Case Conference June 8th CS/SS/Section 7 and Mobility

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PhoenixRising

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Case Conference
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New here and in need of some support and feedback. Currently life seems to be at a standstill leading up to our Case Conference and Motion set on the same day. My ex and I are worlds apart as far as the issues.
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General background:
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Been together for 3 years and have a son together who is 2 and we separated in February of this year. Over the course of the last year and a half I have looked for gainful employment in my field of education but given the economics of the area I reside in jobs are really scarce, forestry is the main industry, need I say more. The town is basically turning into a retail sector economy with no industry.
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Over the course of the last 8 or so months before separating from my partner, we were never married I started to look outside of my local economy and see what other options in the country are available so the idea was never regarded as being new to him. Having seen a job fair related article regarding the availability of many jobs in Saskatchewan I began to look at this as an option. He was open to the idea provided that I asserted that we would be together as a family. That obviously has not worked out since I left the residence in February. I have only worked part-time since my son was born and previous to this I was being educated.
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We had a cordial relationship up until I decided to travel to Saskatchewan to seek out accommodations and the local economy. He was informed that I would be travelling with our son and I was in contact with him during the trip. When I returned he had already sought out a order preventing me from leaving the district and at the time requested a shared parenting regime which was not the status quo.
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My Brief
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<!--[if !supportLists]-->1.<!--[endif]-->Sole custody of our son reflecting the defacto situation as the primary caregiver
<!--[if !supportLists]-->2.<!--[endif]-->Child Support
<!--[if !supportLists]-->3.<!--[endif]-->Spousal Support as I only work approx. 9 hours per week as caregiver
<!--[if !supportLists]-->4.<!--[endif]-->Section 7 Expenses pertaining to daycare costs for our son
<!--[if !supportLists]-->5.<!--[endif]-->Mobility to move to seek out employment in an area that is abundant at this time
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His Brief
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<!--[if !supportLists]-->1.<!--[endif]-->Joint custody with him being named the primary with no request for child support
<!--[if !supportLists]-->2.<!--[endif]-->Claims that have failed to use my education and even turn down a job. (I have evidence to show all the jobs I applied for in the last year if not more)
<!--[if !supportLists]-->3.<!--[endif]-->I left the province without his permission or notice (I have email correspondence to the contrary)

Previous to this he filed affidavits that were quite scornful and even called CAS on me. Totally unfounded. I filed my own affidavit stating the truth and the reasoning behind my requests.<o>
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I am really unsure as to how this will turn out. It really is sad because I did try and work through things with him and reason with him on the issue of employment. I know he brought this about because he really did not think that I would look for work outside of this area and take our son with me. We even had a conversation regarding the purchase of a webcam so that he could talk with our son. I don’t think he thought I was serious but there really are no other options for employment in this area other than minimum wage paying jobs. In December I was offered a job as a Legal Assistant in Saskatchewan but turned it down because the employer was requesting a three week turn around.
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I really don’t know how this will turn out but any advice on preparing for this case would be helpful. I am prepared to bring with me to the case conference any information that disqualifies his claims against me.
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Thank you in advance.
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PhoenixRising
 
PhoenixRising,

He wants shared custody and that is his right to decide, not yours.

Your personal desire to move for a better job is trumped by his rights to be a parent. I don't see how your view of the status quo is realistic for a 2 year old that needs both parents for the next 16 years, and lived with them for most of the first 2.

I hope you reconsider the right of both your son and his father to be together as parent/son. The fact that you mention a webcam as some sort of acceptable replacement for shared custody would be humorous if it was not such a serious matter.

You are tied together by this child for the next 16 years - that is just the way it is. If you want to move and give up custody so you can work and support your son while he is raised by his father, I suppose that you have that right, but you don't morally have a right to fight to separate your son and his dad.

