Canada and the Long Gun registry

Canada and the Long Gun registry

  • Yes, It was/am in favour of it.

    Votes: 9 50.0%
  • No. I was/am against it.

    Votes: 4 22.2%
  • Undecided. I do not know.

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • It was a good idea conceptually, but poorly executed.

    Votes: 4 22.2%

  • Total voters
    18
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Coming a little late to the party here, but this is something I have been thinking about a lot lately given the recent happening.

IMO, I have no issue with hunting rifles, shotguns and certain hand guns. Many people hunt and target shoot. There is nothing wrong with those activities and people should be allowed to own the tools to practice those activities. But, you will see I am ok with guns for activities. They are a tool/instrument to conduct those activities/hobbies. Not unlike downhill skis. It is a part of the sport.

What I don't agree with is the perception that a gun is needed for protection. You don't need a gun to protect yourself. You need common sense. If you do need a gun for protection, you are likely doing something wrong. Wrong as in - criminal activity, living in a crappy neighbourhood and should spend the money on moving instead of a gun, be a complete moron by thinking it would be a great idea to walk down that dark alley at night, and that group of guys on the corner by the pay phone look like upstanding citizens.

IMO, people who are insecure need a gun for protection. And if I was ok with a gun for protection, I would lean to agreeing it for the house. And then the most effective thing is probably a shotgun, given that it is a close range, wide spread weapon. If you have a hand gun for target practice would also work. I currently live in a pretty shady neighbourhood (waiting for my house to be built). Even though it isn't that nice, and there was a murder around the corner (literally), I would never think I need a gun on to walk the streets at night. If I go out, I use my head and common sense.

Guns with large magazines and high caliber were made for 1 reason. To kill people. Civilians shouldn't need a gun thats sole use is to kill another person. There is no need to have a gun that holds 30 rounds. If you are that bad a shot that you need 30 rounds, everyone around you is likely in danger.

The NRA's position that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun is rediculous. Yeah, lets turn our malls/public areas into the OK Coral. Lets see how many die in the crossfire between said good buy and bad guy, and lets hold the good guy to the same punishment should they miss bad guy and take out an innocent just trying to get out of there.

I also don't agree with the argument of "well, if you ban guns you may as well ban baseball bats, cars, knives, rocks etc". That argument is rediculous:

First and foremost, the reason those things exist is for another purpose. Guns designed to kill people only exist to kill people.

Second is efficiency. It is inefficient to try and go on a rampage with a knife/bat. The perp could be easily overwhelmed by civilians and stopped with either of those. Civilians can also run away easier, thus diminishing the perps ability to do actual damage to a large number of people. With a gun, well.... you can't out run a bullet. It is easy for a perp to walk into a room and stray and get fatalities, vs walking into a room with a knife and get the same result.

Third is fatalities. There was a stabbing at a school in China not so long ago. From what I recall, some guy went nuts and stabbed a bunch of kids. But the difference is, and this is from recollection (and Chinese media, maybe not so unbiased) that there were no fatalities. Compare that to Sandy Hook, and you see that having a gun made a large difference.

I have a fair amount of family that own guns. They hunt. The guns are a tool, as they should be.
 
Coming a little late to the party here, but this is something I have been thinking about a lot lately given the recent happening...

HammerDad,

As always it is a pleasure to read anything you post to this forum. I don't really have anything to add to your well thought out position other than I am in agreement and that it is an excellent perspective on it all.

I would give you reputation for that one but, I think I have hit that button for you too many times and it won't let me.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
I essentially agree with HammerDad, and to compare guns to rocks, cars and baseballs bats is absurd. Having said that though I will state that where I live, there is a high rate of murders. The weapons of choice are knives. The demographics being what they are, knives fit into the life styles of the people using them as weapons. One could argue that if someone really wanted to murder, they will use whatever they have on hand to do so such as the aforementioned knives, but guns, even the hunting types, could easily result in a much higher rate of killings.
 
Knives are likely to cause injury, and in some cases, fatality.

High caliber guns or guns capable of holding multitudes of rounds are likely to cause a fatality, and in some cases, injury.

