Dad will help other Dads

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Yes, you're right, Sean. It's very difficult to maintain a theoretical perspective when you are realistically affected and involved. I don't want my divorce to poison my entire life; part of managing my feelings is venting them, and I don't want to worsen things between my ex and I, so I vent here.

I think one thing DecentDad and I both have in common; clearly neither of us feels 'heard' by the courts, the system, whatever you may call it.
 
Sasha1 -

What do you think it would take to give you a feeling that you have been heard by the system and validated as a result. I would ask that of anyone who feels similar to you as well :)
 
Let me give that question some serious thought, Sean, and come back to it, ok? I think it merits some self-examination.

I do appreciate you've asked; thank you for that. :)
 
Divorcemanagement said:
Sasha1 -

What do you think it would take to give you a feeling that you have been heard by the system and validated as a result. I would ask that of anyone who feels similar to you as well :)
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Let me go first ;) . I think my biggest beef is that my case when on for so long and it wasn't until the last year (of four) that the Judges were pushing to keep the file on "track". Part of the problem was getting the ex to disclose financial info. I think he had a total of 8 orders for disclosure, I think the Judge should have struck his pleadings earlier in the process. His tactic was always to not pay any support and "starve me financially out of the process". My ex used the Family Court system to legally bully me and treated it as game that only he could afford to play, and the courts allowed it.

My next beef is that his lawyers allowed him to do this, up until he went through I think a total of 5 or 6, then he couldn't find anyone to represent him. I hired respectable lawyers from the start, that wouldn't play the game back, which actually served me well in the end, but it was frustrating during the process.

And my third beef is the media; despite a court ordered publication ban, there was still press coverage, which mortified the children.

And last but not least, yes I get my back up when I hear of Fathers Rights Groups. Not that I'm not all for Fathers Rights and I am rooting for all the Dad's that are denied access and are truly in a financial crisis. But my ex hid behind these groups for years until they finally gave up on him. So I would say personally I am a bit biased.

I will leave you with a quote from one of the daily newspapers. The headline was "Judge slams abhorrent behavior"...Ontario Court Justice J.K. harshly condemned the action of John Doe. Mr. Does' behaviour was disgusting, reprehensible and abhorrent the Judge said. The damage he has done to his family is significant. (That statement did validate things for me).

Will I let this define my life or the lives of the children, absolutely not if I can get through this so can everyone. We just need to support each other. Time does heal. And councelling really does help, but you have to stick with it. And one up side to this terrible situation is that I have been able to help others get through it, which has also been theareputic for me personally.

Does "the system" need changes, yes, but it's what we have to live with for now until someone steps up to the plate and changes it.
 
Grace:

Your insights into your experience with the family law system point out it's very real limitations. The huge challenge is in coming up with an alternative to the system we've got - one where neither party can take advantage of the other party because of their financial clout, emotional clout or anything else you can think of.

I would personally like to see a community based approach to dealing with divorce matters where the courts are there as a final arbiter, but where mechanisms exist that combine dispute resolution with divorce education and counselling. There has to be a reason why one or both parties is intent on waging war - perhaps if the supports were delivered immediately upon separation, we might see a change in behaviors that will result in better outcomes for everyone involved.
 
Divorcemanagement said:
Sasha1 -

What do you think it would take to give you a feeling that you have been heard by the system and validated as a result. I would ask that of anyone who feels similar to you as well :)
Click to expand...

I'm going to start an independant thread for this in the Support forum. See you there!
 
My heart goes out to all of you - it comforts me too in that I'm not the only one feeling this alienation, disrespect from the system and constant worry that 60 hour work weeks will not be enough to pay the $4500 they want to skin from me monthly in CS, SS and extra. In the greedy eyes of my ex (who I gave the house, car and cottage to) I should support her for the rest of her life because I got away and did better for myself, yet with the temporary order for SS, I can't afford a lawyer to go to trial.

"And justice for all..." NOT!
 
My husband is in the same position and now ex wants more....post scd. cost including half of res. fees as well as tuition and supplies and transportation. Ontop of this she wants some ongoing support to keep a room for this child in the family home for when he comes to visit. After deductions and child support (2 children) we can not afford our daily living expenses. The judge at conferrence said you had better get a grip cause you will have a second child atteding college soon and you will be paying both expenses. We are currently relying on food banks and can not pay our bills. We had an Attorney but had to let her go as we ran out of money. This system is so unfair!
 
FPI said:
Thanks for you incouragement Bearall and Decenddad. It is a tough battle that I'm facing, what the finally results will be only God knows at the moment.
I pray that somehow the law changes in the future and make each spouse responsible for his or her children. The way it is know men don't stand a chance from what I have read.
I Know after February Case Conference I will be devasted and most likely go into Severe Depression. I have my mom that’s really been there for me and I do get counselling. However, the pain is eating away at me. As I Wright this letters I look around my house and says to myself this is where my children were born, this is where they played, this was there home. She took that all away from them. WHY how much better can it be for her on the other side.
I strongly feel if the courts weren't so biased maybe some couples that split up might get back together. Thank you all for lisenting
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FPI, I'm reading your thread and can feel your pain.
 