If you let things settle, perhaps you can both decide to move to a larger area, and both get jobs that are satifactory - I think he should consider this as compromise is necessary for the shared raising of your son to work, which is as they say 'in the best interests of the child'. Children separated from their parents very often have significant issue with that separation so why even consider it (not that you have right to IMHO...)?
 
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I'm currently in a similar situation, I have applied for school to go into the field I always wanted to go into. This program is not offered in the area. If I were to stay here I would also be working minimum wage for the rest of my life, especially with the way the conomy is going these days. I'm tired of hearing about men and equal rights...yes I do understand, but why do we as women have to suffer to provide for our children so that he may have more access?

I had even proposed he move as well to be close to the children. For him it is a power trip...it is the only way to hurt...I'm not sure of our situation if he was an involved father or not...Mine was not up until the split. As women it is our job to raise these children, work , maintain a household...The best interest of the child/children are what is most important. It is also important that as a mother we are able to provide for our offspring is that not also what's in the best interest of the child? Why can't the ex make some allowances and try to move as well?Have you proposed this as an option?
 
CBella said:
...I'm tired of hearing about men and equal rights...
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Tired of hearing about equal rights?!?! What a chauvinistic, self centered statement CBella!

If you were referring to my post as being male centered, I assure you that my opinion is gender neutral and I think the parents of a child have equal rights, and unless one parent is legally not a fit parent, they both must be considered to have equal custody of a child. To take that right away should as difficult as it would be to take it away from a single or married parent. Job availability and career has no place in that decision, not even close.
 
billm said:
PhoenixRising,

He wants shared custody and that is his right to decide, not yours.
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He actually asks for both.


billm said:
Your personal desire to move for a better job is trumped by his rights to be a parent. I don't see how your view of the status quo is realistic for a 2 year old that needs both parents for the next 16 years, and lived with them for most of the first 2.
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I realize that our child needs both parents. I have already been through this once before with my daughter where her father lived out of town. As far as the status quo I refer to myself as the primary caregiver throughout our sons life, having only worked part-time while my ex worked full-time. I had to work part-time to put food on the table otherwise my ex's income would not have been sufficient to provide for everything.

Anyone would have a desire for a better job if what was currently available amounted to approx. 9 hours per week at minimum wage. I have been applying for jobs for the last 2 years without success. I obtained my degree in order to achieve success. But when the only industry in this area has died, that being forestry there are hundreds if not thousands out of work. Any job applied for has a least 50 or more applicants. In Goertz vs Gordon the mother was allowed to move from Canada to Australia to go to school. Not much different than looking for a job in that I obtained my education to enable myself to obtain gainful employment. I know the court will always look at what is in the best interest of the child. It has taken me months to consider this option and my ex always been aware of my thoughts in this regards.


billm said:
I hope you reconsider the right of both your son and his father to be together as parent/son. The fact that you mention a webcam as some sort of acceptable replacement for shared custody would be humorous if it was not such a serious matter.
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The topic of webcam was brought up by my ex when we had previous conversations about the possibility of a move by myself. It is no laughing matter of course but the courts have ordered this as an aide when parents have been allowed to relocate.

billm said:
You are tied together by this child for the next 16 years - that is just the way it is. If you want to move and give up custody so you can work and support your son while he is raised by his father, I suppose that you have that right, but you don't morally have a right to fight to separate your son and his dad.
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That is why the issue is to be addressed in court.

billm said:
If you let things settle, perhaps you can both decide to move to a larger area, and both get jobs that are satifactory - I think he should consider this as compromise is necessary for the shared raising of your son to work, which is as they say 'in the best interests of the child'. Children separated from their parents very often have significant issue with that separation so why even consider it (not that you have right to IMHO...)?
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This would have been the plan if I asserted that we would remain together as a couple. I have always been open and honest with him and up until now I have shared all my thoughts with him. Regardless it is in the courts hand at the moment and I have to trust that the court will put the best interest of our son first and foremost. Then we move on from there.
 
billm said:
Job availability and career has no place in that decision, not even close.
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This may be your opinion and we are all entitled to our own opinion.