I agree that, if someone is bent on going out and causing significant bodily harm to others, they will use whatever they feel will be the most effective and is readily available. The simple fact is, when guns are available, there is a greater chance of a significant amount damage to be done vs other weapons.
 
I agree with you HammerDad, and your last paragraph especially was what I was trying to stress...guns kill. As mentioned, where I live, most of the murders were executed with knives, but I believe that guns are much more deadly in the huge majority of cases.

The statement of someone using whatever is handy for killing was a rhetorical statement that was used by a previous poster on this thread. I mentioned same as an example to stress the much greater danger of guns regarding human life.
 
An excellent and well-put post, HammerDad.

Not sure if I mentioned this before but wondered if others knew that catchy tune by a band called 'Foster The People' - the song is called 'pumped up kicks' and the lyrics are all about gun violence/out running a bullet.

I may have mentioned that in another post, or earlier in this one - I can't recall :/
 
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I essentially agree with HammerDad, and to compare guns to rocks, cars and baseballs bats is absurd. Having said that though I will state that where I live, there is a high rate of murders. The weapons of choice are knives. The demographics being what they are, knives fit into the life styles of the people using them as weapons. One could argue that if someone really wanted to murder, they will use whatever they have on hand to do so such as the aforementioned knives, but guns, even the hunting types, could easily result in a much higher rate of killings.

But its the exact opposite of absurd to compare guns to rocks. That's kinda the whole point of this thread in the first place.

You can throw a rock at somebody after making a poor decision in anger, and the end result is not nearly as final as a gun shot wound can be.

Thus, exactly why there SHOULD be strict controls on guns.

Here in canada, there is an 800 number for the RCMP that if you have a concern with somebody and their mental state, or general well-being, you can call the number and say "this person has guns, and I am concerned for him/her because of these following reasons..."

The cops WILL follow that up.

Now that system can be abused, but I would rather have a system in place to be abused versus no system in place at all. I say that having been on the 'abused' end of that spectrum. Better safe than sorry.

Rocks hurt. Guns kill.

An excellent and well-put post, HammerDad.

Not sure if I mentioned this before but wondered if others knew that catchy tune by a band called 'Foster The People' - the song is called 'pumped up kicks' and the lyrics are all about gun violence/out running a bullet.

I may have mentioned that in another post, or earlier in this one - I can't recall :/

I actually like that tune. It's pretty catchy.
 
Yes it is a great song. Look up the lyrics. Surprising.

There was some gun violence in my past. (Not towards me). I have considered joining a Gun Club in the past. It's on "the List" ;) I'd be worried to have a gun in the house though b/c I have had episodes in the past of sleep-walking (!!) - and I'm a little fearful of that b/c it's amazing what one can do while asleep. Anyway, that's another topic lol. I'm definitely not kidding though.
 
"Robert's got a quick hand.
He'll look around the room,
he wont tell you his plan.
He's got a rolled cigarette
hanging out his mouth.
He's a cowboy kid.

Yeah! He found a six-shooter gun
in his dad's closet, with the box of fun things.
I don't even know what,
but he's coming for you. Yeah, He's coming for you!

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, outrun my gun.
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, outrun my gun.
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.

Daddy works a long day.
He be coming home late, and he's coming home late.
And he's bringing me a surprise.
'cause dinner's in the kitchen and it's packed in ice

I've waited for a long time.
Yeah the sleight of my hand is now a quick-pull trigger.
I reason with my cigarette,
Then say, "Your hair's on fire, you must have lost your wits, yeah?"

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, outrun my gun.
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
[ From: FOSTER THE PEOPLE - PUMPED UP KICKS LYRICS ]
You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, outrun my gun.
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.

(Run, Run, Run, Run. Run, Run.
R-Run, Run, Run.
R-Run.
R-Run, Run, Run.
R-Run.
Run, Run.
Run, Run.
Run, Run, Run.)

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, outrun my gun.
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, faster than my bullet."

Foster The People
 
Maybe I should have been more to the point. I am and always have been in favour for a stricter control of guns.

Steven Lippman MD of University of Louisville says:

"Guns are the most frequently used means involved in deaths by domestic violence, increasing the rate of killing an intimate partner. Five times as many women are shot to death in homes where such weaponry is available in contrast to households without them. Family member homicide is much more likely.... "

Also wanted to make clear that I wasn't suggesting that stones, baseball bats or bird dung be compared with gun useage in any way.
 
