Big financial difference. Please help.

F

Freeryder

New member
Here's the facts to keep it as simple as possible:
My wife is a student doctor who has just graduated and is doing an extra year of study. We have been married for 11.2 years and living together for 13 years. We have one child who is 3 and will be split 50/50. She separated from me the day after she graduated. We got back together and are currently trying to make it work. To accommodate this I have quit my job of ten years and $130k was my best year with a ten year average of about $80k per year. This happened a month ago. However, things have been going south and I think her heart has changed and I am unable to keep us as a family.

Right now she makes about 70k per year, but in 8 months she will go up to around $400k to start.

I understand how judges can Change spousal support. I have helped support her to this point, paying for our house cars food and some school. We have a line of credit at $-30k once all of our assets are taken into account. Right now it sits at -200k but I have rrsps and we have equity in our house.

Can someone please let me know approx what my min/max payments and years payable would be. I figure I can stop being mr mom and get a job starting around 70-80k per year with my experience.

A good lawyer will be a must. We both love our child and want the best for him. Sadly I am still madly in love with my wife and would do anything to keep us together.

I am 32 so is my high school sweetheart.

Thanks for your help/advice.
 
Well this is pretty familiar to me. My ex is a fifth year resident in a specialized field of medicine, 12 months away from graduating.

Although you may be required to pay child support depending on your access with the child, I would suggest that there will likely be no need for you to pay spousal support. In eight months, assuming she gets a job, she should be paying you compensatory spousal support. Why would you pay her spousal support when she is making $400k?

You haven't said where the child will live, etc. I worry because you still identify her as your "sweetheart" that your feelings for your wife will cloud your judgement. A good lawyer is definitely in your best interest.
 
Freeryder said:
Here's the facts to keep it as simple as possible:
My wife is a student doctor who has just graduated and is doing an extra year of study. We have been married for 11.2 years and living together for 13 years. We have one child who is 3 and will be split 50/50. She separated from me the day after she graduated. We got back together and are currently trying to make it work. To accommodate this I have quit my job of ten years and $130k was my best year with a ten year average of about $80k per year. This happened a month ago. However, things have been going south and I think her heart has changed and I am unable to keep us as a family.

Right now she makes about 70k per year, but in 8 months she will go up to around $400k to start.

I understand how judges can Change spousal support. I have helped support her to this point, paying for our house cars food and some school. We have a line of credit at $-30k once all of our assets are taken into account. Right now it sits at -200k but I have rrsps and we have equity in our house.

Can someone please let me know approx what my min/max payments and years payable would be. I figure I can stop being mr mom and get a job starting around 70-80k per year with my experience.

A good lawyer will be a must. We both love our child and want the best for him. Sadly I am still madly in love with my wife and would do anything to keep us together.

I am 32 so is my high school sweetheart.

Thanks for your help/advice.
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First of all seek marriage counseling, spend money on it and delay the breakup as much as possible, do every thing the counselor suggests + more to try to keep the marriage intact. she broke up previously but some times its just a phase. some times parties just need a break from each other for a bit. hopefully the marriage can be saved.

BUT do prepare yourself diligently, remember your "love" can get you killed!

There is a "list" thats often posted on the forms, read through it.
For now DO NOT stop being Mr Mom,
You will most certainly need the DivorceMate software.
start meeting lawyers, pay in cash and dont bring any papers home, retain a private locker and put all documents there, you are taking care of the child, make sure its very well documented.

even if you decide to breakup, keep it covert until she reaches the 400k mark and live with her as long as possible,
have the debts paid off before you breakup.
your support entitlement will be massively different if you breakup now vs when she is making the 400k.
 
sahibjee said:
First of all seek marriage counseling, spend money on it and delay the breakup as much as possible, do every thing the counselor suggests + more to try to keep the marriage intact. she broke up previously but some times its just a phase. some times parties just need a break from each other for a bit. hopefully the marriage can be saved.

BUT do prepare yourself diligently, remember your "love" can get you killed!