But when someone has explored all other options to remain where they are and have so far been unsuccessful at obtaining such they do have merit. Together we applied for subsidized daycare so that I may work more than what I currently do as such no spaces are available to us. We also applied for subsidized housing because the situation we did exist in we increasing relied on credit to get us through. This was not way to continue living. If I do remain here I am in need of assistance and that is the bottom line. I would prefer not to be on the public's purse as I have never relied on it before. But the fact is that I need a job and I don't see myself able to obtain anything more in the foreseeable future. There are far too many people out of work in this area.
 
I would guess that the best solution would be for both parents to recognize that a move is necessary all things considered and as such one parent may move against their best personal interests and the childs (in their opinion) for the overall good of all involved.

If they decline to be cooperative in this matter it seems reasonable that a court could make the decision that moving is required and then take input from both parents to choose the best possible location for the child and the parents. Continuation of access for a parent would be dependent on them moving - basically binding arbitration for both parents if they can't agree to move or where to move to. Forcing one parent to the limited choice of staying where they are and giving up access OR moving to where the other parent chooses I don't think is fair - though the move may have to be essentially 'forced' (to retain access), the location should not be without due consideration to both parents and the child. This seems like a solution that gives equal rights to both parents.

The default, and significant onus on it, should be to remain where the child was being raised while the parents were together, despite in some cases significantly better opportuniities for one parent in another location - aka 'you made your bed, now you must lie in it'.
 
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I would not be pursuing this if I felt I had any other choice. My friends and family know how hard I have tried to be successful where I live but so far it has not been forthcoming. They have been through all my ups and downs. Even my current co-workers have been privy to my attempts at obtaining new employment and my struggles to obtain such. At times they were my sounding board in coming to my decision. This has been very difficult and they do understand why I need to do this. And they too support my decision.

Where I live some even say that I am lucky to have this job and sometimes I really do believe this to be true. There is not much happening to stimulate this economy since no one in the political arena can agree on which way to proceed. Maybe one day they will figure it out, but in the meantime Jack Layton continues his round table discussion so hopefully we'll have an answer in the next decade.

On a side note, in order to supplement my income I have drastically increased my usage of coupons and always look for the items on sale. Many companies provide free product coupon when you provide feedback on their products.
 
I too am in a similar situation. If I stay where I am, no work. I have an excellent job offer somewhere else and am just starting court proceedings this week to be able to move.

My ex was not involved in our daughters life until we divorced. He is still not really involved, just likes control.

I would wish you luck and make a strong case for your child and yourself, that your move and work are in the best interest of the child. It is not the right of the parent....it is the right of the child to know both parents. Your child deserves to live and be fed and be afforded a lifestyle they are currently accustomed too. And if you are stuck in the same place, with no choice of career, unemployed...well this is where I am too...and hoping the court has an intelligent judge. Perhaps you could try to work out visitation suggestions, maximizing the child's time with the other parent....so you are trying to keep up their relationship.

Can your ex move too? Even put that in the court papers. I am trying it, as my ex could move if he wanted to be closer to his child. I have even offered helping with travel costs for my ex.

My intention is not to sep. daughter and father, it is to be able to live.
And your intention looks to be the same, not to sep. father and child (son) but to be able to live and provide for your child.

It is unfortunate that we have to jump through hoops to be allowed to provide for our children.

Good luck with your situation, I hope it works out for you and your child!!
 
Only 6 days left until my case conference and motion and as it has been over the last few weeks I find myself again soul searching.

Aside from the economic benefits to myself requesting to locate to another province with our son in pursuit of employment. The fact of the matter is I may not have employment there yet but the possibilities are great, and I do not have full-time employment where I am either. My current residence is only available for the next 3 months and then I am unsure where we will be living. I am even more secure in my resolve that a relocation is in our son's best interest and I will tell you why.

Continued in the next post....
 
Benefits today and for tomorrow if I am permitted to move with our son.

