Child support over payment

cashcow4ex

cashcow4ex

New member
My ex and I have been renegotiating our SA because of a change in residence with one of our children. This has been dragging on for almost 2/3rd's of a year and we aren't any closer to an amended agreement.


My question is, I had over payed child support for several months in 2017 & 2018 (we are talking close to $3,000) which my ex has stated that she was aware of the over-payments and that the money is sitting in an account waiting to give back to me. The original plan was she would make a full payment to me when the the amendments were done and agreed upon. The issue is, vacation time with the kids is coming up, money is tight and I could really use it. Do you see a problem if I make up that money by stopping CS payments until my money is re-couped?


FRO is not involved.
 
If you stop paying she can take anything you have as an order and register with FRO now. If you stop paying it makes you look bad through negotiation.

As much as the idea makes sense, don’t do it. It will only backfire.
 
Wasn't hoping for that answer lol.



Even if we both pay each other child support (she has one child and I have one child) and she has been paying her CS to me based on her net income because her employment is a home daycare? Meaning, for 8 months now she has been paying CS based on net income after deductions which is over 60% of her salary?


Man, even our polymer money can only stretch so far!
 
Generally speaking, unilaterally stopping CS payments is a bad idea.

If you are certain you will be getting the $3000 back at some point, then borrow the money from the bank. You can probably get the loan for 6% interest easily, or possibly better if you own a house and have a HELOC. Even if you take a year to pay it back, that only costs you about $200, which is not too much relative to the three grand.

If you cannot travel without the $3000, and you are not certain that you will get it back, then you have made a poor financial choice :).

But no, I would not cut CS without agreement from the recipient. And if she was agreeable, then you could probably just get your $3000 from her directly.
 
cashcow4ex said:
Wasn't hoping for that answer lol.



Even if we both pay each other child support (she has one child and I have one child) and she has been paying her CS to me based on her net income because her employment is a home daycare? Meaning, for 8 months now she has been paying CS based on net income after deductions which is over 60% of her salary?


Man, even our polymer money can only stretch so far!
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If she is paying you... how are you paying her? or are you paying her full CS and in turn she’s paying you back full CS?


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CoolGuy41 said:
Would you say this extends to set-off CS where the other side has not quite provided the financial disclosure ordered?
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There is relatively little case law for CS in shared parenting.


That said, your situation is entirely different. Piggybank knows what he has to pay, and is looking to not pay because it helps his situation. The case law is almost uniform on that, and it isn't goodl


In an offset CS arrangement, you need both incomes to determine payment amounts. If you don't know other income, then you cannot make a determination of payment. In your case, I would send a message to ex:


"Since you have not provided any income information yet, I will temporarily assume that your income is exactly equal to mine, resulting in a setoff CS level of zero dollars. I am willing to retroactively adjust this for 6 months."

You are not refusing to pay, you are just assuming information since ex has not provided it, and then you are paying the appropriate amount.
 
Berner_Faith said:
If she is paying you... how are you paying her? or are you paying her full CS and in turn she’s paying you back full CS?


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Correct, for tax dependent reasons I insisted that we each pay the full child support owing as she has one child and I have the other. I have been paying my full table amounts forever, however there was an overage payed to her by me from October 2017 to Feb 2018 as I didn't understand how to properly calculate offsetting support as this was new as of October 2017. I calculated it that I take what I would pay her for both kids, and minus it from what she would pay me for both kids. It wasn't until the end of February 2018 that a member on here informed me that its the same calculation except we only use 1 child.


She on the other hand has been paying me full table amounts on her net income which in most cases is 30% or more lower than minimum wage. The line 150 the Gov't website states to use for self employed is their full business income minus business deductions. As mentioned, last year she made $47,000 but is paying child support based on $18,000 which is her net income.
 
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Janus said:
There is relatively little case law for CS in shared parenting.


That said, your situation is entirely different. Piggybank knows what he has to pay, and is looking to not pay because it helps his situation. The case law is almost uniform on that, and it isn't goodl


In an offset CS arrangement, you need both incomes to determine payment amounts. If you don't know other income, then you cannot make a determination of payment. In your case, I would send a message to ex:


"Since you have not provided any income information yet, I will temporarily assume that your income is exactly equal to mine, resulting in a setoff CS level of zero dollars. I am willing to retroactively adjust this for 6 months."

You are not refusing to pay, you are just assuming information since ex has not provided it, and then you are paying the appropriate amount.
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I am not looking to pay less than table amounts. I am simply looking to get the overage I have payed her from October 2017 to Feb 2018 as it was you and Rockscan that both informed me that I was calculating it wrong.


My ex has provided me with her business tax info however the laws as far as calculating CS when self employed are more than a grey area. She thinks that every deduction allowed by CRA should also be removed for CS calculation purposes. It amounts to about 63% in deductions based on her tax return.