"Robert's got a quick hand.
He'll look around the room,
he wont tell you his plan.
He's got a rolled cigarette
hanging out his mouth.
He's a cowboy kid.

Yeah! He found a six-shooter gun
in his dad's closet, with the box of fun things.
I don't even know what,
but he's coming for you. Yeah, He's coming for you!

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, outrun my gun.
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, outrun my gun.
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.

Daddy works a long day.
He be coming home late, and he's coming home late.
And he's bringing me a surprise.
'cause dinner's in the kitchen and it's packed in ice

I've waited for a long time.
Yeah the sleight of my hand is now a quick-pull trigger.
I reason with my cigarette,
Then say, "Your hair's on fire, you must have lost your wits, yeah?"

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, outrun my gun.
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
[ From: FOSTER THE PEOPLE - PUMPED UP KICKS LYRICS ]
You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, outrun my gun.
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.

(Run, Run, Run, Run. Run, Run.
R-Run, Run, Run.
R-Run.
R-Run, Run, Run.
R-Run.
Run, Run.
Run, Run.
Run, Run, Run.)

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, outrun my gun.
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,
You better run, better run, faster than my bullet."

Foster The People

Clevr lyrics, and catchy tune. I read into the lyrics a dysfunctional family resulting in a childs insecurities which manifest themself through gun violence. Perhaps it would have mnifested itself throught hte act of 'cutting' would the child have had a slightly different look on life, or could not fantasize about gun violence knowing he/she could get access to a firearm.

because let's be real. Your kids (and mine!) know every inch of our houses. Yes, they know about the vibrator in the secret spot too.

here have been several songs similar over my years, but the one that comes most to mind is "Monday', but the 'boom town rats', i think.

Maybe I should have been more to the point. I am and always have been in favour for a stricter control of guns.

Steven Lippman MD of University of Louisville says:

"Guns are the most frequently used means involved in deaths by domestic violence, increasing the rate of killing an intimate partner. Five times as many women are shot to death in homes where such weaponry is available in contrast to households without them. Family member homicide is much more likely.... "

Also wanted to make clear that I wasn't suggesting that stones, baseball bats or bird dung be compared with gun useage in any way.

Well lets all be honest. If one REALLY gets it in their head to "KILL"...
Well a knife is just as good as a gun.

But the potential for death through stabbing (in our advanced state of medical knowledge) is much less than the chance of death via GSW.

As a result, when someone is sick and gets that int their head and finally ACTS on it - well, the end result is alot less painful when they can only find a knfie vs. a gun.

Furthermore,
In my humble estimation (from a psychological point of view), when somethiing has less regu,ation, it is viewed as 'less' harmful than the next thing.

Firearms should never be viewed as 'less' harmfull than the next thing.
 
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Yes it was The Boomtown Rats. "I don't like Mondays" - a song based on a true account - a 15 or 16 year old girl that opened up her bedroom window and opened fire on the Elementary School directly across the street from her Apartment.
 
pearl jam - jeremy.
That's another one.

It's a 'thing' that is so prevelant it is reflected in popular media.

That in itself tell us it's a problem that needs to be addressed.
 
Assault rifles or any type of automatic weapons should never be in private ownership anyway.They have no use except for killing people .They have no use as a weapon of self defence ;a shotgun is far safer with less chance of shot going though a wall and hitting another occupant.That is if someone has a need for a weapon at home.There is an issue too.If someone is wrapped up in paranoia do you want them having a gun?Hell no!

There is gun sport and those people have a right to their shotguns and rifles, and they get training in those in order to hold those gun licences.Those people by and large are responsible and law abiding.

Banning all automatic weapons is a good thing as is banning extended clips imho.Trying to ban hunting rifles and shotguns however is just going overboard.But lets be clear -nobody needs a bazooka to bring down a moose .:)
 
How long does i take to change a hand-guns magazine?

If the Sandy Hook perp shot over 200 rounds (I think I read that is he number reprted number) from a semi auto-hangun (the types reported he used) with a full maagazine of 15+1 rounds (the standard magazine size in the staes is 15).

