Common As Dirt - Another Case Record

[ninehundredt]

You can't wait any longer IMO. She was demanding supervised due to her false allegations correct? Those same allegations have just been tossed out and spit on by the court ... yet, still no kids.

Her evidence attempting to portray an abusive monster have failed..the courts tossed them.

She hasn't provided any explanation as to her rationale for continuing supervised exchanges. As you mentioned it's just more stalling / delay tactics. Even after threatening a motion, her lawyer responded that they were content with the supervised exchanges based on the content of the current interim order. I'm hoping we have the motion prepared and submitted this week so I have a solid date to get in front of a judge.

This, I believe is the "Material Change in Circumstance" that would warrant a motion to change.

I still can't get over how your ex's lawyer has been conveniently "unavailable" for Case Conferences..adjournment after adjournment. Hey .. there's a child here being deprived of a relationship with their father. (RULE 2: PRIMARY OBJECTIVES...see below)

DELAY DELAY DELAY is her game plan.

1. You don't need a supervised CTR (or supervision for that matter) if she cannot prove why you would at this upcoming motion.

2. You'll have the most pristine Parenting Plan the courts have ever seen.

3. You'll present a clean record check, the fact that there's never been an issue that required the police or DV situation throughout your entire relationship.

4. Look up "Parenting After Separation classes" and do yourself a favor by registering.

5. Bring her denials of access. Send another registered letter outlining the fact that her allegations have been given no weight by the courts, your kids haven't seen you in 6 months or so and that you would like to be granted a graduated schedule, eventually leading to your desired outcome. Collect that denial as an exhibit also.

6. "Maximum Contact". This principle will guide the entire motion. You're no danger and she has nothing to say that you are...judges spit on her allegations already. These kids are entitled to see have as much contact with you as possible.

7. Provide CLRA's (I can via PM if you like), caselaw (Gawd .. I have tons just for your situation) and a nice factum (if you're going for a long motion).

8. Get an Offer to settle out and suggest mediation and www.ourfamilywizard.com for communication.

9. Bring a list of potential ppl/places for exchanges (preferably peep you both mutually know).

I forget if there was the drug/alcohol stuff there usually is...it's usually a, "allegations package" (puke). If so, get some blood tests, a hair follicle if you can afford it, and/or a full toxicology from your family Dr. ( I did all of the above. Even a liver enzyme test that can identify any binge drinking).

You're going to be fully prepared, reasonable, well dressed, soft spoken and caring.

I also want shit to hit the fan regarding their delays. This doesn't coincide with the "Primary Objectives"

Primary Objectives: Rule 2 (2)(3)(4)(5):


I want to help you with this. I know the sheer terror you've felt by having a child ripped away, being painted as a monster and having your children withheld from you. It takes a special kind of person to be able to do that to another human being.

Judges are "smart" and many are catching on. It's parents like your ex who require the supervision .. because what they're doing is child abuse in my books.

If only we had some kind of documentary to help with all of this. I highly recommend Mr. T's boot camp also.

I appreciate any advice or help offered. On a positive note, I have been able to see my kids periodically, and should be spending this coming weekend with them. I've already checked off most, if not all of the items on the list you provided. To clarify this is the current status:

1. OCL has agreed to review the case. I am aware of how this process goes, thanks to the great sticky on here. I'm hoping that a third party objective evaluation will add credence to my request for a change in custody. They accepted back in the beginning of January, and I haven't been contacted by them yet. Hoping to hear from them soon.

2. Preparing a motion to remove the supervised exchange terms from the current interim order. My lawyer is not 100% sure the judge will make the change based on the fact that the case is temporarily adjourned until the OCL investigation is completed. As an alternative (if the judge won't remove the supervised exchange terms) the current interim order would require a change to reflect the latest circumstances before it can be resubmitted to an exchange centre.

There are more specific questions I would like to ask you LF32, but it would probably be easier via instant messenger. PM me if you want to discuss.

