Converting Sole To Joint

[LostFather]

The system is unfair to all the good parents not just dads!!

Sorry tug, not with you on this one, yes there is the odd mother out there that is having trouble accessing her children, but if you look at the stats or even this site, you see very quickly who is disadvantage here in the system.


You seem to be suggesting that your ex is hiding money...what difference would it really make a month? Is it really worth the fight to go after what is in some cases a 'few' bucks? I'm not saying that it is in your case, but if every time a father wants to see his children more, the 'getting out of paying CS' issues is raised, then can it not be equally raised for the woman denying or fighting against it?? Can it be they do not want to loose that tax free $$$$$, I mean my ex is pulling in over $12,000 a year...tax free...that's full time job for some!...she has a job and makes 15K more a year than I do, she has the children 1 day a week more than I do, I still have to provide for them, keep a roof over their heads, put food in their bellies and cloth them....Yup this is a great system we have that is for sure.

This is a system where the CP takes all, and NCP is lucky to survive and keep place for their children to see them.... that's the idea I believe put the NCP so low that they can never fight the system, just lay down and play dead. The CP is living high on the hog and the NCP lucky to eat when the children are not with them.

This system needs to be changed in many ways, I feel for the mother that isn't getting anything....but really what is the 'need' vs entitlement, just because you're entitled, is there really that need, if it means that by taking that entitlement, dad is left homeless, the how is that in the best interests of the children?

I can tell you in my case, my children do not cost 12K a year...the children are never in new clothes they're alway in hand me downs, even their shoes..they go to school sometimes without enough food and on many occasion on empty bellies. So I have to ask here how is this money for the children??? A roof over their heads...okay I get that...but I need to do all those things too. No one is give me 12K a year to do it.

I'm sorry but I have little sympathy for the moms out there that ARE getting table amounts and then quarrel over the fact that dad didn't submits his tax returns so they might get that $25 extra a month because they're entitled. It's funny only when mom suspects dad is making more money will see go after him submitting those taxes...but when she knows that dad made significantly less, they just shut their mouths...give me a break....

 

[sandu]

There are some who will fight tooth and nail to prevent their status quo from changing.

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I am sure that she will.If its her wish she will totally cut me out of their life.Once I agreed for sole custody so it means STATUS QUO will prevail till the kids express a wish to spend more time with me.And why can't court side with me if I am willing to be a involved dad.

 

[dadtotheend]

LostFather, perhaps you can take consolation in my case. (And NBDad's to name just one another that comes to mind.)

I have sole custody, income is $70K, Mom's is $35K. She pays (or should be, and will be soon, but that's another story, $6K/year in CS). That seems to the revese of what you just described. So it happens. The reason it happens is that I left no stone unturned and saw the matter through in court and didn't give in to the steretypes and throw in the towel.

More importantly, she moved from the home to another town 1 hour away from the kids. She is still there and shows no sign of moving closer in which case she may have a reasonable case for shared parenting.

The point is, and I feel like a broken record saying this, moms get primary residence most of the time, NOT because they are Mom, but because they are the primary caregiver to the kids. When dads take on that role, and are willing to prove it in a court if necessary they will get primary residence.

Don't cry in the gender bias river until you have been or willing to become the primary caregiver and are willing to prove it if necessary.

 

[sandu]

.

More importantly, she moved from the home to another town 1 hour away from the kids. She is still there and shows no sign of moving closer in which case she may have a reasonable case for shared parenting.

Don't cry in the gender bias river until you have been or willing to become the primary caregiver and are willing to prove it if necessary.

So If I move closer to the mother's residence I do have a case of shared parenting.I also mentioned in my affidavit that how I can be a great help in their upbringing being more qualified and a tennis champion .

 

[dadtotheend]

I am sure that she will.If its her wish she will totally cut me out of their life.Once I agreed for sole custody so it means STATUS QUO will prevail till the kids express a wish to spend more time with me.And why can't court side with me if I am willing to be a involved dad.

