Challenging the OCL report

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

WorkingDAD

Active member
Here we go...

After 9 month of waiting and waiting I finally got OCL report what to be honest is quite disappointing. I had big hopes for it but looks like that was another my mistake.

So basically what report said.
Custody - mother. Visitation father.

Reason?
Too much conflict between parent. So custody to mum.

On a good side report confirm that father and mother love and care about their son and there is not question about fathers parenting abilities...

So basically nothing wrong with father but custody to her... Just because too much conflict she has to have custody.

I do not understand how the hell it can be. Person make conflict by taking your son away filling application to court, putting all those liyes and because of that she has to have custody?

Anyone can explain how with sound mind person can come to such conclusion?

So I thinking still go to court and try convinse judge that conflict only can be reduced that both parents have equal rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES. That kid need not visitor but father...

Anyone willing to share their experience challenge OCL recommendations?
 
Search the forum for Office of the Children's Lawyer. There's lots of stuff to read.

Basically you have a very uphill battle ahead of you.

The OCL recommendations are ordered in about 80% of cases.
 
Then look up things like "parallel parenting". OCL report can be challenged, but is difficult to do. Run a search in canlii.org for your assessor to see if this is a common pattern for her regarding the recommendations. Then see if anyone was able to successfully challenge and how they did so.
 
thank you for advice.
That actually first thing what I did when I got name of investigator. To my surprice his last name nowhere to be found on CanLii in relation to family court...

Make me thinking thou. Is he complete new or never been challenged?
 
My OCL report details the alienation that my ex is doing, and the fact that she is causing the conflict and yet they want soul custody to my ex and visitation to me. I know of 3 other guys with the same thing, in the face of conflicted parents, does not matter why there is conflict but they will give a blanket idea of every second weekend and 1 midweek night.
 
Well
I understand that chances are 50/50 but I believe I have to try. At least when little one getting older and start asking questions and ask me "Daddy why you gave up and agree with some stranger that I have to live only with mum" I will have to tell him that I tried to best of my abilities...
 
From what I have heard, judges do not "rubber stamp" OCL reports, and while they do take them into consideration they are not something that the judge will use to completely decide what is going on. If it is as you say, then just don't agree with the recommendations and try and research as to why the recommendations are not correct, based on the observations. That is what I am doing at least, hope it helps you.
 
Thanks.
That what I thought and hope to. I believe there is only reason why OCL base his recommendation on that it's that he believes that Joint custody work only when there is not conflict between parent. When I believe that Joint Custody with Parallel parenting is very appropriate in conflict situation. So I am collecting case law what confirm my position.

Recent case law suggests that joint custody, together with a parallel parenting model, may be a viable option in high conflict cases. The Ontario Court of Appeal decision in Ursic v. Ursic together with subsequent cases revives the notion of Parallel Parenting in high conflict cases.


In Ontario, parallel parenting has been ordered in high conflict cases where both parties are capable parents and should have an active role in the upbringing of their child or children and where there is potential for one parent to abuse an order for sole custody

In Andrade v. Kennelly, Justice Harvison – Young ordered joint custody and parallel parenting in a high conflict case. The Wife had hostile feelings about the Husband, alleging him to be a sociopath and demanding that he only have supervised access.


I actually prepared document and send it to OCL but looks like he do not believe in Joint custody.
Keep in touch. May be we can exchange some info.
 
fireweb13 said:
I know of 3 other guys with the same thing, in the face of conflicted parents, does not matter why there is conflict but they will give a blanket idea of every second weekend and 1 midweek night.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. They recommended sole custody for me and that's what happened.

fireweb13 said:
From what I have heard, judges do not "rubber stamp" OCL reports, and while they do take them into consideration they are not something that the judge will use to completely decide what is going on. If it is as you say, then just don't agree with the recommendations and try and research as to why the recommendations are not correct, based on the observations. That is what I am doing at least, hope it helps you.
Click to expand...

I have it on good authority from a number of OCL investigators that I have spoken with off the record that the court orders their recommnedations 80% of the time.
 
Were the kids with you at that time mainly or with your ex?

(just trying to figure out my chances weighting what I read on canlii and here. It's a complete mess, it looks like judges throwing cubes when they make an order, or maybe there is some correlation)

Thanks!
 
With my situation, my ex actually chose NOT to participate, which essentially made things a lock as far as the report was concerned.

(Whereas I cooperated fully).

Currently we have "joint legal" custody, though residential care and control is with me. She gets EOW.
 
WorkingDAD said:
Here we go...

After 9 month of waiting and waiting I finally got OCL report what to be honest is quite disappointing. I had big hopes for it but looks like that was another my mistake.

So basically what report said.
Custody - mother. Visitation father.

Reason?
Too much conflict between parent. So custody to mum.

On a good side report confirm that father and mother love and care about their son and there is not question about fathers parenting abilities...

So basically nothing wrong with father but custody to her... Just because too much conflict she has to have custody.

I do not understand how the hell it can be. Person make conflict by taking your son away filling application to court, putting all those liyes and because of that she has to have custody?

Anyone can explain how with sound mind person can come to such conclusion?

So I thinking still go to court and try convinse judge that conflict only can be reduced that both parents have equal rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES. That kid need not visitor but father...

Anyone willing to share their experience challenge OCL recommendations?
Click to expand...

