Confused - Financial Disclosure, Sale of House, and Separation Agreement
- Thread starter FREEATLAST2013
- Start date
- Status
FREEATLAST2013
New member
Pursuinghappiness, thank you for the advise... I really like you list... what can i say... I am a lists and tables kind-a girl... 
And, I guess my biggest problem is that I have too much empathy... and never want to hurt anybody (it took me 4 years to finally make a decision to divorce him
). So for me going to court would be the last resort. I rather give in a bit, and hope that he will see the light, and realise that I am still trying to help him (i.e. I am the one looking for housing for him, I keep on asking him if he is sure he does not want our old car, I organized all his paperwork, I still do his laundry, and I still send him job postings, not to mention I still pay all his bills). I know, some may say I am sucker for punishment… I’d like to think that I have been with this person for so many years, that its worth a try to keep things amicable.
Up till now, my biggest concern was that he would go for Spousal Support, but with the information I gained from you guys, it seems that he will most likely not get spousal support, of if he does, it will be much smaller amount then what I got using the calculator on the web (it came up to $1600 per month!!!
).
For that alone, I am extremely great full to all you … you gave me some peace of mind and ability to sleep at night
And, I guess my biggest problem is that I have too much empathy... and never want to hurt anybody (it took me 4 years to finally make a decision to divorce him
). So for me going to court would be the last resort. I rather give in a bit, and hope that he will see the light, and realise that I am still trying to help him (i.e. I am the one looking for housing for him, I keep on asking him if he is sure he does not want our old car, I organized all his paperwork, I still do his laundry, and I still send him job postings, not to mention I still pay all his bills). I know, some may say I am sucker for punishment… I’d like to think that I have been with this person for so many years, that its worth a try to keep things amicable.Up till now, my biggest concern was that he would go for Spousal Support, but with the information I gained from you guys, it seems that he will most likely not get spousal support, of if he does, it will be much smaller amount then what I got using the calculator on the web (it came up to $1600 per month!!!
). For that alone, I am extremely great full to all you … you gave me some peace of mind and ability to sleep at night
And it's that "hope that he will......", that will come back and bite you.
Have you closed the joint LOC and accounts, cellphone etc as advised above?
If you haven't, then don't say you were told if things get worst.
Have you closed the joint LOC and accounts, cellphone etc as advised above?
If you haven't, then don't say you were told if things get worst.
Pursuinghappiness, thank you for the advise... I really like you list... what can i say... I am a lists and tables kind-a girl...
And, I guess my biggest problem is that I have too much empathy... and never want to hurt anybody (it took me 4 years to finally make a decision to divorce him
Up till now, my biggest concern was that he would go for Spousal Support, but with the information I gained from you guys, it seems that he will most likely not get spousal support, of if he does, it will be much smaller amount then what I got using the calculator on the web (it came up to $1600 per month!!!
For that alone, I am extremely great full to all you … you gave me some peace of mind and ability to sleep at night
You're worried about spousal? You were supporting him during marriage... you are supporting him during separation... and you'll most likely be supporting him for a long while. He's just sitting back and loving it.
FREEATLAST2013
New member
Well, keep in mind that I am supporting him, to play nice, and agree to get him to sign the Separation Agreement. Its my way of ensuring that right now, we are still talking and he is willing to compromise on points of the agreement. Its basically, I give something in hopes that he gives something in return. But he knows that he has one more month of this free living arrangement. My goal is to have the Separation Agreement signed by both parties within 3 - 4 months from the separation date.
Basically, if he signs the separation agreement, I will continue paying his bills for now, but the total will be divided in half and subtracted from his proceeds of the sale of the house. Again this is my compromise to get him to sign a waiver for equalization and spousal support – I figure if I had to go to court of fight spousal support it would be way more money then paying half of his expenses for the next couple of months. If he does not sign the agreement, I completely cut him off, and go the court route. This will mean that he will have to make arrangements regarding his loans, and other expenses.