Daycare

An environment that is suitable for socialization with children his own age on a daily basis. He'll be starting school next year.

Schooling

There are 3 local schools to choose from in the neighbourhood that I have chosen to live in and the daycare is nearby.

Activities as he grows.

- Extensive Zoo with a multitude of programming geared to children and parents alike.

-Comprehensive Museums illustrating the breath and diversity of geological and biological sciences.

-2 race tracks located nearby for racing fans. One is even sanctioning NASCAR type events.

-many local events geared towards children.

Diverse economic environment stimulates the economy

-Mining, manufacturing, agriculture, life sciences, oil and gas, energy, and transportation and logistics and life sciences.

Progressive and Proactive towards the environment

Post Secondary Education

-University houses six life sciences colleges: Agriculture, Dentistry, Medicine, Nursing, Pharmacy & Nutrition, and Veterinary Medicine, as well as a major teaching hospital on the same campus. There is also the College of Law. As well as business orientated programming
-An Institute of Applied Arts and Technology also exists.
-this could virtually eliminate the need for him to search out other universities or college to attend programming.

Continued next post...
 
Much of what I stated about vastly outweighs outweigh what exists in the city we currently live in. And simply economics tells me that the situation here will not improve anytime soon. Aside from retail, health care and the education sector that is left in this local economy. There is no draw for manufacturing or new industry in this current area.

Some of you many or not agree with me but I have given this much thought and that is why I request mobility. I wish I was not in this position but there is no other choice.

Share your thoughts.
 
Why is it that a romance with someone in another location in regards to mobility rights has more bearing on the case?

Basically, I am being told that a better job and better future job prospects is not sufficient enough. When better pay, child care options, and a housing subsidy if needed exists in the new location.
 
Latest discussion with EX.

Apparently if the court orders section 7 expenses which they should. Ie. Daycare in the discussion we had he is going to quit his job and work at Walmart because the split would be 73/27 based on our incomes. Pretty sad that it has come to this and like that is going to be helpful moving forward.

He lives in this little fantasy that when his mother passes away that he is somehow entitled to come into a large amount of wealth to which he will taken care of the rest of his life. Not likely in my opinion, I think his mother is too smart for that and has a different plan for an inheritance. Perhaps even a trust for her grandchildren's education.

Anyways just venting a little as the days becoming more and more absurd.
 
Children who have 2 loving parents should not lose one parent, just because of a divorce and a move. It wasn't the childs decision for you two to split up, it was your choice. Yes, things are hard for you now, and you feel it would be best for the child if you moved, but you'd be taking away the childs chance at a decent stable relationship with his dad. Nothing is worth that. Distance and time away make relationships fade, it's just a fact of life.
 
"Distance and time away make relationships fade, it's just a fact of life."

This is so true. Some thing for eveyone to consider in those tough decision making times.
 
I can agree with you on the fact that a child needs both parents and a child needs both parents to be able to provide for them. However, simple economics is of great concern in this situation.

Do we not have enough children living in poverty in this country? I have grave concern for those who think that a family of 5 can sustain themselves on $30,000 dollars a year. He continues to accrue debt as do I at an enormous rate. When we fall short of the family needs we accrue more debt in order to provide for basic needs. How much longer is a person to continue to do this? This was one of the largest underlying causes of our relationship break-down. I spent the entire time looking for full-time work in my field of education.

The fact of the matter is that where we live it happens to be the black hole of the country. Thousands of people have been laid off here and the hinterlands are teetering on collapse.

No one here thinks of me when they post. Always blame the person requesting the relocation because to some it is morally wrong. Well 100 and some odd years ago it was NOT morally wrong for a windowed male to remarry a wife within months of another wife's death. It was survival. He needed someone to care for the children. Today that would be extremely frowned upon.

Do people not think that I may be alone and afraid and not know anyone in the new location? But I will deal with it because I have to. Where we live it has been my home all my life and will always be my home. Do you not think that I have not tried to figure out any other way?