There is a "list" thats often posted on the forms, read through it.
For now DO NOT stop being Mr Mom,
You will most certainly need the DivorceMate software.
start meeting lawyers, pay in cash and dont bring any papers home, retain a private locker and put all documents there, you are taking care of the child, make sure its very well documented.

even if you decide to breakup, keep it covert until she reaches the 400k mark and live with her as long as possible,
have the debts paid off before you breakup.
your support entitlement will be massively different if you breakup now vs when she is making the 400k.
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I really cannot believe that you would give advice like that to someone on here. To manipulate his ex so he gets more $$$. I really hope the OP has more class then you.
 
I think your biggest priority will be to document your activities as an equal parent, and protect your 50/50 arrangement. Very likely your ex will fight strongly against this once she realizes she will be paying you about $2200 in CS each month (based on 100K and 400K incomes), and especially if she is angered by you asking for spousal support (which could be in the range of $5000/month for a few years).

It sounds like equalization will be a non-issue - since you basically have no assets (household contents/vehicles + 200K LOC debt + 170K assets?). Very little money needs to be exchanged. But whoever remains in the house has to be prepared to shoulder all housing costs themselves - which might be difficult for YOU until you reestablish income.

You MIGHT possibly be entitled to claim for spousal support:
- Was she working through her school? It sounds like you BOTH have temporary earnings decrease (you quitting your job and her having lower income while in school)
- Your decision to quit your job was very recent, so it might not be relevant (i.e. you cannot show you have sacrificed your career).
- The wide income difference might be the biggest point in your favour.

Check out this: MySupportCalculator.ca
 
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I really don't want a divorce. Ever. We saw a therapist, he helped us out. But my wife's heart seems cold. I truly think 50/50 is what we both want should we get a divorce. She is moving to Australia for 4 months to finish med school training. I hope we are still together by then to avoid any issues with child custody.

I will get a lawyer if we go down that path. I just wanted a ball park figure of spousal support so that I can plan for the worst. Starting life over at 32 and 15k of debt seems pretty bad as I've supported her throughout her schooling... But if it happens, I will hand it over to a good lawyer and hope for the best!

I look at it as I helped her for 13 years with school books parking transportation insurance clothing etc. She should have to help me out until I can find a job that pays the same as I was making....

Lets just hope it is a phase.

Thanks guys and gals!
 
Where will your 3yo be while she goes to Australia? Plenty of stories out there of a 'temporary' move with kid becoming a permanent situation.
 
Well she will only have a temporary visa, I would keep him for 2 months and fly with him down (take a personal vacation) and leave him the rest of the time. How long before the move becomes permanent?
 
Avoid any situation that will require the help of 'the system' to correct. Because, 'the system' can take years, and MANY thousands of dollars, and your entire energy - and even then you may be out of luck.
e.g. you move out of the house without a signed and established 50/50 parenting schedule in place, and you are on the mortgage. Presto - you've just handed your ex a great big lever to use against you in negotiation.
e.g. you believe that your ex will return after 2 months in Australia. Then they decide the job market is GREAT there, and decide not to come back. Now what...

I know this is your sweetheart, whom you love dearly. But watch your back. Doing a lot of reading on this site can give you some idea of the horrors that can occur.
 
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I don't know "student doctors" who, immediately upon graduation, make 400k. Is this a partnership arrangement where the 400k is guaranteed income?
 
She is a GI specialist with an extra year of training planning on doing a fee for service... It would be 380-450 depending on what kind of year she is having. Her father is a GI doctor and says that's what all GI's make around. Once your more efficient you can make 5+.
 
32 yrs old and 400 net (after paying overhead)? Many GIs who have practiced for over 10 yrs don't make that. Better get factual information on this before you assume anything. Even in the US, where physicians can make more money, one has to calculate in the malpractice insurance. When you operate a medical practice you have overhead (unionized nurses, rent, etc.) which can take a big chunk out of your income. Also keep in mind that doctors generally bill provincial health care plans and there can be a fee cap. (Most doctor's bill 'fee for service' to the provincial government).