Pursuinghappiness
New member
Free:
Then given what you said, here's my suggestion:
1. Allow a reasonable amount of time for negotiation. Write down your expectations clearly including your "deal-breaker" points and communicate to him that you will not compromise on those points.
and 2. Most importantly! PUT A DROP-DEAD DATE ON IT. And DO NOT WAIVER! IF HE FAILS TO COMPROMISE ON YOUR "DEAL-BREAKERS" OR FAILS TO COMPLY WITH THE FINAL DATE FOR SIGNATURE...FILE FOR DIVORCE IMMEDIATELY THE DAY AFTER.
You have to make it very clear to him that your mediation offer is subject to a closing date and the next day, if its not signed...you will file for a contested divorce including having a full income imputed to him and cutting off all of his extra-curriculars. At that time, he will have to get legal representation or begin the self-rep process.
You must immediately come up with that date and plan to stick with it. I'd discuss it with my attorney.
If you have a history of waffling, which it sounds like you do...mediation could drag on forever because there is no reason for him to settle earlier. So you need to grow a backbone before this slug takes you for everything you own. I appreciate how kind and patient you are but for your own self-preservation (and I speak from experience) take care of yourself a bit here...don't be a fool. This way, you're being fair but you're not wasting copious amounts of time and money at a mediation that goes no where because he's self-absorbed and trying to take advantage of you.
Its perfectly reasonable and fair to give him a chance...that's fine...but after that, its done. File for a divorce!
Then given what you said, here's my suggestion:
1. Allow a reasonable amount of time for negotiation. Write down your expectations clearly including your "deal-breaker" points and communicate to him that you will not compromise on those points.
and 2. Most importantly! PUT A DROP-DEAD DATE ON IT. And DO NOT WAIVER! IF HE FAILS TO COMPROMISE ON YOUR "DEAL-BREAKERS" OR FAILS TO COMPLY WITH THE FINAL DATE FOR SIGNATURE...FILE FOR DIVORCE IMMEDIATELY THE DAY AFTER.
You have to make it very clear to him that your mediation offer is subject to a closing date and the next day, if its not signed...you will file for a contested divorce including having a full income imputed to him and cutting off all of his extra-curriculars. At that time, he will have to get legal representation or begin the self-rep process.
You must immediately come up with that date and plan to stick with it. I'd discuss it with my attorney.
If you have a history of waffling, which it sounds like you do...mediation could drag on forever because there is no reason for him to settle earlier. So you need to grow a backbone before this slug takes you for everything you own. I appreciate how kind and patient you are but for your own self-preservation (and I speak from experience) take care of yourself a bit here...don't be a fool. This way, you're being fair but you're not wasting copious amounts of time and money at a mediation that goes no where because he's self-absorbed and trying to take advantage of you.
Its perfectly reasonable and fair to give him a chance...that's fine...but after that, its done. File for a divorce!
FREEATLAST2013
New member
All very good points... I made him send me an email stating that he will have the Separation Agreement reviewed by a lawyer (ILA form signed) and signed by end of month. And I already have an appointment with my lawyer, and wrote a long list of questions to ask and confirm with her.
I find this process to be very draining, and its like walking a fine line... on the one hand, I would love to stick it to him... but on the other hand, I feel that I need to be reasonable and look at the big picture (and the long run) - i.e. if I stick it to him now, I get short burst of pleasure, but then this could mess up my chances of getting the Separation Agreement signed... So, paying for his bills now, may be a small chunk of cash compared to potential lawyer bills if I have to go to court.
Pursuinghappiness
New member
Totally agree and I think you're being very wise.
Just know that if you waiver on the date at all...he'll know he can manipulate you and that will set you up in the contested divorce process. So whatever date you come up with, you should not compromise on no matter what excuse he uses...and communicate that to him so he knows you're serious.
Best wishes! I hope he's smart and takes the deal.