If someone knows by all means point me in the right direction! I have even gone so far as contemplating standing on the main thoroughfair with a sign, "desperately seeking full-time employment to provide for my family." I refrain from doing so because do not wish to embarrass my children, family, friends, and myself.

Currently I am caught between the cross hairs of societies rules. Only if I am an EI recipient do I qualify for any additional training or training allowances. If I quit my part-time job I am EI ineligible so that does not work. Social housing is out since in this province it is only available to specified units none of which exist at this time. There are no subsidized daycare spots available to help low income families in this area and the ex is refusing to pay. And to top it all off I am homeless in a month and a half.

If you could only walk in my shoes you would see that this is the only option at this time. For all of us, child, mom and dad.
 
Well you have obviously thought about it alot and have some very valid points.

My perspective is different, as my husbands ex-wife moved clear accross the country for no good reason. She even quit a good job and didn't work full time for 7 years or so (I've lost track of the #....). I have seen how damaging this is to my husband and how the relationship with his kids has suffered even though he tries his best to still be there for them..........he is not.

I am also very resentful that she complains constantly to her ex how hard it is to be a single mom. I have no doubt it is hard for her, she has no family to support her, and it took her years to even make 1 friend. But complaing to my husband about this is like stabbing him in the heart - she didn't HAVE to be a single mom, it was her CHOICE. She could have stayed where we all live, and could have given him 50% custody. That way, she'd have support (him and more family), she'd have more time to work, more flexibility, the costs of having the kids would be 50% lower, there's more free time and best of all, the kids would grow up with mom and dad in their lives.

I just caution you the grass is not always greener, and there will be a lot of downsides to moving so far away, without support from the dad or family. I would suggest to think about 50/50 custody with the father. If this doesn't work for you, for whatever reason, then you have probably made the best decision in your situation. I just wanted to throw it out there for you to consider (if you haven't already).
 
Update:

King Solomon was a very wise man. He recognized that only the true mother would sacrifice all in order for her child to live. It was only then that he knew who the true mother of the child was. She was the one who truly loved the child.

I will always be our son's mother nothing in the world can change that. I only hope that at his tender age I have been able to teach him enough to carry on without my continuous presence in his life. But more importantly he needs to have a mother who is able to provide for him emotionally, physically, and financially. And more importantly a mother who will be there for him in the future,happy, healthy and void of the constant stress that currently resides in her life due to lack of financial resources. I cannot continue this way he deserves much better than this. It is like I am perpetually standing still.

As I explained before the economic outlook in this community is very bleak and all efforts thus far have not been fruitful. It hope dashed by an unanswered job application or another rejection. The fact is that I will be homeless at the end of August. But that is not the point of this post.

He does not want me to relocate and break up the family. We are not a family as the family already broke up.

If he wants to be the primary parent (because he will not allow me to move with our son for a better life). Work full-time Monday - Friday. Have his elderly mother care for him from 8am to 5:30pm. Satisfy his own need for childcare on his free time. As he will be seeking female companionship. Plus deal with his ex wife and a visitation schedule with his other child.

It is therefore in our son best interest that I move forward with my life, one I hope that we have many more years together. I have no choice but to relocate on my own. One day our son will come to me as all children do. I will know that I and I alone will be the one that he misses. I know this from my own experience and the experience of my daughter.

Sometimes a parent will sacrifice everything, but in the end they grow and mature and they eventually will leave us as all children do.

I will always love you my son. This is for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pphVs8bF0
 
Phoenix Rising.

I noticed that you feel alone in getting those to understand your perspective.

There are many viewpoints being posted here from different lenses shaped by each individuals personal biases, experiences, values and belief system. The problem with forums interaction is that there is no context or tone or limited info to respond to. It's prone to misinterpretation or misunderstanding.

Only You know what's best for you and your personal situation. Just be open to other's feedback whether you agree or not and decide what works for you.

I wish you well.
 
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