Hi Decent Dad

Seems like we may be working towards the same goals. Could you try to contact me as I would like to learn more about what you are doing and maybe work together. We have the media (expect that our story will be on the news in less than a months time) and lawyers behind us.

AtALoss & Constitution1
 
I feel extremely sorry for all you honest and loyal husbands (men). Being taken to the cleaners by your ex wife is so unfair and sad. BUT what about some of US WOMEN that are being screwed over by their ex...I'll just tell you a bit because I really don't need to be attacked by any men out on these sites. My ex make $222,000.00 plus bonuses...a VP of a huge company. I stayed home for 18 years to raise the kids as he travelled and got laid (sorry for the blunt term) I get $48,000.00 per year for 3 kids and pennies for spousal support. Can't go back to work yet...still working on damage control for the kids (one being diagnosed with a brain tumor) and me getting a nervous breakdown because of him. So, not the right time to work. I am not getting enough money monthly to support the 4 of us....So, tell me HOW DID I GET SO SCREWED OVER??? He made a separation agreement last AUgust '08 that I signed and he hasn't followed it yet. He pays me what ever he feels like it, my lawyer is taking his time and getting rich on me and I'm sitting here on this forum trying to get some help and support. I just started reading what the ex husbands go through but shit...I feel like I'm just like on of you guys...My story is way too long, I'm sick of talking about it...I just want all of this to end.
Good luck to all you honest men out there
 
mamoosha said:
I feel extremely sorry for all you honest and loyal husbands (men). Being taken to the cleaners by your ex wife is so unfair and sad. BUT what about some of US WOMEN that are being screwed over by their ex...I'll just tell you a bit because I really don't need to be attacked by any men out on these sites. My ex make $222,000.00 plus bonuses...a VP of a huge company. I stayed home for 18 years to raise the kids as he travelled and got laid (sorry for the blunt term) I get $48,000.00 per year for 3 kids and pennies for spousal support. Can't go back to work yet...still working on damage control for the kids (one being diagnosed with a brain tumor) and me getting a nervous breakdown because of him. So, not the right time to work. I am not getting enough money monthly to support the 4 of us....So, tell me HOW DID I GET SO SCREWED OVER??? He made a separation agreement last AUgust '08 that I signed and he hasn't followed it yet. He pays me what ever he feels like it, my lawyer is taking his time and getting rich on me and I'm sitting here on this forum trying to get some help and support. I just started reading what the ex husbands go through but shit...I feel like I'm just like on of you guys...My story is way too long, I'm sick of talking about it...I just want all of this to end.
Good luck to all you honest men out there
Click to expand...
sorry to hear that, but after reading the tragedies by fathers r not wallets and others, you don't really sound so screwed over. when I had my first full time job at a very successful online game company, I worked my ass off everyday, but I made less than what you get for living with and taking care of your kids. believe it or not, there are dads out there who can't even get to see their kids. they'd be dying to to take care of the kids for free! it's not a burden, but it's a privilege to get to spend so much time with your kids.

what's wrong with the system is that it doesn't see that it's a choice a mom or a dad can voluntarily make, whether to take care of the kids or not. if it is your choice, then you should be reasonably responsible for the basic needs for your kinds, not solely financed by the dad. nowadays, there are many many working single moms who are doing their best to give what their kids need (kudos to them). your whining maybe sound like an insult to such hard working moms. but sadly it's not how the system see things.

moms whine, moms win. dads are monsters, let them pay the bills.
 
mamoosha said:
"I get $48,000.00 per year for 3 kids and pennies for spousal support. Can't go back to work yet..."

"I am not getting enough money monthly to support the 4 of us....So, tell me HOW DID I GET SO SCREWED OVER???"
Click to expand...

A little off topic, but.....

Mamoosha,

I am sorry to hear about your ill child and your mental health issues; however....

You're saying that you get $4000 per MONTH in NON TAXABLE INCOME.....in child support alone (plus undivulged amount of spousal support), and you say you aren't "getting enough". :eek:

AS IF....

MOST families don't even have that much money.... and they support their children...

I get that your ex makes the big bucks, but seriously, please don't complain about your CS payments.

There are CP's on this forum that a lot less than you... and some get nothing at all....:mad:

They are the ones who truly got "screwed over".
 
Woah here I dont think there is need of personal attacks and critacizms. NONE of us really needs that. so please stop.

I have been very vocal on the topic of support and in defence of both sides. As many of you know my current spouse has had quite the ordeal with FRO., and like wise there are many men out there that have similar. BUT on the other side of the coin there are many recipiants that are getting messed over by FRO as well. It does not matter what you think about the entitlements the whole issue is that FRO is riddled with administrative issues that we all deal with. Just spent an entire week of interviews with the Ombudsman going through FRO piece by piece. There is alot that is kept very well hidden.

