Defacto custody and relocation

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Mess said:
The things we are bringing up are the things that the children's father's lawyers will bring up if you try to move them out of the city. None of us give a crap about what you do with your life, but you are coming and asking for feedback on your plans and whether you will get a "piece of paper" or not. The points we are bringing should be clarifying things for you so you have a better idea of what you are up against.

Well, I didn't realize this was a dad's forum hence so much tension. Moms would probably have a different perspective.

Please stop saying you don't want to move the children, and then repeat that you will want to be able to move after you graduate to get another job. We aren't stupid. You want to be able to move the children when you want but you want the benefit of a non-mobility clause NOW so that you can avoid moving for an internship. You will have a hard time setting up this scenario.

"facepalm" I want to not move for the internship now BECAUSE of the kids. Sure I could have gotten by myself, single and carefree, and left the dads to deal with this but they aren't willing or capable, this isn't going to be good for the children.

The children's fathers aren't perfect parents and haven't voluntarily stepped up to the plate. You aren't perfect either, and no other parent is. This isn't about them, it is about the kids having regular access to their father's, it is the kids' right. That is how the court will see it.
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Well, no I'm not perfect but I'm the primary caregiver and it's always been the case. I would imagine being separated from their primary caregiver is a bigger evil. Sure it is their dads' right to see the kids. Who's taking it away? They can travel, if they need to.
 
Google is your friend too, you know. You're willing to do the research for anything that will work to your benefit, but not against you. Seems to me you're setting yourself up for a reality check the hard and expensive way rather than considering the advice and perspective that's been offered to you.

Good luck, sounds like you'll need it.

ETA: And what personal projections might that be?
 
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Everything is fine. Do what you want, because what is good for you is obviously in the best interests of the children. Any idiot can see that.
 
As a child that grew up never knowing my father and having an amazing step father I can see your point. My father was a morphine addicted alchoholic. One weekend that he had my brother and I he went out on a bender and never came back, leaving my brother and I alone the whole weekend. I was 18 months, my brother was 3. When the police broke in they found my brother on the kitchen counter trying to find food for us. 3 years old and he was feeding me crackers and filling my bottles with water. I had been in the same diaper for days and ended up in the hospital as my skin was falling off in places.
I firmly believe simply because someone is a mother/father does not automatically make them a good one. I believe parents need to earn the right to be with their kids by being good parents. Why should a child have to go where they are being neglected and abused? Because they share the same DNA with that person? It's ludicrous.
I did not find out that my step father was not my real father until I was 11 and I was devastated. I never cared to know my real father other then being curious if I looked like him. In your situation you say that both fathers want to spend time with their children, but do not want to take them full time. That's too bad for them. From what I gather, you are not wanting to move them away, but see if there is some way you can get some sort of legal documents asking your school to do your internship where you currently reside so as not to disrupt the current access schedule? Have you tried talking to a counsellor in your school about your options? Maybe they can try to be more accomodating because of your situation?
 
blinkandimgone said:
Google is your friend too, you know. You're willing to do the research for anything that will work to your benefit, but not against you. Seems to me you're setting yourself up for a reality check the hard and expensive way rather than considering the advice and perspective that's been offered to you.

Good luck, sounds like you'll need it.
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I got some good advice and thank you for that but most of the things I say is turning out evil and unreasonable in your eyes. Not sure why you can't see my perspective on things at all. Maybe because it looks like it's a guys place to complain.

I'm not trying to start a battle. If i wanted to, i would have gotten thru courts with them already and took whatever belongs to me (child support, sole custody etc). I didn't, as we have been able to agree on things and this way no one is fighting or hating each other.

I did read a few court orders or whatever you call it when the mother was allowed to move the kids even out of the country because she has been the one to care for the kids from the beginning and the fathers were not too involved. It didn't seem all that complicated. Maybe I'm wrong. Well, we'll cross that if we ever get to it in the first place.
 
Mess said:
Everything is fine. Do what you want, because what is good for you is obviously in the best interests of the children. Any idiot can see that.
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Well, since the fathers voluntarily awarded me with the primary caregiver's role, they entrusted me with the best interests of the children by default.
 
In my case the father tried to block our move, even though he hadn't lived near us for years and the move was not affecting his access at all. He also asked for sole custody and move them to where he lives. The Judge told him I had 'Status Quo' and moving them to him would cause them more disruption to them then the move to our new house would so it was dismissed. It really depends on your situation.
 
