Child Support Guidelines

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OnceBitten

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Hi everyone. Im wondering if someone... anyone has an answer for me? I went through divorce proceedings in 2005, at which time my (ex) Husband claimed his income and Child support for 3 children was determined from the 2005 child support guideline tables. My monthly child support amount has not been adjusted since then, (except to be decreased, when my oldest went to College). My question is this: am I locked in to the 2005 child support guideline amounts, or should they be adjusted when the guideline amounts are adjusted? I looked at 2009's guidelines and the amounts showing there are MUCH different than the amount I have been receiving.... I am very cinfused, as my ex has told me I am locked in to the 2005 amounts until my child support payments end..... please help! I can't afford a lawyer right now.... thankyou for you time and help, it is greatly appreciated!
 
What does your agreement state with respect to CS adjustments?

Also, if 2009 tables showed LESS, would you still be pursing a change? If not, then perhaps you should leave it alone.
 
You are NOT "locked in" for the 2005 rates. :rolleyes:

Even if your agreement stated that you are "locked in", (which I doubt), that would NOT hold water in court.

Child support is the RIGHT of the CHILD, and they are entitled to receive support at the level that commensurates their parents incomes.

By law, the child support payor is obligated to provide the recipient with his/her income tax return and notice or assessment and reassessment (if any), every year, in order to ensure that he/she is paying the amount that matches income.

However, if that information is not forthcoming, it becomes YOUR responsibility to seek it out.

Not only are you not "locked in"....you could apply to the courts for a retroactive increase since 2006.

Depending your ex husbands income, that could mean that he either owes you money, or you could owe him a rebate... you wont know until he gives you his financial disclosure. :confused:

He has to give it to you, but you have to request it in writing.

A retroactive adjustment usually starts from date that you asked for his financial information... however, if you have a valid reason why you haven't pursued an increase until now.... it is common for a Judge to go back 3 years.

You will have to file a Motion to Vary your existing court order. You can represent yourself, but you will have to do a lot of work.

There are tons of case law on Canlii.org, just search "retroactive"....

If you can negotiate an agreement with your ex, without involving the courts, that would be best.... consider mediation.

There shouldn't be any "court battle" in your situation. It is very straightforward. He must provide you with income disclosure, and you will get a new order for Child Support, there is nothing to "fight" about. The guidelines are very clear.

This site has a lot of great information, but beware of the jaded members... the information can be very biased.... if the men feel like you are attacking one of their "brothers", they can get nasty. ;)

Good luck!! :)
 
BTW... if your child is in college, and you are still maintaining a home for him/her (ie. he/she comes home in between semesters, holidays etc.), your child support shouldn't have been decreased...

The law allows for child support to continue past the age of majority as long as the child is enrolled in and attending an educational program on a full time basis.

Plus, your ex should be paying you his share of the section 7 expenses (tuition, books, fees, etc.) for your child, at a rate that is proportional to his income.

:)
 
representingself said:
....

This site has a lot of great information, but beware of the jaded members... the information can be very biased.... if the men feel like you are attacking one of their "brothers", they can get nasty. ;)

....
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LOL, thanks representingself for introducing the 'sisters' to this site with your unbiased and fair warnings.
 
Hey Bill,

I was not referring to anyone in particular.....
Just my personal experiences ;) True nonetheless...

That being said, your comment....???

"Also, if 2009 tables showed LESS, would you still be pursing a change? If not, then perhaps you should leave it alone. "

That was based on what?

If the NCP is making more money and lying about being "locked in"... why do you think that should just be "left alone"?

I would think that a fair and reasonable person would believe that if this particular CP wasn't being treated fairly, she should do something about it...


Truth is, from my experience, when some CP's, (male or female), ask questions on here about looking for more CS, SS, blah blah blah, they get blasted from the NCP's who are hurt, angry and frusterated, OR your question is completely IGNORED. :(

If you are a NCP and are getting screwed over for whatever reason, you get 10 immediate responses from others who are helpful, supportive, compassionate...:confused:

So maybe "brothers" was the wrong term, maybe I should have used something else... but I was speaking from MY personal experiences. :D
 
representingself said:
That being said, your comment....???

"Also, if 2009 tables showed LESS, would you still be pursing a change? If not, then perhaps you should leave it alone. "

That was based on what?

If the NCP is making more money and lying about being "locked in"... why do you think that should just be "left alone"?