 

[Tayken]

I'm the one with criminal charge and after the CC, I can't see my kids unless it's supervised. In your case, she's the one with criminal charge and SHE HAS THE KIDS with her and she's asking for your access to be supervised...

I hope you have a lawyer. You had to consent to the access schedule as a judge has no right to make a substantial order on custody and access at a Case Conference (CC) without consent.

No lawyer would have advised of anything like you have described and if your lawyer did... time to find a new one.

Also, something William Eddy (High Conflict Institute) often says is that once a court case starts your whole life is a matter of public record. Anything you do or say, no matter to who, could find its way into the court record.

Your best place to express "feelings" is with a clinical therapist. Even a clinical therapist would be obligated to report your statement of strangulation to law enforcement.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[mafia007]

I hope you have a lawyer. You had to consent to the access schedule as a judge has no right to make a substantial order on custody and access at a Case Conference (CC) without consent.

No lawyer would have advised of anything like you have described and if your lawyer did... time to find a new one.

I never agreed to supervised visits. It was imposed by the judge at the CC and when I objected to her position stating that there was no supervised access in my new house during this summer even if my criminal case was still pending, she (the judge) took the police report in her hands to show it before me and just told me that she clearly understood my ex's concerns. I did not consent but my lawyer said it was better than not seeing my kids at all. I was trying everything to see them during the Holidays... and still today, I haven't seen them anyway.

In a week will be my first motion and I am asking that my access be reinstated in my new home without supervision and with overnights. Note that my criminal record will finally be dismissed this week.

 

[Tayken]

I never agreed to supervised visits. It was imposed by the judge at the CC and when I objected to her position stating that there was no supervised access in my new house during this summer even if my criminal case was still pending, she (the judge) took the police report in her hands to show it before me and just told me that she clearly understood my ex's concerns. I did not consent but my lawyer said it was better than not seeing my kids at all. I was trying everything to see them during the Holidays... and still today, I haven't seen them anyway.

If you did not provide consent then they judge at a CC cannot make that order. Also, you should have a good lawyer who could have waved Shaw v Shaw back at the judge and similar case law. Or at least be familiar with this VERY COMMON jurisprudence and easily argued for a motion to be heard and for it to be a long motion and that both parties prepare books of authorities on the matter.

See this thread: http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f3/false-allegations-false-status-quo-shaw-v-shaw-cited-13457/

No excused anymore... Educate your lawyer if you have to! Never consent to something at a CC and drive matters to motion for determination. If you do consent to something don't complaint that the court system is biased because you made a decision to consent to something you state you didn't consent to...

In a week will be my first motion and I am asking that my access be reinstated in my new home without supervision and with overnights. Note that my criminal record will finally be dismissed this week.

Please repeat after me... I will read the link Tayken provided fully and any other links provided in the comments. I will educate my lawyer on the basics of Shaw v. Shaw and demand the lawyer follow my instruction to argue the matter in accordance with what has already been established in jurisprudence. If my lawyer is not willing to do this then I will see another lawyer who primarily practices in family law and understands what the norm is and actually knows how to search CanLII.


Here is the reference for Shaw v. Shaw: 2008 ONCJ 130 (CanLII)

Also read this one (para. 9 in particular): http://canlii.ca/t/gj3cm

Honestly, you didn't need to agree to how things typically went in 1988... As our prime minister has said: It is 2015 (now 2016). No reason you shouldn't have access - especially when your threat is against the other parent and not the children.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[LovingFather32]

Shaw Vs. Shaw is great caselaw.

Conferences are tricky when it comes to allegations of abuse and supervision.

The judge isn't there to analyze all the evidence to see if the abuse actually occurred. Therein lies the problem. Dad wants to see kid -->mom saying dad's an abuser --> judge has to err on side of caution.

I made the mistake Tayken is talking about by consenting to supervised as well. I HAD to see my daughter no matter what. I just couldn't wait any longer and I know D4 couldn't either.