MommaBear73 said:
As a child that grew up never knowing my father and having an amazing step father I can see your point. My father was a morphine addicted alchoholic. One weekend that he had my brother and I he went out on a bender and never came back, leaving my brother and I alone the whole weekend. I was 18 months, my brother was 3. When the police broke in they found my brother on the kitchen counter trying to find food for us. 3 years old and he was feeding me crackers and filling my bottles with water. I had been in the same diaper for days and ended up in the hospital as my skin was falling off in places.
I firmly believe simply because someone is a mother/father does not automatically make them a good one. I believe parents need to earn the right to be with their kids by being good parents. Why should a child have to go where they are being neglected and abused? Because they share the same DNA with that person? It's ludicrous.
I did not find out that my step father was not my real father until I was 11 and I was devastated. I never cared to know my real father other then being curious if I looked like him. In your situation you say that both fathers want to spend time with their children, but do not want to take them full time. That's too bad for them. From what I gather, you are not wanting to move them away, but see if there is some way you can get some sort of legal documents asking your school to do your internship where you currently reside so as not to disrupt the current access schedule? Have you tried talking to a counsellor in your school about your options? Maybe they can try to be more accomodating because of your situation?
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LOL, just as I thought. Surprise, surprise. A woman's perspective. Yes, this is exactly what I'm after, a legal document. I think this should work out alright.
 
MommaBear73 said:
In my case the father tried to block our move, even though he hadn't lived near us for years and the move was not affecting his access at all. He also asked for sole custody and move them to where he lives. The Judge told him I had 'Status Quo' and moving them to him would cause them more disruption to them then the move to our new house would so it was dismissed. It really depends on your situation.
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I would think it's similar. If the fathers tried and did something actively right after the separation, or showed some kind of effort to be a responsible decision maker and not just a weekend huggiekissie, I could see them going somewhere with a joint custody or something similar. It's Status Quo here right now and I'm trying to keep it this way, maybe I don't even need a relocation clause. Will ask the lawyer.
 
Mine currently states that I cannot move outside of Ontario without his permission. He is in the military so he can move wherever he likes, but as his new spouse has a clause in her divorce that she can't leave the city they live in he can't take a posting without it causing major problems. It's crazy.
 
I thought your contract would be mutually binding? Or did you let him go b/c he needs to travel in order to work? I don't really care if I can't move but life is life, what if there are no jobs where I am, their dads aren't great at bread winning...and kids sure need hugs and such but good nutrition is also important.
 
Oh another question, Mommabear. You are saying you cannot leave Ontario without his permission. Assuming you are employed, would your employer still be able to send you on a business related trip outside of Ontario?
 
Nope, he did up the order after much discussion and I just signed it. I am not ever leaving Ontario, so I had no problem with it. He is currently trying to change said order. He doesn't feel he should pay the support that he is supposed to according the child support guidelines and wants to put a cap on it as well having me sign away any rights to involving the FRO. He is arrears and does not want them involved.
Your ability to provide a better life for your children is in their best interest and I would like to think that it would have bearing with a Judge, but I can't say for sure. It may just depend on the Judge you get. Seeing their fathers is important and in their best interest as well, but if the fathers aren't pulling their weight and only seeing them sporadically how is that good for the kids? Do they see them on a set schedule?
 
Zhoozhelitsa said:
Oh another question, Mommabear. You are saying you cannot leave Ontario without his permission. Assuming you are employed, would your employer still be able to send you on a business related trip outside of Ontario?
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I am a SAHM at the moment as I have a 4 month old. I can leave the province for a business trip if I want, I just can't move the kids out of here. Also, in his 'new' order he wants me to ask his permission if I want to leave the province with them even just to go visit friends for a few days.
 
What do you mean he doesn't feel like paying? Is it an option?

They have a verbally set schedule of sorts. My daughter used to see her dad every weekend but now that she is older, she prefers her girlfriends instead. So maybe 2 weekends a month at the most. They just hang out. That, and child support, is all he has to provide.
My son's dad has him every other weekend and also every now and then during the week, whenever he feels like it or sometimes to babysit him if I have to run errands. They just go out, have fun and play.
 
MommaBear73 said:
I am a SAHM at the moment as I have a 4 month old. I can leave the province for a business trip if I want, I just can't move the kids out of here. Also, in his 'new' order he wants me to ask his permission if I want to leave the province with them even just to go visit friends for a few days.
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But if you have to go and you are a single mom, what do you do? That's my problem. I have no family here.
 
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