I would think that a fair and reasonable person would believe that if this particular CP wasn't being treated fairly, she should do something about it...
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My point was simply that the world would be a better place for all of us here if the goal was to be fair - meaning that one should not have the goal of getting what is best for them, but rather the goal of implementing what they agreed to fairly. Remove the adversarial aspect of only following the agreement if it is your favour, and trying to change it when it is not. If the agreement didn't cover something, or unforseen events occur, then recognize that and add to the agreement, but otherwise honour it.

I find that some people give advice, not about how to properly calculate support payments, but rather on how to go about getting an increase in payments for posts from a CP, or a decrease payments for posts for NCPs, and to me that is a problem because it is dishonest view things that way and continues to erode the relationship between the parents, which mostly was at one point healthy and supportive.

So specifically, if you look to have support payments adjusted when it would be in your favour only, that takes away from any hope of having a peaceful existence post divorce, and for good reason.

If on the other hand you simply want something that is fair, regardless of the outcome being in your favour, that contributes to your relationship with your ex, and for good reason.

So a huge problem is that we pay lawyers (2 of them can be up to $800/hour representing both of you), to come up with agreements that are crap and don't deal with OBVIOUS events like the CS tables changing, or incomes changing, or kids living in residence while away at school, or remarriage, etc, etc, etc!!! What is the excuse for this from the most expensive professionals one will ever hire, that have done the same job over and over and over again, yet produce agreements that are so full of holes, they can't stand up to the most simplest of issues - NO excuse!!!!
 
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Representingself was wrong about CS not decreasing when a child is in college. IF the NCP is told to keep paying CS for an adult child (and that is an IF, it is NOT automatic) there USUALLY is a decrease in the CS amount paid. Each judge interprets the guidelines in their own way, but this is the typical result.
 
got2bkid said:
Each judge interprets the guidelines in their own way...
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How true (and ridiculously unfair) is that?! Been there, experienced it personally on 3 separate occasions.

The advice provided so far is pretty correct. You have the right to adjust child support yearly if the paying parent's income changes. If it's a small change, you can agree to ignore it to save yourself the hassles, but in my personal opinion, any change - big or small; less or more - should be accounted for. It's only fair... to everyone.
 
got2bkid is correct....

CS continuing when a child goes off to college is not automatic, unless already in your agreement. And it CAN be reduced to a lesser amount, or directed to the child him/herself... that is determined by the Judge. TONS of case law on Canlii.org

But it shouldn't have automatically been reduced by the CS payor. ;)

And there are DEFINITELY some snarky women on here too... :D

lol..... hahahahaha
 
Thanks very much for the replies, after reading them, I went back to my divorce/child support agreement, and picked through the legal babble as best I could.

Representingitself, your reply was especially helpful and I thank you for that. As you stated, I am not locked in, and even with the decrease because my son is now away at school (yes Bill, I DID persue that descrease) the amounts I have been receiving for the last few years have not been adjusted appropriately and my ex is now aware, as he claims he didn't "think to look" at the updated tables... however things have now been settled (I hope) and the appropriate changes will be made.

Thank you again for your replies!
 
That's great news..... It is really nice when the two parties can come to an agreement without having to get involved in the court system....
Good for you!!!! :D
 
representingself said:
BTW... if your child is in college, and you are still maintaining a home for him/her (ie. he/she comes home in between semesters, holidays etc.), your child support shouldn't have been decreased...


What happens when the child is past the age of majority and attending, half heartedly, and mostly failing, the courses in high school. What if my 18 year old does not even have half the credits to graduate? Do I need to continue paying until she does? At 20, 25, 35? Who knows when?

And all this considering the fact that during our last CS case I attempted to intervene in our child's schooling and asked for custody over schooling...not physical custody, mind you...and the judge refused. The judge advised me my ex was doing a great job, despite the fact that my 16 year old had only completed and passed 4 high school courses, all at the basic level. So what do I do?

She turns 18 in less than two years, her attendance has been even worst than before our CS case, ex told me she was happy when our child turned 16 because the school would no longer harrass and bother her, send social workers to her house, regarding attendance. Past 16 kids can just drop away, no one cares. Prior to our child turning 16,. the ex lost custody, I don't know how she regained it...she is a truly horrible mother. Certainly not overtly abusive, but someone who used children to gain monetary gain from gov't, ie. CTB., welfare, etc. from her children, including the one I fathered.