I as a recipiant are dealing with this as well. Alot of recpiiants have orders in place and DO NOT receive as they should. Irreregardless of personal sentiment as to entitlement. Most of the time that is not the issue.

Mamoosha please feel free to private message me.
 
I'm not sure if I'm in the right place or not, but I'm very unhappily married, miserable actually and want to divorce my wife. I have a 1-year old son, and have not been married long. Just over two years. I don't make a ton of money, and want to know whether anybody knows if I will have to pay my wife both, spousal and child support when this is all said and done? She works part-time, and always worked during our marriage. Does that make a difference? Also, should I try to amicably agree on a Settlement Agreement, or retain a lawyer. I don't have alot of money. I make a modest $40k/year. Any suggestions, wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 
Bewildered said:
I'm not sure if I'm in the right place or not, but I'm very unhappily married, miserable actually and want to divorce my wife. I have a 1-year old son, and have not been married long. Just over two years. I don't make a ton of money, and want to know whether anybody knows if I will have to pay my wife both, spousal and child support when this is all said and done? She works part-time, and always worked during our marriage. Does that make a difference? Also, should I try to amicably agree on a Settlement Agreement, or retain a lawyer. I don't have alot of money. I make a modest $40k/year. Any suggestions, wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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Due to the duration of your marriage, it is very unlikely that you will have to pay spousal support, (it will be solely the Judges discretion). :)

However, if you do end up being ordered to do so, it would be for 2 years max.

As far as child support is concerned, I am assuming that you are still living with your wife and child.

If that is the case, you have an excellent chance at being awarded joint custody/shared parenting, and as such, would have to pay little if any child support, as long as the child is living with you at least 40% of the time. :)

If you leave your wife and child for any length of time, she will automatically become the primary caregiver, and "status quo" will be established.

You will most likely be granted "access". If such access is less than 40%, you will have to pay child support based on the guideline amount, based on your gross income.

Example: If you make $40,000/year in Ontario, the amount of child support you would pay for one child would be $367/month.

You would also have to pay your "share" of any Section 7 - "special and extraordinary" expenses, pro rated to your income, (daycare, medical, dental, post secondary etc).

Federal Child Support Amounts: Simplified Tables

All assets and debts incurred since the date of marriage will be split 50/50.

If at all possible, TRY TO NEGOTIATE an agreement with your wife... Litigation can be VERY EXPENSIVE and lawyers will turn your relationship with your wife into something horrible and nasty.
 
Thank You!

Thank You!

Representingself,

Thank you for your reply. It is extremely helpful and full of information that substantiate what I have already read up on online.

Perhaps you can shed some light on one more thing. Currently my wife and I are renting a house, and when discussing divorce with her, she said she would never leave. We dont' own the property, my grandmother does, and as such, we pay very cheap rent.

Who, if anyone, has to leave when the time comes? Or how does that work?
 
Ok, so here's where it gets a little tricky. :(

I am not sure if you can get a Judge to order her out.

As a Tenant, you and your wife and your grandmother are governed by the Residential Tenancies Act.

Landlord and Tenant Board home page

There are very few circumstances where your wife can be forced to move out, and SHE has to cause it.

Example: Non or late payment of rent, illegal acts or business operating from the home, grandma is demolishing the property, major renovations.

** If Grandma is renovating, then the wife has first dibbs on the place once the reno's are completed. :mad:

Your grandmother can only increase the rent amount once a year. She must follow the government regulated increase, and must give 90 days written notice. The 2009 guideline increase is only 1.8%. Increasing the rent above that amount is against the law.

So basically Grandma can't crank up the rent in order to get her out. :rolleyes:

Grandma may have a small loophole.;)

Under the current law, a landowner can force a tenant out if he/she wants to use the property for "personal use".

Such personal use can mean that Grandma wants to use the home for herself, or for her family members; however, grandchildren are NOT applicable.

IF Grandma wanted to rent out the home to her parents, her spouse or their children, she can issue a Form N12, and give your wife 60 days notice to vacate.

Even if your grandmother wanted to sell the property.... it is up to the new owner to issue a N12, so that they can use the home for their personal use....

Landlords are under some VERY STRICT laws and guidelines, and tenants are VERY protected.
 
Jeez

Jeez

Representingself,

You know so much about everything, wow!

So from what I gathered from your reply, if my grandmother uses the house for personal use, i.e., my father moves in, we can serve her with a Form N12, and my father can then move in with me? I can still stay, as long as my father moves in?

Also, when should all this happen? Because from my understanding, I cannot abandon the home or let my wife take the child because that would hinder my changes of being awarded joint custody.

What exactly should I be doing at this early stage? We still live together and nothing has been done yet from either side.

In order to be granted a divorce, I understand you have to be separated for 1-year. Should we live in the together during this time, and how can I prove that we lead separate lives while living in the same house?

OR, do I serve her with the Form N12 to get her out, but I dont' want her to take my son.

I'm so confused. My biggest worry is having my son taken away. He is my whole life and I will do whatever I have to to stay in his life full time.

What is your situation. Are you divorced now, or still going through it?
 
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