All I want is that extra money that was paid to her for the above time period as I was calculating the offset amount using both kids and not just one.
 
cashcow4ex said:
Correct, for tax dependent reasons I insisted that we each pay the full child support owing as she has one child and I have the other. I have been paying my full table amounts forever, however there was an overage payed to her by me from October 2017 to Feb 2018 as I didn't understand how to properly calculate offsetting support as this was new as of October 2017. I calculated it that I take what I would pay her for both kids, and minus it from what she would pay me for both kids. It wasn't until the end of February 2018 that a member on here informed me that its the same calculation except we only use 1 child.


She on the other hand has been paying me full table amounts on her net income which in most cases is 30% or more lower than minimum wage. The line 150 the Gov't website states to use for self employed is their full business income minus business deductions. As mentioned, last year she made $47,000 but is paying child support based on $18,000 which is her net income.
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Well if money is exchanging hands both ways then if you stop paying her she will stop paying you so really you are no further ahead. I honestly wouldn’t even expect that overpayment back but that’s just me...


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Berner_Faith said:
Well if money is exchanging hands both ways then if you stop paying her she will stop paying you so really you are no further ahead. I honestly wouldn’t even expect that overpayment back but that’s just me...


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My child support payment is over $1400 a month. I get from her under $160 a month.
 
Janus said:
There is relatively little case law for CS in shared parenting.


That said, your situation is entirely different. Piggybank knows what he has to pay, and is looking to not pay because it helps his situation. The case law is almost uniform on that, and it isn't goodl


In an offset CS arrangement, you need both incomes to determine payment amounts. If you don't know other income, then you cannot make a determination of payment. In your case, I would send a message to ex:


"Since you have not provided any income information yet, I will temporarily assume that your income is exactly equal to mine, resulting in a setoff CS level of zero dollars. I am willing to retroactively adjust this for 6 months."

You are not refusing to pay, you are just assuming information since ex has not provided it, and then you are paying the appropriate amount.
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I am piggy-backing on to this thread as you partially answered my question, but I want to know what the repercussions are. My ex refuses to produce her 2017 financials after I gave her mine. My income fluctuates and for 2017 is was substantially less than 2016 (but still higher than hers).

We have shared custody so her income factors into the new child support payments. I told her that I couldn't adjust it without her information, so i did not make the June payment. She has said that she is now going to file with FRO to enforce payment.

Any advise?
 
Not providing the June child support was a stupid move, IMHO. I understand she is withholding, which could bite her in the future, but you should have provided the usual June amount. I would attempt to pay her right away and bank the difference every month until disclosure is received. If your support went down, keep paying at the current rate (while attempting to get disclosure) and let her deal with possible arrears. My ex has never voluntarily provided his income information and I mean never. What a waste of money on lawyers. But it bit him this year as he did not disclose a significant raise. Our lawyers are currently each figuring out the total arrears owed. I will never understand why people won't provide their income information; they never "win."
 
anonymous said:
We have shared custody so her income factors into the new child support payments. I told her that I couldn't adjust it without her information, so i did not make the June payment. She has said that she is now going to file with FRO to enforce payment.

Any advise?
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Definitely file with FRO, that's what they are there for. Let them figure it out.
 
kate331 said:
Definitely file with FRO, that's what they are there for. Let them figure it out.
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Bit does FRO do annual adjustments or only enforce what’s in the order?

You should pay something for June... estimate her income and pay that amount... if it should be more she will provide disclosure... but not paying is not a good move but I certainly wouldn’t be paying the old amount if your income went down because you will never get it back.


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So if I estimate that she received a 3% increase over last year, and use my 2017 income as I have disclosed, then monthly off-set support would be $575 (down from $1,140). That's why she's pissed.

Even if I pay that, according to FRO, I am not paying the correct amount.

Leads me to my next question. Would it not be a simple 14B form to ask the court to compel her to produce the T4 and Notice of Assessment?
 
anonymous said:
So if I estimate that she received a 3% increase over last year, and use my 2017 income as I have disclosed, then monthly off-set support would be $575 (down from $1,140). That's why she's pissed.



Even if I pay that, according to FRO, I am not paying the correct amount.



Leads me to my next question. Would it not be a simple 14B form to ask the court to compel her to produce the T4 and Notice of Assessment?
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So this begs the question why your income was so much less... that’s a huge drop in income... my husbands income fluctuates since he is commission based but only by a few thousand which doesn’t create that drastic of a difference.

I was actually thinking of this the other day... for people who work trades or for OPG... some years there is mega overtime and other years there is no overtime and possibly a few weeks lay off... how do jobs like that factor in?


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I received an $80k bonus in the previous year. My base salary only changed by the typical 3%. I already told her in April 2017 in a letter to her lawyer that is was not going to be repeated.
 
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