is it that you need? Where is this strong desire to get 'validated' by any means is coming from?
dadtotheend
New member
Wrong answer.
I called you an idiot because you assumed that blink must be a man since (s)he didn't fall into step with your womanly views.
Keep being entertained drama queen. It's a good look for you.
dadtotheend
New member
Do you think you're the first pompous SOB to come around here with that tired old I'm the best because because I'm the best because I'm the best because I'm Mom dogma?
That's why.
The majority disagree with you because we all took time to seek counsel and advice and actually consider it beyond our own twisted self-interest. We went above and beyond our own selfish needs and looked to consider the childnen's best interest instead of just rationalizing an outcome that aligns with our own interests.
And we have seen many people like you who have come and gone here in the last few years that are just like you ------> unable to see beyond their own noses. And many of us (women included) are sick and tired of the likes of you.
That's why.
I guess I am jumping in at the end here, but we go...
You may be able to relocate with the kids if:
1. your ex doesn't fight it;
2. you and your ex work out an agreement which provides some alternative parenting time schedule that provides you ex with substantially similar parenting time that he is entitled to now; or
3. you prove to the courts that any such move is in the children's best interests.
My agreement provides that my ex cannot move 100km away from me without my previous consent. If I refuse to agree, she needs to drag me to court. Chances of me agreeing should she want to move are slim unless she compensates me generously with extra parenting time.
Things you have to consider that you probably haven't:
1. depending on location, how is dad supposed to exercise his parenting time with the children?
2. how are you going to facilitate his parenting time?
3. Does your move create an unreasonable burden on your ex to exercise his parenting time? ie would the distance make it impossible for him to see the kids regularly and/or would the cost be such a burden financially that he would not be able to see the children regularly.
4. What are you willing to sacrifice in order to get his consent to move? The amount you would be required to sacrifice would have to be at a minimum equal to his lost time or costs. So, if he can't get EOW weekend any more, he gets all of summer, march break and 1/2 of christmas. If it will costs $$$ in gas or transportation costs to facilitate his parenting time, will you be willing to absorb those costs as you are the reason they exist. Or, alternatively, if the costs are nearly equal to the amount he pays in CS, would you be willing to wave CS to offset any costs associate with his parenting time.
Depending on your arguments, you may be able to move. But you will have to make concessions. A court can and will order that your ex get various things in return like all of summer and that you pay any and all costs relating to his parenting time while you live far away.
Ultimately, you don't have the right to move the children without your ex's permission or a court order. You are not guaranteed to win in court either as you would be temporarily moving to an unfamiliar place. Meaning you would uproot the kids for a 1-2 years to some obscur location without family other then yourself, impede your ex's ability to exercise his parenting time etc. If I were your ex, I would argue that it isn't in the kids best interests to be removed from their familiar surroundings for what is a temporary situation. It would create an unnecessary disruption in their lives with having to change schools/friends multiple times in a short period of time and that the best for them is where they are familiar.
You may be able to relocate with the kids if:
1. your ex doesn't fight it;
2. you and your ex work out an agreement which provides some alternative parenting time schedule that provides you ex with substantially similar parenting time that he is entitled to now; or
3. you prove to the courts that any such move is in the children's best interests.
My agreement provides that my ex cannot move 100km away from me without my previous consent. If I refuse to agree, she needs to drag me to court. Chances of me agreeing should she want to move are slim unless she compensates me generously with extra parenting time.
Things you have to consider that you probably haven't:
1. depending on location, how is dad supposed to exercise his parenting time with the children?
2. how are you going to facilitate his parenting time?
3. Does your move create an unreasonable burden on your ex to exercise his parenting time? ie would the distance make it impossible for him to see the kids regularly and/or would the cost be such a burden financially that he would not be able to see the children regularly.
4. What are you willing to sacrifice in order to get his consent to move? The amount you would be required to sacrifice would have to be at a minimum equal to his lost time or costs. So, if he can't get EOW weekend any more, he gets all of summer, march break and 1/2 of christmas. If it will costs $$$ in gas or transportation costs to facilitate his parenting time, will you be willing to absorb those costs as you are the reason they exist. Or, alternatively, if the costs are nearly equal to the amount he pays in CS, would you be willing to wave CS to offset any costs associate with his parenting time.
Depending on your arguments, you may be able to move. But you will have to make concessions. A court can and will order that your ex get various things in return like all of summer and that you pay any and all costs relating to his parenting time while you live far away.