Because status quo is the least disruptive thing the court can do to the children in a climate of disagreement, perhaps hostility and because the courts are very limited in knowing what's really best for the kids. That's the parents job. I'm not going to make the argument here for status quo, do a search and you will find all the compelling reasons why the court's best, if not ideal for the kids, remedy is to preserve the status quo.

I'm sorry that you allowed sole custody. But that's a done decision now and unfortunately you are going to have a very uphill battle changing it.

That said:

1.Don't talk about plans to move. Do it and then tell the court. If you don't the judge will just tell you that your plans are only that - plans.

2.After you move, do everything you can to involve yourself more in your kids lives - volunteer on school trips, go to their extra-cirricular activities, meet with the teachers, attend the doctor's/dentist appointments etc etc. Search the determinants of custody and get more involved!

3.Don't bring any court action re custody/access until you have done 1. and 2. above i.e. until you have established a new status quo that puts you more involved in the kids lives beyond the parenting schedule.

4.Do bring a motion for change in CS.

5.Don't argue that your increased access and custody wishes will be good for mom. It's not your place to plan her life, and you will be setting yourself up for a fall when they start to call you controlling, which IS a gender bias argument, one which you want to absolutely steer clear of.

6.You need to get your financial house in order while you make the changes above. You probably need a year or so of establishing a new status quo before the court will listen to your custody/access arguments. Get a game plan for dealing with that debt and getting a good job. Otherwise you will have no resources with which to go to court and make your custody/access arguments.

 

[dadtotheend]

I also mentioned in my affidavit that how I can be a great help in their upbringing being more qualified and a tennis champion .

I hope your affidavit has a little more polished language than that.

"More qualified"? How? Because you're a tennis champion? She will say your kids hate tennis. Be specific and relate it to the children's needs.

 

[tugofwar]

You seem to be suggesting that your ex is hiding money...what difference would it really make a month? Is it really worth the fight to go after what is in some cases a 'few' bucks? I'm not saying that it is in your case, but if every time a father wants to see his children more, the 'getting out of paying CS' issues is raised, then can it not be equally raised for the woman denying or fighting against it?? Can it be they do not want to loose that tax free $$$$$, I mean my ex is pulling in over $12,000 a year...tax free...that's full time job for some!...she has a job and makes 15K more a year than I do, she has the children 1 day a week more than I do, I still have to provide for them, keep a roof over their heads, put food in their bellies and cloth them....Yup this is a great system we have that is for sure.

This is a system where the CP takes all, and NCP is lucky to survive and keep place for their children to see them.... that's the idea I believe put the NCP so low that they can never fight the system, just lay down and play dead. The CP is living high on the hog and the NCP lucky to eat when the children are not with them.

This system needs to be changed in many ways, I feel for the mother that isn't getting anything....but really what is the 'need' vs entitlement, just because you're entitled, is there really that need, if it means that by taking that entitlement, dad is left homeless, the how is that in the best interests of the children?

I can tell you in my case, my children do not cost 12K a year...the children are never in new clothes they're alway in hand me downs, even their shoes..they go to school sometimes without enough food and on many occasion on empty bellies. So I have to ask here how is this money for the children??? A roof over their heads...okay I get that...but I need to do all those things too. No one is give me 12K a year to do it.

I'm sorry but I have little sympathy for the moms out there that ARE getting table amounts and then quarrel over the fact that dad didn't submits his tax returns so they might get that $25 extra a month because they're entitled. It's funny only when mom suspects dad is making more money will see go after him submitting those taxes...but when she knows that dad made significantly less, they just shut their mouths...give me a break....

Everyone is speaking from their experiences and they range from person to person. There are too many times I see posts saying if I get these days, this much time am I close to 40%? Should I rush and get an adjustment to cs payments?

If it was a difference between seeing your child more and continue paying, what is more important?

I am trying to not do anything about him making more, hiding money cause he doesn't feel he needs to financially support his child. That's what is happening here.

He has the choice to have more access time, that was not the issue, the issue here is it's there and he chooses not to do anything about it.
He refuses still to pay support and from my last conversation still trying to get out of the temp order set forth in spring ( with retro that he agreed to)

What bothers me is dads having to be told by lawyers, others to be more active in their child's life, why cause they want to or to show the courts etc that they are more involved or caring? Why couldn't they do this on their own and for selfless reasons?
I understand there are alot of really rotten parents both males and females and yes this system sucks!

