Brainwashing

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Ok, my husband needs help to draft something to his ex wife....seeking input. They have joint custody and existing agreement that says she cannot move the kids without a court order.

Situation: After Xmas, ex-wife and her new husband got posting notice (they would move this summer). During the winter they got the posting delayed a year because they just had twins. Posting will occur next Spring/Summer.

S9 was talking in the back seat of the car today and told his brothers that his Mom was moving away next year. My husband said "oh really?". He said "I can spend all summer with you and then live with Mom the rest of the time". My husband said "who told you that?". He said that his Mom did. And the most upsetting part of it all...he said it matter-of-factly, and wasn't the least bit upset about it!

This is absolutely the last straw for us with her brainwashing crap. Are you kidding me? She is totally grooming the kid and he assumes that he's moving away with her next year.

My husband plans to bring it to trial when the time comes. So, if he gets to keep S9 here, he will automatically look like the bad guy and that he wouldn't let S9 move with his Mom because she has him already primed to move.

How is this just? It is becoming near impossible for my husband to maintain quality relationships with his kids, this is nuts!

Anyway, my husband wants to send her an email. We know that she will reply to it very defensively so we were thinking that it might be proof for court that she actually did say it.

Or, do you think we should just keep quiet at this point and bring it up through the courts?
 
How far away is the proposed move? You should search CanLii for similar cases. Probably best not to jump too quick on firing off an email. Not yet. The Court order doesn't state that she can't move (right?) - just that she needs to bring the matter before the Courts. I've done some reading on the 'relocation' topic - but I'm no expert. I find that it's surprisingly often that these requests are granted given that the party wishing to re-locate can present a compelling enough argument. I think you should research this before addressing it in an email or conversation.

I am often amazed on here at the various situations people are faced with. I have to commend all you spouses who go to bat for your partners, who are embroiled in one legal battle or another. I just don't know if I could do it. As well I wonder - why aren't the ones going through it personally seeking advice? Anyway, I understand it's good to be supportive, and I suppose if I was married to someone facing these challenges, I'd take some interest. I'm on the flip side of things: I'm happily not re-married and my ex's new spouse waaay over involves herself in my matters with him. She should be grateful - I don't call there or go there. Ex and I do not speak. Sorry, that was a little off-topic. Regardless, dig up as much info as you can. It would be unwise to think that there's no way she can pull this move off. Good Luck.
 
Their agreement specifically states that she cannot move the kids out of province without a court order.

Oh, and we live in NS, they would be moving to ON or Quebec
 
Ok, well that's more specific than your original post (1st line). "They have joint custody and existing agreement that says she cannot move the kids without a court order."

It would appear that she's willing to take her chances and go to Court to get permission. Hard to know what the Courts would rule: but it DOES happen - that the OP is allowed to make the move. Hope it all works out for you. It's a tough spot to be in I'd imagine.
 
I wouldn't email the ex. You know her better than I, but do you not think she would turn around and tell S9 not to talk you guys about this stuff? Effectively, causing more brain washing. I agree with hadenough. Start researching and gathering evidence on how the move will adversely affect the kids. At least your husband get's some time try and reverse the effects of what the ex is doing. So many dad's are stuck in limbo and get NO chance to stop the conditioning of the kids. I myself am stuck dealing with someone saying some severly innapropriate things to our 3 year old. I just keep being the solid parent. They'll figure out the difference soon enough. I'd focus on building a case against the move.

Good luck!
 
T123: I'm ashamed to admit that my son had about 7 years of hearing sh*t talk from the ex about me. It has had no bearing on our good mother-child relationship. You are smart enough to have left sooner than I did. Your child (*3 yrs of age) will be just fine in this respect. The scary thing is (well, there's several) is that SOME of what ex used to say to child - I did not know about until well after EX was out of the residence. Kids are very smart and eventually see what's what, for themselves. It really is pure evil - the things some adults say to Children about the other parent. The ex still occasionally bad-mouths me - as does his wife, but it's pretty infrequent and they are very careful now about what gets said in front of the child. The sad part is - not b/c they know how wrong and unfair it is (to child) but b/c they are covering their butts.
 
I would write the most tactful email possible that says something along the lines of

"Our son told me today that he would be moving with you when your husband is posted. I'd like to remind you that our divorce order states that the child is not to move unless we obtain a new court order. As this has not yet occurred, it is unwise to mislead our son as to his future. Let us finish our negotiation/mediation/trial and find out what the future holds before we explain anything to him. It is in his best interests not to have us telling him things that may not turn out to be the case. I have told him that the issue has not been decided yet."

And then explain to the son that actually, his mother is ahead of the game a bit and that the arrangement he described is only one possibility of many, but the final outcome hasn't been decided yet.