In my case there was an Ocl. ..went in my favor for joint custody and equal access. Even though there was conflict...recommendations for parallel parenting...judge ignored Ocl...all to mom I get every second weekend one night through the week and a big child support bill to pay....oh and her court costs...the system is biased towards men...if that Ocl was in favor of mom there is no way in hell that the judge would ignore it....just face it dads are little more than a paycheck to moms plain and simple...its not about what's right its about making someone pay...and in the vast majority of the case..its dad.

Even armed with an Ocl that this woman spent many hours and days between house holds...judge with no qualifcations. ..no phd. ..over rides that report and flushed down the toilet...11 months and thousands of dollars.

My judge...Lynch was either asleep at the wheel or biased....maybe incompetent. ..or all three...the end result is tragic...and fathers across our Country are being discriminated against on a daily basis really unless you have endless amounts of money....or mom has needles sticking out of her arm...we're basically screwed as a father...and treated little more than a visitor..that has ro pay his toll to see his toll children.
 
rszalai said:
Were the kids with you at that time mainly or with your ex?

(just trying to figure out my chances weighting what I read on canlii and here. It's a complete mess, it looks like judges throwing cubes when they make an order, or maybe there is some correlation)

Thanks!
Click to expand...

dtte his case is not the norm no matter what he tries tell you...if you don't win...as far as he is concerned you didn't do enough to win....if his was the norm my guess is that there wouldn't be all of us dads in here with the same stories and outcomes.....are there success stories...yes there are....but don't let their success stories pull you down into thinking that you dis not win because it was something you did...not to win your case...in fact when you're battling an already biased system it makes it that much harder to win the race when you leg is chained to the starting gate....one poster said it right...he will explain to his child that he did all he could do....i would go one step further and explain to the child it was mom who would let dad see them more.....courts do not have to happen....outrageous crippling child support does not have to happen...if one paren't chooses to abuse or use the system then that is their choice...

The thing is when take away money from dad and give it to mom..when the children are with you...then are you not taking the money away from the children? I can see cs if moms not working or income significantly lower than dad...but what about when mom makes as much as or greater than dad...and really mom is getting the children one day week more than dad...and still ordered to pay full guidelines....how is that helping the children?

The system is biased...and broken...and outdated, us fathers need to fix it...because until it really affects woman in negative way...not just the odd woman whom pays (and believe me they cry when they pay) us dads will continue to be paychecks not only in the eyes of the courts but to moms as well....what are we Teaching our children?.......sorry for the rant....little off topic..
 
OCL recommended parallel parenting in our case in order to solve the conflict issue. It is a viable option and they do recommend it.

So if they recommended sole to mom then there should be reasons stated why. see if those reasons are valid. "conflict" does not rule out parallel parenting, but certain types of conflict should (abuse, alienation, threats etc).
 
billiechic said:
OCL recommended parallel parenting in our case in order to solve the conflict issue. It is a viable option and they do recommend it.

So if they recommended sole to mom then there should be reasons stated why. see if those reasons are valid. "conflict" does not rule out parallel parenting, but certain types of conflict should (abuse, alienation, threats etc).
Click to expand...

Background: 2005 Kaplinsky v Kaplinsky case established the principal that if there is no DEMONSTRATED cooperation between parents, then sole custody will go to primary caregiver (who is mom in 95%?? of cases). There seems to be a recent retreat from this principal, so it's not hopeless, but still an uphill battle. Parallell parenting, with a VERY detailed plan (leaving NOTHING open to interpretation) is one of the solutions being used.

I'd guess you would need to force answers to questions about why parallel parenting WON'T work. i.e. try to turn the burden of proof around so that you are not the one having to prove why it WILL work.

You have to be OK with splitting the decisions areas e.g. education to YOU, medical to your EX. Someone here posted that education is more important, because it means that kids will go to school in YOUR area, which decreases likelihood of ex moving away with the kids.
 
Last edited:
dinkyface said:
You have to be OK with splitting the decisions areas e.g. education to YOU, medical to your EX. Someone here posted that education is more important, because it means that kids will go to school in YOUR area, which decreases likelihood of ex moving away with the kids.
Click to expand...

Yea... today's conversation with ex...
M: parallel parenting will not work.
F: why?
M: we can not even decide who will cover what.
F: I though it obvious. I do education and medical or dental. You religion and dental or medical.
M: Why you education and I religion. Why not you religion.
F: Well first because you are already baptized him without my consent and even knowledge. Because I value education more than you and truly believe that person should do something in this word and no to leave of others but help thous who really deserve it.
You think that it's ok to sit on welfare and plan to do it as long as it exists.
I also have university degree. I on my own from 17 years old and I never even tried once to smoke or drink I am not even talking about drugs...
M: But I have two diplomas and you only one ...
F: But I have diploma and working from 2second year in university .... And I believe I contribute to your diplomas two years of my life helping you in every area I could... Or not?
M: Yea you did but I would have it even without you ...
*********************************************************

Oh another one:
M: you will have overnight if agree for temporary custody.
F: I can not agree even for temp custody - it will not help me in court if we end up there what is huge possibilities.
M: but it is just temporary
F: I have better idea lets sign temporary "joint custody".
M: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
F: Why? It''s just temporary and it is not sole like you asking
M: out of arguments...
***********************************************************



Sometimes I just want start walk and till I drop dead and that all...

and so on....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top