 

[tugofwar]

Can it be they do not want to loose that tax free $$$$$, I mean my ex is pulling in over $12,000 a year...tax free...that's full time job for some!

Ha, my ex is claiming around that amount that he's living off. That's not even enough for mortgage and bills let alone everything else.

 

[dadtotheend]

What bothers me is dads having to be told by lawyers, others to be more active in their child's life, why cause they want to or to show the courts etc that they are more involved or caring? Why couldn't they do this on their own and for selfless reasons?

It is sad that folks (dad or mom) have to be told that instead of realizing it themselves and doing it for the love of it rather than the strategy of it.

I'm proud to say that I was and am that guy that does it for the love of it.

I'm lucky to have a job that is very time-flexible. Yesterday I went to the school yard to pick up the kids, watched them play on the climbing equipment, chatted with the other parents, gave them a little change to go to store to get treats with their buddies, laid down on the ground with my son while he wore my shades and looked at the low clouds going east and the high clouds going west, watched the school baseball game. Joked around with a couple of other dad's calling them "house husbands". Hung around for almost two hours before leaving the school yard at 5:30pm to go home. THAT's what I'm talking about. Today I'll be there at 3:30pm for more of the same.

You don't have to have a flexible job to do that. You can take off early here and there and do it too.

If you need a lawyer to tell you to do that, you gots some changin to do.

 

[tugofwar]

It is sad that folks (dad or mom) have to be told that instead of realizing it themselves and doing it for the love of it rather than the strategy of it.

If you need a lawyer to tell you to do that, you gots some changin to do.

That's what I am battling against right now. He's being told to do this but doing an half ass job and it's even worse than thinking he doesn't care at all....
It's just frustrating that I know this is happening just cause we are in court. He doesn't get it! I stopped forcing things with him, first listened to his parents and that just made the biggest mess ever but now he's got the best lawyer in town and wow, he's a reformed parent.
Give me a break....

 

[dadtotheend]

You have to find a way to let that go. Yes, it's immensely frustrating, but you have to put yourself in a mindset where you expect the least and hope for better, otherwise you devote precious energy to things you can't control.

 

[LostFather]

LostFather, perhaps you can take consolation in my case. (And NBDad's to name just one another that comes to mind.)

I have sole custody, income is $70K, Mom's is $35K. She pays (or should be, and will be soon, but that's another story, $6K/year in CS). That seems to the revese of what you just described. So it happens. The reason it happens is that I left no stone unturned and saw the matter through in court and didn't give in to the steretypes and throw in the towel.

More importantly, she moved from the home to another town 1 hour away from the kids. She is still there and shows no sign of moving closer in which case she may have a reasonable case for shared parenting.

The point is, and I feel like a broken record saying this, moms get primary residence most of the time, NOT because they are Mom, but because they are the primary caregiver to the kids. When dads take on that role, and are willing to prove it in a court if necessary they will get primary residence.

Don't cry in the gender bias river until you have been or willing to become the primary caregiver and are willing to prove it if necessary.

Yes I do know of reversals....as for being the 'primary caregiver' what i joke, I was...she tried to commit suicide, I looked after the children, fed them cleaned them took them to school and wiped their bums, for all of there years since birth, while mom lay in bed, no of that mattered, at separation she took the children wouldn't let me see them, then after awhile only every second weekend....now it's status quo...took 2+ years to get to trail....too bad so sad! She was in hand with rosary beads and the judge took the bait, hook line and sinker..

Now I am in appeal...broke from the first lawyer, need almost 4K in transcripts, which I have 2 of the three days, just in court today,,if I do not have my transcripts and my appeal perfected by the end of Oct, bye bye appeal...not based on merit of the case...but because of money...I have turned every stone...there are no more stones to turn DTTE.

I have a great case based on law along, not mention what is inside those transcripts....but will never happen...unless I win the lottery..what can I do...there is no money o be borrowed...anywhere...except payday loans...then I loose my 2 bedroom apt because the money will be taken to repay the payday loan would be for rent. So while I am glad it worked for you...I think your situation is NOT the norm.