That way, it demonstrates to everyone that his parents (especially dad) are trying to keep his best interests in mind, and negotiating the issue like reasonable adults. It doesn't make the mom look bad either. Much.

But you know the ex better than we do, and what her response might be. And yes, definitely do the research to see what the best option actually is for the child.
 
Agree with you totally hadenough - matters about divorce, custody should be dealt with by parties who were once married, certainly not the new spouses.
 
arabian said:
Agree with you totally hadenough - matters about divorce, custody should be dealt with by parties who were once married, certainly not the new spouses.
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Not sure if you read the entire thread. My husband will be dealing with his ex-wife. I am simply seeking advice for him.

Thanks for the advice. If this was just one incident, I think we would feel differently about it. But it's just one in a series of incidents lately. We can't cut S9's hair because when he goes home she tells him that it's too short, too crooked, he doesn't have to have his hair the same as his Dad's. She told us that she waits for him to tell her when he wants his hair cut. And when is that - never! If his hair needs trimmed when we get our other 2 sons done, then he gets done too. You should see his face when we tell him he's getting a trim, he's so scared about what his Mom will say when he gets home. She has written us on 3 different occasions telling us to stop obsessing about his hair, that he is so annoyed by it. We aren't obsessed, we simply want it presentable and if he wants it long, we make him comb it everyday - gasp! She lets him roll out of bed and go to school with bed head.

Let's see, S9 doesn't want to go to your house tomorrow, he doesn't want to spend Easter with you, you ruined his Easter, he has spent the past three weekends there and wants an entire weekend with me. Give him a break she says. A break from seeing his Father. She's the primary caregiver and he has 39% access.

Oh, and I'll point out that my husband's ex-wife signs her emails from her and her new husband. But guess what, my husband could care less LOL!
 
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Logic tells me that if the boy is upset about having hair cut - leave it alone!!! She is the primary care giver. Quit putting the boy in the middle of things. In the long run it's really very petty and unimportant. You should be focussed on making the boy feel comfortable in your home and encourage a good relationship with his father. The end.
 
arabian said:
Logic tells me that if the boy is upset about having hair cut - leave it alone!!! She is the primary care giver. Quit putting the boy in the middle of things. In the long run it's really very petty and unimportant. You should be focussed on making the boy feel comfortable in your home and encourage a good relationship with his father. The end.
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We treat him the same way we treat our other two boys. When it's time for a haircut, it's time for a haircut. No big deal. You're not getting the point of this thread. It's not about the haircut, or the fact that I'm the one asking for advice. It's about a parent brainwashing a kid and I guess unless you've experienced it, you just don't get it.
 
Dad has just as much rights as mom does. She may be listed as primary caregiver but they took him for a haircut, not a lobotomy. And so far, I haven't seen anything that mentions the boy being upset about his haircut, just that mom was upset and went on to say the boy was. Mom is the one with the problem here, not dad.
 
Thank you Blink! We have respected that he has wanted to keep his hair a little longer, but it does need to be trimmed for god sakes. And he always likes it afterwards, he is just so hesitant about what his mom will think.

So I guess my next question would be...

He wants 50-50 and plans to put an application in to increase access based on the fact that his deployments for the past two years are complete.

Part of the reason this is becoming increasingly important is the escalation of the behavior from the ex as described above. He is starting to feel like the relationship between him and his kids does not stand a chance.

So, would you start the application for 50-50 very soon based on the deployment change and the brainwashing stuff that has been going on, or wait until next Spring when he will be in court anyway fighting to keep his kids here in the province????
 
Ok, so it's not the Brady Bunch. The only reason that worked out so well is that presumably their ex's had dropped dead - unless I missed an episode that explained where they were (?). 2nd marriages are apparently giving a lot of people a run for their money - literally.

I really can't relate. *I'm not married to someone w/other kids. I also don't get why my ex's wife thrust herself into things the way she did, but whatever.
In many ways: I am the "dream ex-wife" and still the pea-brain meddles. I ignore her and actually feel some sympathy for her, strangely enough.

Having said that - it seems to be a given that - one signs up for the "package deal" when one cohabits with another that was married and has other child(ren). In a perfect world - there would be no issues - but the law of averages seems to lend itself to there being problems for many. "Haircuts" obviously the least of your concerns, and understood - that you used that as an example. The original issue I believe was the proposed out of province move that you and your husband have caught wind of. The emails and petty nuances are irrelevant and not likely to change anytime soon. Focus on putting forth a good argument as to why such a move is not in the best interests of the Child.
 
Thanks hadenough, we have most defintely been researching the issues that will come up with the impending move.