Rioe
Well-known member
It's all very well and good to say you are being nice by paying his bills, in an attempt to be amicable till he signs the agreement. But it's weakening your case.
He has it great right now, and it's in his best interests to draw this out as long as he can. He'll say he can't find a lawyer, or that the laywer he found wants a retainer and can he have money for that, or there are issues, and the next thing you know, months and months have passed and you've been supporting him all along. Before you know it, he's having girlfriends over and driving you crazy and the agreement is still only on the distant horizon.
Plus, to esablish a firm separation date, you need to have clear financial separation! I would personally stop paying anything in his name (his cell, his credit card, student loans, etc), and since you will be the one keeping the house, change all the bills to your name right away. Turn off all the frills. See how his video game enjoyment drops when the internet is gone. If you want to be nice, maybe you could offer him a modest lump sum as an advance on his equalization from the buyout of the house. Make sure to have paperwork for this clearly spelling out that this is not spousal support.
By continuing to support him, not only are you enabling him to draw this out and live his freeloader lifestyle, you are setting a precedent status quo acknowledging that he DOES need spousal support! So then no matter how good your case is that he's capable of working, you have this conflicting behaviour that admits that he needs support. Don't make his case for him.
He has been manipulating you for ages instead of pulling his own weight. You say it took you four years to wake up to it. Don't close your eyes again.
He has it great right now, and it's in his best interests to draw this out as long as he can. He'll say he can't find a lawyer, or that the laywer he found wants a retainer and can he have money for that, or there are issues, and the next thing you know, months and months have passed and you've been supporting him all along. Before you know it, he's having girlfriends over and driving you crazy and the agreement is still only on the distant horizon.
Plus, to esablish a firm separation date, you need to have clear financial separation! I would personally stop paying anything in his name (his cell, his credit card, student loans, etc), and since you will be the one keeping the house, change all the bills to your name right away. Turn off all the frills. See how his video game enjoyment drops when the internet is gone. If you want to be nice, maybe you could offer him a modest lump sum as an advance on his equalization from the buyout of the house. Make sure to have paperwork for this clearly spelling out that this is not spousal support.
By continuing to support him, not only are you enabling him to draw this out and live his freeloader lifestyle, you are setting a precedent status quo acknowledging that he DOES need spousal support! So then no matter how good your case is that he's capable of working, you have this conflicting behaviour that admits that he needs support. Don't make his case for him.
He has been manipulating you for ages instead of pulling his own weight. You say it took you four years to wake up to it. Don't close your eyes again.
What is the deal for him? You say you are willing to give him his share of the home and pension (which he is supposed to get anyways), but you want him to give up spousal support (which he is most likely entitled to as well). He's only giving stuff up, not getting any deal...
Yes you're paying his bills and supporting him now, which is all well and good, but you've been doing it all along for years. This only adds to his entitlement for support. Plus you say, once you get out of spousal, you'll stop paying his bills shortly afterwards...
FREEATLAST2013
New member
Are you kidding me ... I guess his "deal" is that I clothed, fed and educated him for 7 years! I also took him on trips etc. The “deal” would be him saying THANK YOU for all that I did for him over the years I was married!
And based on the information I obtained from this forum, he is more than welcome to file with the court to ask for spousal support. But HE will be responsible for his own lawyer and court fees, and it would be interesting seeing him trying to convince the court that him being unemployed was not his fault but the economy, reverse discrimination, gender discrimination, etc.
He may feel entitled to a lot of things… but it does not mean that he will get it.
DowntroddenDad
New member
Well I'm not kidding at all. Take your emotions out of the situation. If you have supported him for seven years, you may be assessed as having accepted his unemployment. And that would mean he could claim entitlement. He may or may not win, but it could cost both of you big bucks to duke it out in court. My ex never said thank you for 17 years of financial support, she said, please support me for the rest of my life.
Most married people support the other spouse, no sympathy there...