 

[dadtotheend]

Yes I do know of reversals....as for being the 'primary caregiver' what i joke, I was...she tried to commit suicide, I looked after the children, fed them cleaned them took them to school and wiped their bums, for all of there years since birth, while mom lay in bed, no of that mattered, at separation she took the children wouldn't let me see them, then after awhile only every second weekend....now it's status quo...took 2+ years to get to trail....too bad so sad! She was in hand with rosary beads and the judge took the bait, hook line and sinker.

How is it that the court wasn't able to see that you were the primary caregiver? Were you not able to convince the judge of her suicide attempt and three year stay in bed? How is it that she took the kids at separation? Did you allow that? Did you bring an emergency motion?

 

[NBDad]

Dude, you don't have ANYWHERE near as uphill a battle as I did...guarantee you.

I had to fight a falsified ex parte order, hound CPS, the minister of social development, CRA, the ombudman, my MP, to name but a few to get where I am.

I've fought against attempts to move the children away from the town, and numerous allegations, perjured affidavits, the whole 9 yards.

It *IS* possible. You need to play your cards PERFECTLY. If she had attempted suicide and had basically spent 3 years in bed, then you should have had your ass into court for an ex parte hearing based on her instability and medical history the DAY she left.

You should have requested a parental capacity study, OCL involvement, or called freaking CPS on her. There were dozens of things you COULD have done, and your lawyer should have advised you to do.

I used to have the flexibility that DTTE has...my ex cost me that job by her little games, and the one that followed it as well. Given the choice between my job and my kids...my kids win, hands down, all the time, every time.

 

[LostFather]

How is it that the court wasn't able to see that you were the primary caregiver? Were you not able to convince the judge of her suicide attempt and three year stay in bed? How is it that she took the kids at separation? Did you allow that? Did you bring an emergency motion?

No emergency motion... emergency around here means, if the children's life or health is in danger...anyway for what ever reason...didn't happen...bad advice from a lawyer...I was stupid...as for her suicide attempt, the judge blasted us for even attempting to bring it up....you know that Post Partum thing...

We broke up...she took the children, wouldn't let me see them...I couldn't get the police to remove them, hell I have a court order now that states I get them and she still with holds them...no enforcement clause, police wont touch it.

So I am in appeal...I need to get the rest of my transcripts and perfected my appeal in 30 days...or everything I've done to this point will be lost. And just to clarify, she wasn't in bed for 3 years, mostly from 04 to 07, but the last few month before separation she ...had a miraculous cure....thats as far as I go with that.

 

[dadtotheend]

I used to have the flexibility that DTTE has...my ex cost me that job by her little games, and the one that followed it as well. Given the choice between my job and my kids...my kids win, hands down, all the time, every time.

You the man! You have said that "play your cards PERFECTLY" comment before and it has always resonated with me. I use the stone unturned comment, but we talking about the same thing.

No emergency motion... emergency around here means, if the children's life or health is in danger...anyway for what ever reason...didn't happen...bad advice from a lawyer...I was stupid...as for her suicide attempt, the judge blasted us for even attempting to bring it up....you know that Post Partum thing...

I'm so sorry that happened. Sadly you didn't turn every stone. Total f'n bummer.

The whackiest judge we drew turned my ex's stays in rehab around and into a "isn't she great for seeking treatment" story. Puked my guts out when I heard that. The answer should have been, well let Dad take over until she's better. Same judge says it's OK that child doesn't go to kindergarten one day a week in order to stay with Mom. What an idiotic thing to say!!! My kid is just now putting that "special treatment" behind him. Anyone who wants to PM me is welcome and I will give you that backwoods judge's name so you can be prepared for her lunacy.

All that said, that was a (huge) bump in the road, but it stiffened my resolve even more.

PS That multi-quote thing works like a charm.

 

[tugofwar]

You have to find a way to let that go. Yes, it's immensely frustrating, but you have to put yourself in a mindset where you expect the least and hope for better, otherwise you devote precious energy to things you can't control.