Generally spousal support, and likely child support for that matter, relies on actual income data. A person seeking substantial SS from a spouse they put through school would be smart to have a frequent salary review of paying spouse in their divorce agreement.

No different than lawyers. Some lawyers make great amounts of money, others do not and struggle just the same as everyone else (don't be fooled by the nice suit & fancy office). Friend of mine used to make a hefty amount of change by lending money to personal injury lawyers. Banks only lend so much and many personal injury cases go on for several years. Lawyers have to eat just the same as the rest of us.



You quit your job

Read up on "entitlement" to spousal support. Just having a large difference in income doesn't necessarily cut it. The two of you are very young.

Divorce/SS decisions examine how the divorce action disadvantages one person over the other (in my opinion).
 
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I've known some people who have finished the med school in Australia and they say it was an awesome experience. Maybe you should regroup and think about going on the trip to OZ with her? Would be a great experience for both of you. I'm sure she'd prefer having the father of her child there rather than hired help.

Med school is extremely demanding. The two of you have the added responsibility of having a young child. Can't be easy.

Hopefully the two of you can find your way through this.

Stay the course.
 
standing on the sidelines said:
I really cannot believe that you would give advice like that to someone on here. To manipulate his ex so he gets more $$$. I really hope the OP has more class then you.
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Actually, it is quite common advice that negative advocate solicitors give to clients all the time. It is yet another "truism" exposed...
 
Tayken said:
Actually, it is quite common advice that negative advocate solicitors give to clients all the time. It is yet another "truism" exposed...
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Perhaps you can provide some proof that this is "quite common advice" given by lawyers? You write about what lawyers do quite often. How do you know that is what lawyers are telling their clients?


As far as I am aware, if there is a valid element of compensatory support, the OP will get a smaller amount of support now and a healthy increase once his wife is making a doctor's salary. He doesn't have to wait until she starts working to separate just to get the highest spousal support amount.
 
Freeryder said:
Well she will only have a temporary visa, I would keep him for 2 months and fly with him down (take a personal vacation) and leave him the rest of the time. How long before the move becomes permanent?
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What you don't want to allow to establish is "habitual residence" of the child in question as Australia. Substantial evidence would have to be put forward by the parent bringing the motion to establish a custody and access order. This is incredibly hard to do with only a 2 months of residential time in a common wealth country.

Children's Law Reform Act of Ontario said:
Jurisdiction

22. (1) A court shall only exercise its jurisdiction to make an order for custody of or access to a child where,

(a) the child is habitually resident in Ontario at the commencement of the application for the order;

(b) although the child is not habitually resident in Ontario, the court is satisfied,

(i) that the child is physically present in Ontario at the commencement of the application for the order,

(ii) that substantial evidence concerning the best interests of the child is available in Ontario,

(iii) that no application for custody of or access to the child is pending before an extra-provincial tribunal in another place where the child is habitually resident,

(iv) that no extra-provincial order in respect of custody of or access to the child has been recognized by a court in Ontario,

(v) that the child has a real and substantial connection with Ontario, and

(vi) that, on the balance of convenience, it is appropriate for jurisdiction to be exercised in Ontario. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, s. 22 (1).​

Habitual residence

(2) A child is habitually resident in the place where he or she resided,

(a) with both parents;

(b) where the parents are living separate and apart, with one parent under a separation agreement or with the consent, implied consent or acquiescence of the other or under a court order; or

(c) with a person other than a parent on a permanent basis for a significant period of time, whichever last occurred. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, s. 22 (2).
​

Abduction

(3) The removal or withholding of a child without the consent of the person having custody of the child does not alter the habitual residence of the child unless there has been acquiescence or undue delay in commencing due process by the person from whom the child is removed or withheld. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.12, s. 22 (3).
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It isn't advisable to allow a minor child to travel with a parent with a separation and possibly divorce pending. Your best option is to retain counsel to advise you on the travel consent and any necessary agreements that need to be put in place and any advisory to the Australian Governments that need to be issued.