Compare that to the legally mandated magazine size of 10 here in Canada. You can only buy a hand-gun magazine with a maximum capacity of 10.

So let's say 15 seconds to trade empty for full magazine, and that sounds like someone that isn't familier to the weapon in my opinion - 15 seconds.

but anyway. Fifteen secondes per switch over 200 rounds in increments of 10 versus 15.

What's the difference? Someone good at math tell me?

And is that time enough time to be over or under the 7 minute expected response time for the police to be at your door when you call?

Oh wait. Perhap I show my age - but in these disparate times I think the 'expected' first reposnder time has been raised to 12 minutes in Ontario. Good Stuff.
 
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The handgun legislation in the states is crazy -as is pretty much everything about America .We can have handguns if we chose but we have plenty of hoops to jump through in order to get them.We are Canadian,our government and legislation is based on the needs of society, rather than America's.That is all about the rights of the individual.
Can we have something as bad as Sandy hook with someone with mental illness getting firearms?Less likely, and due to the fact that most gun ownership here is for rifles and shotguns ,there would less mortalities.Long guns take longer to load and are harder to conceal.But a lot of gangs deal in small arms so it wouldn't be too hard for someone to acquire an unregistered firearm.If someone is determined to get a gun -they will get a gun.
 
I posted a link (several comments back) of an article re: Sandy Hook from the U.K.

I was hoping there would be some feedback generated from it, although it is on the 'Conspiratorial Side' - (there are some interesting points raised, in it).
 
There has been a fair bit of crazy reporting about Sandy and I don't buy into all of it.Some of it doesn't add up at all. However I really would like to read the full coroners report before I pass any judgement.Most likely the truth is somewhere in between.Remember all that crazy reporting for that case in the states ..Casey Anthony?It led to shoddy police work and shoddy prosecution.Now new evidence puts her googling how to suffocate a child before her daughter went "missing".Can't retry her, so she is free to do as she pleases.The overreach and downright negligent reporting in the Sandy Hook case is going to hamper any real inquiry into every aspect of the shooting.Thats just my two cents.
 
There has been a fair bit of crazy reporting about Sandy and I don't buy into all of it.Some of it doesn't add up at all. However I really would like to read the full coroners report before I pass any judgement.Most likely the truth is somewhere in between.Remember all that crazy reporting for that case in the states ..Casey Anthony?It led to shoddy police work and shoddy prosecution.Now new evidence puts her googling how to suffocate a child before her daughter went "missing".Can't retry her, so she is free to do as she pleases.The overreach and downright negligent reporting in the Sandy Hook case is going to hamper any real inquiry into every aspect of the shooting.Thats just my two cents.

Similar approach I take when parents come to this message board and post piles of hearsay about "intimate partner abuse", "controlling" ex-spouses, "child abuse" etc...

The media often projects a view of a situation in a way that they want similar these posters I find. It is called "spin". Similar pattern of behaviour of "saving ones self" that often people use on this forum in their own matters before the courts.

Best said by the Honourable Madame Justice Mossip:

As Catherine Gildiner wrote in the preface to her book, After the Falls, (Toronto: Alfred A. Knopf Canada, 2009):

Memory is a tricky business. No two people remember things the same way. Memory is not a recording device; it is the brain’s way of allowing us to select moments in order to interpret our pasts. All the images on file in our brains pass through elaborate screens of unconscious needs and emerge as memories.

To that quote I would add that the filtering process we go through helps us “save” ourselves, so that we can present ourselves in the best light possible. It is only through years of often painful therapy that we can understand how much we may have filtered our own experiences to save ourselves. There is nothing insidious or wrong about this process; it is part of the human brain’s brilliance. It is not someone else telling us we are “wrong” in our memory that gives us insight; it is our own reflecting, with professional assistance, that leads us to that level of awareness and understanding about ourselves.

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f3/introducing-very-honourable-madame-justice-mossip-13753/

Yet, there are those who will hurl allegations, in light of cogent and relevant evidence to the "spin" at me and the others who hold a similar view. Which is rather unfortunate to say the least.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
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