I know, another something I have to let go. But if we werent in courts I would be laughing at him.
BUT we are in court, he's not doing this for the right reasons. He might be able to foul others but honestly he's just making a foul of himself. It's sad. How does his new actions effect a decision that he's becoming the "involved parent" all of a sudden after a few weeks with new lawyer?

I have to stay focused on our child and not play the blame game. But how can I do this and not give a valid few reasons why joint would not work for us without doing alittle mudslinging?

 

[LostFather]

Dude, you don't have ANYWHERE near as uphill a battle as I did...guarantee you.

I had to fight a falsified ex parte order, hound CPS, the minister of social development, CRA, the ombudman, my MP, to name but a few to get where I am.

I've fought against attempts to move the children away from the town, and numerous allegations, perjured affidavits, the whole 9 yards.

It *IS* possible. You need to play your cards PERFECTLY. If she had attempted suicide and had basically spent 3 years in bed, then you should have had your ass into court for an ex parte hearing based on her instability and medical history the DAY she left.

You should have requested a parental capacity study, OCL involvement, or called freaking CPS on her. There were dozens of things you COULD have done, and your lawyer should have advised you to do.

I used to have the flexibility that DTTE has...my ex cost me that job by her little games, and the one that followed it as well. Given the choice between my job and my kids...my kids win, hands down, all the time, every time.

Dude, I can tell I am where you've been, I've had CAS, frivolous use of the police, all because she didn't want to follow the court order. Now she is denying me access, police will do nothing...and the financial aspects...won't even go there, but yes I do know what you've gone though, trust me.

Calls my wife a whore though my children, who then tell her then 11 year old boy...among other crap...that my boys just don't understand what they're repeating because of their age...so now my wife and I are separated..and she a dam good woman...who loved my boys and treated them as if they were her own.....which was the problem.. with my ex...she hated that her children would like their step mom sooo much,,and she made our lives a living hell for it....if my wife turned out to be that bitch that she would instill into my children's head then in some F'd up way my ex would have smiles on....

As for going after that, I wanted to, but my lawyer said no...we'll get our asses kicked by the judge...and the very little we did mention at trial...we got a reaming over in the decision..I won't even being to mention what has been going on at school and my ex's behavior there, the officials are starting to catch on to her..and going to help me...but that has 2-3 years of me trying to explain to them...no one would help. Now I have the Superintendent involved...as well as the principle...now they're just starting to see through her rosary beads.

 

[LostFather]

You the man! You have said that "play your cards PERFECTLY" comment before and it has always resonated with me. I use the stone unturned comment, but we talking about the same thing.



I'm so sorry that happened. Sadly you didn't turn every stone. Total f'n bummer.

The whackiest judge we drew turned my ex's stays in rehab around and into a "isn't she great for seeking treatment" story. Puked my guts out when I heard that. The answer should have been, well let Dad take over until she's better. Same judge says it's OK that child doesn't go to kindergarten one day a week in order to stay with Mom. What an idiotic thing to say!!! My kid is just now putting that "special treatment" behind him. Anyone who wants to PM me is welcome and I will give you that backwoods judge's name so you can be prepared for her lunacy.

All that said, that was a (huge) bump in the road, but it stiffened my resolve even more.

PS That multi-quote thing works like a charm.

I been though something similar....she tries to commit suicide...doesn't seek help...nothing....but she's a survivor...I take a few months off of work stress, seek therapy...and the judge (same judge at trial actually) give me the what for, tells me I am just trying to avoid CS, which in spite of my time off I paid every f'in cent...I have doctors assessment with me...judge didn't care...I was th bad guy here..even though I had my children taking away from and left in financial ruin, that apparently wasn't enough for him...but see tried to commit suicide, leave pill bottle on the counter where the children could've reach...in it was 80mg of oxycotin, still about 15 pills left...they took out 23 out of her stomach....and I am the shit head....because I'm being bullied by my ex who using the children as weapons...what a system we have.

 

[tugofwar]

How about starting a new thread.... I think it would be really good as people need to read your stories, struggles and what you have been able to overcome.