So what do I do? I can't afford to go back to court, our previous case put me in the hole, in terms of credit card debt, upwards of 15k...and that's just for case conferances...because she was represented by a legal aid lawyer, one which did not cost her a penny, she delayed court proceedings for two years. She had a gov't paid lawyer despite the fact that she has more disposible income than I do. She owns her own buisness and it does quite well...but not on the books.
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Hello Mark.......;)

The bad news is that even if your child isn't attending classes regularily right now, she is only 16 and you are definitely on the hook for child support until she is 18, (at least), as long as she lives with her mother.

Basically, CS can continue after the child reaches the age of majority as long as the child is in a full time educational program, and until the child is completed her first diploma/degree.

If she continues high school past 18 on a full time basis, and remains at your ex's house, you will have to continue paying CS.

If she completes highshcool at 20, still lives at home, and then goes to college, you will most likely have to continue paying CS through college.

I don't think there is a timeline or cut off date..... I have read some case law where the child gets halfway through a diploma program, changes their mind and starts a new program, and the NCP keeps on shelling out the bucks. :eek:

But, if you daughter doesn't get her act together, college wont be an option, and you wont have to pay CS after she has finished her grade 12.

If she moves out of your ex's house and is not attending school, immediately file a Motion to Vary, as your daughter would no longer be considered a "child of the marriage", and therefore your ex wold be no longer entitled to support.

You might want to consider getting your daughter some counselling, there may be underlying reasons why she is refusing to go to school. Also contact your local school board and sick a truancy officer on her little behind. :)

In Ontario, a child cannot get her driver's licence if she is not attending school. A business can be fined if a person under the age of 18 is "working" during school hours, and I also believe that it is illegal for a child under the age of 18 to be truant.
 
representingself said:
Hello Mark.......;)
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representingself said:
The bad news is that even if your child isn't attending classes regularily right now, she is only 16 and you are definitely on the hook for child support until she is 18, (at least), as long as she lives with her mother.

Basically, CS can continue after the child reaches the age of majority as long as the child is in a full time educational program, and until the child is completed her first diploma/degree.

If she continues high school past 18 on a full time basis, and remains at your ex's house, you will have to continue paying CS.



Thanks for your quick response representingself, you've told me everything I've already feared. My daughter has not attended HS full-time since her first year, no doubt by the time she is supposed to be graduating she will need to stay for an extra few years to get her credits. I don't doubt that she will not be able to go to school full time after having goofed off and missed at least half the school year for her first four years.

The funny thing is, when I asked the judge during our CS case for custody of her education the judge called me a deadbeat...in other words, of course, while praising her mother. The same mother who lost custody of her daughter a few months after our case was over. I did get the right to all of my daughter's education and medical info. in our support order but the mother has refused to supply me with any information. In fact, she advised me to go back to court and refuses to talk to anyone but my lawyer because she knows I can't go back to court until I pay off what I already owe via credit card debt for the first case.

I'm frustrated and angry. I do feel the law does not work in favour of the non-custodial parent and unless you can afford about 60K in legal fees you're out of luck. Right now my daughter is back at home with her mother, supervised by the same social worker who had taken her out of her mother's care, on a probationary basis. When she was out of her mother's custody I attempted to have the child support rerouted to the foster parents and was told, go back to court, the mother receives the money as long as the order is in place. When I asked the mother what she was doing to contribute to the support of her daughter now that she was no longer in her care, she very bitterly told me that she had given up her CTB, WHAT? My CS was still going to her and all she did was give up money that most people aren't entitled to anyway because they work and support their kids rather than rely on welfare and gov't hand outs. My wife and I work, we have one child, we pay taxes and our CTB is a very low two digit number because we make too much money. My ex works under the table, receives welfare and lives in pulic housing, receives a fairly large CS from me which is non-taxable (and occassional support from two of her other children's fathers) and her CTB surpasses my wife's after tax income minus our daycare expenses.

My daughther has had years of counselling, it is ongoing. She is supervised by catholic children's aid and all I do is pay my CS. I have no rights, in fact, not even the right to move on because I do have a new family. I have a wife and one chlld who is getting older every year and we just can't afford to have another one, not because of the CS, but because of lawyer's fees etc. because of the issues we had with my ex. My current wife is desperate for a child but we are realistic and would never go ahead and just do it and hope the gov't is there in case we can't afford it. In our first CS case my ex stated that I had no contact with our child and provided no money all the while she was lving below the poverty level and, of course, having more kids with men who already had them and weren't supporting hers. This was easily disproven because I often gave her money with a paper trail, yet I still looked like a deadbeat in court and she was Mother Theresa. Despite the fact that all of her lies were disproven during our three case conferences in the first CS case, the judge still sided with her...I don't understand that kind of logic.
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