I love my husband to death, but believe me, there are days when I think I should have thought twice about getting into this mess LOL! I wish I could remove myself more from these situations emotionally, but the fact is that it consumes us both. I'm hoping it means that we have a really good relationship? LOL!

The extent of my involvement is just to research and get advice for my husband. I don't interact with my husband's ex directly. She hates me, her daughters hate me now, and she has insulted me and my kids when she doesn't even know me. It really is a big mess. I wish his ex would ignore us LOL!!
 
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Well said hadenough. The two parents should try to get together and see if they can sift through the BS and work this out themselves. Ignoring the spouse's ex is excellent advice here. I'd go so far as to recommend that she tell her husband to keep her out of any and all future negotiations regarding custody. I too hate meddlers and believe they just want to feel important. Father of the child is likely quite capable of handling the issue himself.
 
I think its hard for those who are not in the position that CCB and I are in, to realize what we as partners of those going through a divorce have to put up with.

I to am on this forum to gain advice for my partner, he is not handy with computers, not able to do the extent of research I do and to be honest I am the nerd of the relationship. One positive thing for me about being with someone going through a divorce, is I have learned a hell of a lot about family law and divorce. I personally enjoy learning and this is something I would never have researched as much as I have without being with him.

I adore his children and treat them like every other child in my life. Of course it drives me insane when his ex is doing something that has a negative impact on the kids. Do I have say anything to the ex? Not at all, but I do seek advice for him and even though I am the one that types on this forum, I show him the responses that are given.

Maybe I am one of a kind, because I don't hate his ex and there have been times when he has said...I am going to do/say this... and I have to be the voice of reason and tell him no he can't do/say that.

It has nothing to do with feeling important, but when I started with my partner, I knew he was a package deal. When he asks for help I am not about to say no. I understand a lot of of new partners get way too involved and may cause more issues than they do good... however saying that new partners want to feel important is painting us all the same.
 
The world is full of people going through all kinds of situations and ever-changing circumstances. I am glad my ex is with someone else. Better her, than me (with him). Considering she doesn't know me at all, it's pretty pathetic how she injected herself into the middle of everything right out of the gate. From my perspective, it's been a sad and telling example of just how wrongly influenced some women (men too) are, by what their new partner tells them. Basically believing every word they are told. In my case, even when it has been eventually discovered that he was/is a liar - she's perfectly okay with that it seems. Like I said - better her than me.

It's commendable when everyone can just get along/move on. Unfortunately that is obviously the exception, and not the rule. As for "package deals" - she can have him!! :) I have had little choice but to be engaged in litigation with him, and it's not over yet. I would have liked nothing more than to have ended things amicably and fairly. Those concepts are foreign to my ex. I would have preferred to deal with her, over him (ie: for pick ups/drop offs) in the early days, but that too was not to be.

She has harassed and threatened me via email and basically proven herself to be a drama-queen. They are perfect for one another. I may not be in CCB's position but I do know how all this crap can be very consuming. It feels like it will never end. BF and CCB: your guys are lucky to have your support.

There's a difference between support and throwing one's self (sp?) right into the middle. I can't imagine ever doing that. I personally have decided until things are more resolved for me, I'd prefer to be single. It probably sounds bitchy, but when the time comes that I might want someone in my life - it sure as hell won't be anyone with court/custody battles or a nutty/difficult ex. You couldn't pay me enough lol. I understand though, it's different if you're already in the relationship (long-term).
 
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I am sure it isn't easy for you and I can understand your frustration but, like you said... package deal.

This forum is for people going through divorce and all the aftermath, etc. You probably have a good point but maybe there is a forum for those of you who are married to the people who went through the divorce. My ex is with a woman who writes absolutely every bit of documentation for court and probably looks everything up for him as he's basically lazy. She has to involve herself in everything. We do not have minor children. It's pretty sicko. One small example.... When we first separated (he had put all of our company money into her bank account)he gave me money with a note from her (in her handwriting) insisting that I sign for it - MY OWN MONEY. Another example - I found his garage door opener that he had left in my son's car and dropped it off (left in his mailbox) and the bitch tried to have a peace bond (restraining order) put on me. She used to continually call my lawyer and I could go on and on.

My own personal experience has definitely made me have a very low regard for people who butt into matters that should clearly be between the two people who were married/had the children. I have heard the excuse many times that the new wife/girlfriend is just "doing the research" but I don't believe it all of the time. Sorry but that's just my feeling.
 
Hadenough - very well said and I agree with you. I like your perspective. I am saddened that my marriage of 30 yrs ended so poorly with so much animosity but I guess shit happens. I am going to be in litigation for a long time to come as well. Our divorce was done in 9 months but the court stuff has to do with the ashes of our company, and, of course my ex's attempts to have spousal support eliminated (notachance asshole).
 
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