It is highly doubtful that the other parent would be at all successful in bringing an application for custody and access of the child in question in Australia after a 2 month "visit" while completing their education there. Claiming refugee status in Australia is not easy for a Canadian and applying for a visa while still married requires the disclosure of the relationship and they will ask about the consent from the other parent for any documentation they issue for a minor child.

You have very little to worry about regarding the trip in my personal opinion... Just get the proper documentation put in place.

To establish residency of a child it would require the parent, even if they are offered an employment visa, to declare the residency of the child and their spouse. It would be immigration fraud if the parent whom is travelling for their residency training to fail to disclose their marriage (not yet divorce) and the minor child. Despite the availability of work to complete a work visa one cannot defraud the government by failing to disclose required information.

While in Australia the chlid would have no access to public services (health care) and education without residential status. In fact, they may need this for simple enrolment into a daycare service and at minimum the consent of both parents.

So, despite the "employment opportunities" for a resident training for any medical professional in Australia... Their employment doesn't change their "custody" and "access" to the child. In fact, Australia is a very good citizen of the Hauge Convention and after 2 months of even "visiting" will NOT qualify as compelling evidence to establish a habitual residential location of the child.

Australia is also very good at enforcing Canadian court orders for custody and access for minor children whom are BORN CITIZENS of Canada.. Despite the nonsense you may hear from others on this site whom have no understanding of what is involved in Parental Child Abduction....

See these threads for additional clarification on what defines "habitual residential location":

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f3/moving-child-case-law-habitual-residence-14033/

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f3/mobility-applications-child-centred-approach-15431/

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f3/more-282-1-283-1-abduction-13523/

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f3/section-283-1-child-abduction-11646/

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f3/habitual-residence-jurisdiction-forum-shoping-12010/

(Just as a start to help you understand this rather complex concept in custody and access laws.)

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
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Tayken said:
It is highly doubtful that the other parent would be at all successful in bringing an application for custody and access of the child in question in Australia after a 2 month "visit" while completing their education there. Claiming refugee status in Australia is not easy for a Canadian and applying for a visa while still married requires the disclosure of the relationship and they will ask about the consent from the other parent for any documentation they issue for a minor child.

You have very little to worry about regarding the trip in my personal opinion...

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Unfortunately your reassurances are likely incorrect when it is due to education of physicians.

When we were in the US just for clinical rotations (still considered a part of school), our entire family was given US Visas. We lived and travelled freely throughout Canada and the US. My ex was actively recruited to stay in the US. They would have taken care of any immigration issues.

As the OP's wife is in residency, she is already working in Australia. She already has housing and a job. It does not take much for a hospital to apply to have a resident continue on to a permanent full time position. Has she stayed there before? After even a short residency, she would have access to contacts in the hospital who could help with the process of applying to stay in Australia by offering her a well paying, permanent job. A physician is often a wanted commodity in foreign hospitals.

What if she adores it and decides to stay? By leaving the child there, it seems to me he is saying he agrees with the decision that the child should be in Australia.
 
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Tayken said:
Australia is also very good at enforcing Canadian court orders for custody and access for minor children whom are BORN CITIZENS of Canada.. Despite the nonsense you may hear from others on this site whom have no understanding of what is involved in Parental Child Abduction....

Good Luck!
Tayken
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LOL. Tayken just admit you read my post and severely edited your own. See my quote from you in an above post that has the original statement you made. Hilarious that you keep to the facade that I am on your ignore list. Ridiculous, really.

I've been through the process that the OP is in. Have you?

At least in the US, with a temporary VISA, we HAD access to State provided health care. My daughter broke her arm there. We were considered US residents (not citizens, but US residents) and qualified for many US government programs. Our kids attended the local public school. So you are definitely wrong about that. Her Visa will likely give her residential status and will include her child in that event.

As far as the rest of your comments, I don't have the time or energy to discuss issues with someone who passively posts about things he "pretends" not to read. If you have something to say to me, just say it.

It isn't abduction if he takes the boy there and leaves.

In any event, why risk it?
 
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