Ultimately, you don't have the right to move the children without your ex's permission or a court order. You are not guaranteed to win in court either as you would be temporarily moving to an unfamiliar place. Meaning you would uproot the kids for a 1-2 years to some obscur location without family other then yourself, impede your ex's ability to exercise his parenting time etc. If I were your ex, I would argue that it isn't in the kids best interests to be removed from their familiar surroundings for what is a temporary situation. It would create an unnecessary disruption in their lives with having to change schools/friends multiple times in a short period of time and that the best for them is where they are familiar.
Reality check (one that I've had to remind my ex about many times).....
Your ex's didn't give up the kids......they chose not to be with you. As described they are still fixtures in your kids lives and so they didn't give up on them.
Don't confuse them leaving you as them leaving the kids. Apples and oranges.
MommaBear73
New member
All good points HammerDad 
Maybe if you can't get them to keep the internship close to the fathers, offer to drive half way to meet them for visits? That way you get to do your internship and the kids can still see their dads. If it's not too far. Is it anywhere in Canada or Ontario that they may send you?
Maybe if you can't get them to keep the internship close to the fathers, offer to drive half way to meet them for visits? That way you get to do your internship and the kids can still see their dads. If it's not too far. Is it anywhere in Canada or Ontario that they may send you?
Zhoozhelitsa
New member
Point taken. Just to clarify, I was the one to facilitate the separation but that's irrelevant, this is just to show that the abandonment bitterness doesn't apply in my case. But here's what I meant. They chose to give up on them by entrusting them voluntarily into my full care. I guess the better way to word it is that they gave up the responsibility of joint parenting. A person who gives up his or her responsibilities but still expects his or her rights to be upheld, that's what I meant. There, thank you, wording successful.
Zhoozhelitsa
New member
All good points HammerDad
Maybe if you can't get them to keep the internship close to the fathers, offer to drive half way to meet them for visits? That way you get to do your internship and the kids can still see their dads. If it's not too far. Is it anywhere in Canada or Ontario that they may send you?
It's Ontario. I think I can arrange an exemption from the traditional placement process and have them assign me close to the home base. I'll discuss the radius with the dads but it will likely to be within the city limits. It seems reasonable.
Zhoozhelitsa
New member
LOL well that's a lot of hot air but the general impression I'm getting from this as well as the previous posts of yours is that there is something about an argumentative woman which sets off a bunch of triggers for you and sends you into a fit of verbal abuse and misogyny.
What it is and why - that I don't know.
Zhoozhelitsa
New member
Questions:
1. Why did you feel compelled to patronize Blink? Did you think she wasn't capable enough to prove her own point?
2. Why did you choose to 'avenge' one female by making degrading, misogynistic comments about another? Have you heard of the Madonna-Whore dichotomy?
PS - I'm not swearing here, it's a term. I have a feeling that you may be compelled to have a wordplay on the word 'Whore' as a means of self-expression. Nothing wrong with that, so go ahead.
Zhoozhelitsa
New member
I believe this paragraph relates to the internship move, right? I don't want to take them with me for the reasons you just stated - far away, unfamiliar, temporary. Leaving them with the fathers means that they lose their primary residence, their school, their neighborhood, and they will get temporarily separated from each other and from me (who is the primary caregiver). So it's between a rock and a hard place for them. Hence, my option of choice right now is to have a lawyer and a councellor to explain what I have just said in a form of a document, and inquire about an exemption from the lottery.
If this doesn't work, the dads and I may have to agree on a specific clause prohibiting me to move away, so that the status quo could be maintained.
Zhoozhelitsa
New member
This is excellent, just what I needed.
All 3 are possible in this situation, #2 is the most probable. We have been able to peacefully mediate things for years now so I don't see why all of a sudden we'll end up in court.
I'm thinking that - and this is based on my personal circumstances the way I know them - that if I am to move in order to get a job, the fathers will not fight it as long as we all agree on reasonable access. They have been content with me being the primary caregiver so far, so it's unlikely they would want it changed. Let's say I get a job in 3 years that's a 5 hr drive away from our current residence. My offer in this case would be:
1. They don't have to pay CS (CS at that time would be about 800/mo for both dads) so that they could use the money on whatever it is they need.
2. They can have them for the summer, and all major holidays if they like.
3. Since my income will be higher at that time, I can pay for summer activities/babysitter while they are at the dads'.
4. I will have to ask for an accommodation in a case of work-based emergency (unpredictable hours, often on-call). For example, to be flexible with dates (+- 48 hrs) if there is a work-related emergency I have to attend and I cannot physically drop the kids off during that time.
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