I feel for you, but I think you're in for a big reality check. Even if he gets min wage imputed, you would most likely still pay support. He can easily fight for support without a lawyer or any costs. He would get interim support until trial which could be years away.
I feel for you, but I think you're in for a big reality check. Even if he gets min wage imputed, you would most likely still pay support. He can easily fight for support without a lawyer or any costs. He would get interim support until trial which could be years away.
FREEATLAST2013
New member
Well, my comment was to HappyDays... but like I said earlier... I have emails throughout the 7 years, showing disagreements about him not getting a job and doing nothing at home. I have emails that urge him to apply for various jobs. And I have MANY emails with job postings, employee agency contacts, and other job leads. So I definitely can show in court that I was not happy with him being unemployed. In fact, I actively tried to find a job for him. So that argument would not pan out in court for him.
You've only helped his claim for support. He might not get a lot, but he could self rep in court, get support, the house,pension,etc... And still hang out in the house playing video games in the mean time...while you're still paying his bills and doing his laundry.
When the judge asks for proof that he's been looking for work, he can just print off your emails... He doesn't need a lawyer, he has you fighting for him
When the judge asks for proof that he's been looking for work, he can just print off your emails... He doesn't need a lawyer, he has you fighting for him
FREEATLAST2013
New member
but why would he get minimum wage imputed, if he has the education and ability to work at much higher level? And since he will be getting a HUGE amount of money from the sale of the house, its not like he will be starving without me. So if he files an application for spousal support, why would court give it to him? Based on what?
FREEATLAST2013
New member
But those are emails I sent to him, its does not show that he actually applied for the jobs.... And doesn't he have to prove that HE was activelly searching for a job? and APPLYING for it?????
Pursuinghappiness
New member
Lets not get confused between a spouse who quits a job to stay home and raise children with this particular spouse who's been staying home so he can raise his high score on Call of Duty.
Completely different argument.
Its a lot harder to argue entitlement when you have a master's degree and are an able-bodied person who just hasn't bothered to look for a job because you have a gaming addiction.
Although I do agree the OP has enabled his behavior to an extreme length. I wouldn't have put up with this nonsense for a month, let alone 7 years.
However, she's definitely a got a very strong argument to impute a wage in the event of a contested divorce. I think its going to be a lot more difficult to mediate this though...unless she can get him to agree to waive support in lieu of some other type of compensation.
There's no doubt, she's fed the beast to some extent though.
Pursuinghappiness
New member
Free:
You can see where this is headed and why I'm skeptical about mediation.
If I were you, I'd start building your case to argue against support entitlement. Although I believe you have a very strong case to get a wage imputed...there's no doubt that you've weakened your position by tolerating it for such a long time. That's why I said in an earlier post that you seriously need to start practicing some self-preservation.
I have a sinking feeling that you're going to figure out really soon that the "lets all just get along and get this done" plan isn't going to work with this guy..he's a professional, unapologetic leech with a gaming addiction problem. I'm a pessimist because I'm in the middle of a divorce myself...but I'd plan for the worst being that he tries to take you for everything you're worth.
FREEATLAST2013
New member
Thank you, Pursuinghappiness for being a voice of reason... I just started getting really nervous about all this ... again...
To all, I do understand that I totally enabled him... but I was trying to be a supportive spouse and stick it out with him through thick and thin... So I know I am totally responsible for some of the issues at hand. But, keep in mind that there is only so much one can do... I could show him postings for jobs, but HE has to apply for them. HE has to call employment agencies etc... And HE has to go to interviews. And if he does not do that, that means HE is not looking for a job.
To all, I do understand that I totally enabled him... but I was trying to be a supportive spouse and stick it out with him through thick and thin... So I know I am totally responsible for some of the issues at hand. But, keep in mind that there is only so much one can do... I could show him postings for jobs, but HE has to apply for them. HE has to call employment agencies etc... And HE has to go to interviews. And if he does not do that, that means HE is not looking for a job.
- Status