I remember asking the judge (and I still have the transcripts) ..

"Your honor, I don't agree that I require supervision. I have a clean drug test, clean record, etc. I have never been involved with police in my entire life and and Ms. ___ has nothing to back up her claims[".

Didn't matter. The judge told me he had no choice but to er on the side of caution. I then asked "Is this the ONLY way I get to see my D4?" To which he replied....yes, unfortunately.

I did schedule a motion then...but I couldn't go another hour without seeing D4 .. which would have been in another few months awaiting the motion. No way I could do that.

The cool thing was the judge wrote on his endorsement..."Although I see no requirement of supervision, Mr. LF32 will have supervised visits from.....". I believe this was a message for the subsequent judge at the motion, who we all know slammed my ex fairly hard for her behavior.

It's such a tough situation if it's the only way the OP is allowing you to see your child.

 

[ninehundredt]

Submitting a motion tomorrow in hopes of getting an early March court date. I'm hoping to have some positive news to report once that's all said and done. By the way....why is LF32 banned? I've only been offline for a few days. Did I miss something?

 

[ninehundredt]

Had my motion heard today in hopes of modifying the interim order to allow for unsupervised access, or worst case enforce the supervised access at an exchange centre. I have been trying to get the exchange centre going, but my ex keeps creating delays with the process on her end. This time she made an allegation with FACS...conveniently, as the exchange centre refuses to take clients with any FACS involvement.

The same judge who threatened to take custody away from her 3 months ago refused to do anything until our OCL investigation is completed at the end of April. Not only that, but he clearly didn't read the file, and would not listen to anything my lawyer had to say.

It seriously felt like a bad tv movie where the judge is crooked and taking bribes. He completely ignored the evidence and case history, and made me out to be as bad as my ex. It was the most demoralizing court appearance I've ever had.

I'm basically stuck with intermittent visitation once a week for six hours until May when OCL is wrapped up...all depending on whether I can arrange for a friend to continue doing the exchanges. It still astonishes me that I can do all the right things and be as cooperative as possible, yet still get shafted by the family law system. I want to make a formal complaint against that judge, but I'm not certain whether it will do any good in the long run. It seems like we have no recourse in this system at all. We will definitely make sure the next court appearance is seen under a different judge...perhaps someone more 'honorable'. Pfff.

I'm convinced that even after the conclusion of the OCL investigation, my ex is going to continue to be disruptive in her quest to remove me from our children's lives. I cannot understand why she would not want them to have a father. It's mind boggling.

 

[PeacefulMoments]

I'm sorry for your bad day in court. I sincerely hope things improve and you are able to restore your relationship with the kids. I have no real constructive legal advice. Just try to keep the faith that it will get better.

 

[ninehundredt]

I'm sorry for your bad day in court. I sincerely hope things improve and you are able to restore your relationship with the kids. I have no real constructive legal advice. Just try to keep the faith that it will get better.

I appreciate the kind words. I believe that my lawyer has done an adequate job, and we have followed the legal process properly. It's just a run-in with an incompetent / lazy judge. I'm hopeful that with the conclusion of the OCL report we can have the case heard under someone more effective. I'm just tired.

 

[arabian]

Very frustrating for you.

Hope time goes by quickly.

 

[paco]

Had my motion heard today in hopes of modifying the interim order to allow for unsupervised access, or worst case enforce the supervised access at an exchange centre. I have been trying to get the exchange centre going, but my ex keeps creating delays with the process on her end. This time she made an allegation with FACS...conveniently, as the exchange centre refuses to take clients with any FACS involvement.

The same judge who threatened to take custody away from her 3 months ago refused to do anything until our OCL investigation is completed at the end of April. Not only that, but he clearly didn't read the file, and would not listen to anything my lawyer had to say.

It seriously felt like a bad tv movie where the judge is crooked and taking bribes. He completely ignored the evidence and case history, and made me out to be as bad as my ex. It was the most demoralizing court appearance I've ever had.

I'm basically stuck with intermittent visitation once a week for six hours until May when OCL is wrapped up...all depending on whether I can arrange for a friend to continue doing the exchanges. It still astonishes me that I can do all the right things and be as cooperative as possible, yet still get shafted by the family law system. I want to make a formal complaint against that judge, but I'm not certain whether it will do any good in the long run. It seems like we have no recourse in this system at all. We will definitely make sure the next court appearance is seen under a different judge...perhaps someone more 'honorable'. Pfff.

I'm convinced that even after the conclusion of the OCL investigation, my ex is going to continue to be disruptive in her quest to remove me from our children's lives. I cannot understand why she would not want them to have a father. It's mind boggling.

You're not the only one having hard time with their ex, mine wanted me in prison, completely all the way out from children's life, that far she went. My advice is to don't give up, ultimately this is what they want.

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[ninehundredt]

I decided to ditch my lawyer today, and will be filing the change in representation in the morning. Look's like I'll be heading into self rep land for the foreseeable future. I think I've had enough exposure to the process over the past couple of years of retaining a lawyer to hopefully be effective. Fingers crossed.

 

[paco]

I decided to ditch my lawyer today, and will be filing the change in representation in the morning. Look's like I'll be heading into self rep land for the foreseeable future. I think I've had enough exposure to the process over the past couple of years of retaining a lawyer to hopefully be effective. Fingers crossed.

May the Force be with you

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[ninehundredt]

May the Force be with you

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Thanks! It's been on the back of my mind for awhile. Ever since this case got stirred up again this past July, he hasn't been giving it 100%. I figure it's going to take me at least six more months to pay off my remaining balance with him. Live and learn.

 

[paco]

Thanks! It's been on the back of my mind for awhile. Ever since this case got stirred up again this past July, he hasn't been giving it 100%. I figure it's going to take me at least six more months to pay off my remaining balance with him. Live and learn.

Yeap...they're not cheap at all, even 'till now still sounds his advice in my ear: "...you should get a mortgage to have a great lawyer by your side...bla bla bla", and I ended up self represented, takes lots of time for sure, but who else knows better your case than you?
My advice to you is to make as many offers you can to the other party before you all enter the trial, after that only a judge dictates, and try to avoid trial as much as you can, it's a lottery.

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[ninehundredt]

Yeap...they're not cheap at all, even 'till now still sounds his advice in my ear: "...you should get a mortgage to have a great lawyer by your side...bla bla bla", and I ended up self represented, takes lots of time for sure, but who else knows better your case than you?
My advice to you is to make as many offers you can to the other party before you all enter the trial, after that only a judge dictates, and try to avoid trial as much as you can, it's a lottery.

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That's good advice. We had settled previously, so realistically all I'm trying to do is return to the previous arrangement at a minimum. This should not go to trial.

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[Links17]

Just do your homework, be diligent and treat it more seriously than your job. You can do it, I encourage everybody to self rep

 

[ninehundredt]

Just do your homework, be diligent and treat it more seriously than your job. You can do it, I encourage everybody to self rep

I'll see how it goes. I suppose the worst case scenario is that I lose time and eventually hire another attorney. I'll update the thread again soon with my progress.

 

[ninehundredt]

So I've drafted an offer to settle per Tayken's advice in hopes of getting the access rolling with the exchange centre. The more I look into the examples I'm seeing, it seems that these are normally served right before a motion, or for final settlement.

Since I am awaiting an OCL disclosure I'm not sure if this is the appropriate way to try getting the interim order updated. Is it ok to just make an offer to settle and only specify changes to the interim order, or should I be doing something different? My first week trying to self rep is nerve racking. I'm afraid I'm going to make some critical mistake.

 

[paco]

You should avoid supervised access, if you're using this centre just for transfer exchanges that's fine

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