being denied travel and vacation

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billiechic

New member
I am looking for some advice on a vacation request that is being denied/held up.

We have a court order that gives each of us 1 week of time in the summer, and allows us to travel outside of Canada with written consent.

In April I requested a specific week to take my child on vacation to Disneyland. I sent a written request, it followed all the rules in our court order. He argued for months but finally gave me consent via text (and verbally) in June. Following this I purchase the flight and booked a hotel. Now, 4 weeks before the vacation he is refusing to sign the travel consent letter, even though I recorded a conversation 2 weeks ago where he agreed to go sign the papers at the lawyer. He claims it is unfair for me to take our daughter away so he can’t see her on her birthday. I have arranged to be at Disney on her birthday, and since we are returning the next day he could potentially see her the following day.

I have been debating for a while to go back to court. It has been 5 years and there are still a LOT of problems, including parental alienation and aggressive parenting on his part.

However, this vacation is the first thing that needs to be dealt with. I have the basis to prove he is intentionally holding up our plans but I don’t know what I need to do/what to file (motion? Contempt?) in order to get permission to go. Thanks for the help!
 
billiechic said:
I am looking for some advice on a vacation request that is being denied/held up.

We have a court order that gives each of us 1 week of time in the summer, and allows us to travel outside of Canada with written consent.

In April I requested a specific week to take my child on vacation to Disneyland. I sent a written request, it followed all the rules in our court order. He argued for months but finally gave me consent via text (and verbally) in June. Following this I purchase the flight and booked a hotel. Now, 4 weeks before the vacation he is refusing to sign the travel consent letter, even though I recorded a conversation 2 weeks ago where he agreed to go sign the papers at the lawyer. He claims it is unfair for me to take our daughter away so he can’t see her on her birthday. I have arranged to be at Disney on her birthday, and since we are returning the next day he could potentially see her the following day.

I have been debating for a while to go back to court. It has been 5 years and there are still a LOT of problems, including parental alienation and aggressive parenting on his part.

However, this vacation is the first thing that needs to be dealt with. I have the basis to prove he is intentionally holding up our plans but I don’t know what I need to do/what to file (motion? Contempt?) in order to get permission to go. Thanks for the help!
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File a motion asking that his consent not be required to travel.

Along with the paperwork send him the letter to sign as an "offer to settle"
 
Yes, I agree that is the proper way to deal with this. However I'm not sure there is time for it to be dealt with in court. Neither of us has a lawyer right now (and I hope not to ever again!)

Are there any other options? I do think the offer is a good idea, however he will NOT sign one. I have sent many offers previously and he would rather waste the court's time even though what he ends up agreeing to in the long run is often exactly what I offered from the start.
 
billiechic said:
Yes, I agree that is the proper way to deal with this. However I'm not sure there is time for it to be dealt with in court. Neither of us has a lawyer right now (and I hope not to ever again!)

Are there any other options? I do think the offer is a good idea, however he will NOT sign one. I have sent many offers previously and he would rather waste the court's time even though what he ends up agreeing to in the long run is often exactly what I offered from the start.
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You could remind him that you will be seeking costs.

You have 4 options

1. Cancel the trip
2. Take the kids without consent (I have never been asked for the paper at the border yet, but others have... It's a risk you take)
3. Get him to sign without court
4. Take him to court
 
I can't cancel the trip. I am going to conference and piggybacking it into a vacation. I would have to go without her :(

I would not take her without consent. It would eat my child alive to think she betrayed her dad and he WOULD send the police to the airport and then file. I HAVE consent (written and verbal in a recording, just not the signed paper)

I have given him until Wednesday at 6pm to sign the papers. They are already at the lawyers waiting to be notarized if/when he shows up. I have told him that if they are not signed by then that I will be filing a motion on Thursday.

So would I file a motion for contempt? Would this give me an order to go on the trip? or do I file a motion requesting an order? Can they be done in the same motion? Should I include all the other issues I want resolved or just stick to this one issue? I don't want to keep filing motions but there are several things that need to be dealt with.
Argghhhh!
 
billiechic said:
I can't cancel the trip. I am going to conference and piggybacking it into a vacation. I would have to go without her :(

I would not take her without consent. It would eat my child alive to think she betrayed her dad and he WOULD send the police to the airport and then file. I HAVE consent (written and verbal in a recording, just not the signed paper)

I have given him until Wednesday at 6pm to sign the papers. They are already at the lawyers waiting to be notarized if/when he shows up. I have told him that if they are not signed by then that I will be filing a motion on Thursday.

So would I file a motion for contempt? Would this give me an order to go on the trip? or do I file a motion requesting an order? Can they be done in the same motion? Should I include all the other issues I want resolved or just stick to this one issue? I don't want to keep filing motions but there are several things that need to be dealt with.
Argghhhh!
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I believe it would be a motion to change.

You are asking that your previous orders be changed to state that you no longer require his consent to travel.
 
its an emergency motion based on previous approval… seek costs and failing that a refund of the money to cancel the trip for all parties involved (option A, option b) he can withhold his permission to travel but since he's already provided approval he's going to be on the hook financially for doing so… we had someone try this last year and when faced with a cottage cancellation fee (100% and not cheap) because of their flip flip they changed their mind.
 
He claims it is unfair for me to take our daughter away so he can’t see her on her birthday. I have arranged to be at Disney on her birthday, and since we are returning the next day he could potentially see her the following day.
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This is the basis of his argument?
Tell him he can have a skype call with her that night and that he is making her miss a BIRTHDAY in disneyland - like what kid wouldn't want that!!!!
 
Costs would not amount to much (Self rep). After scrimping for this trip I don't have the money to fork out a retainer fee :(

I would seek a refund of the trip, as I waited for approval before going ahead with purchasing anything. And I would just seek costs for my daughter and myself, as my sister and her husband WILL go without us since this is a business conference. Still means I will seek half the hotel costs. We were sharing a suite :(

So if I want to file the emergency motion what do I do? PLEASE HELP!
 
Doing some reading and it seems this would not be grounds for an emergency motion, but for an urgent motion given that time is of the essence.

Still looking for info.
 
Links17 said:
This is the basis of his argument?
Tell him he can have a skype call with her that night and that he is making her miss a BIRTHDAY in disneyland - like what kid wouldn't want that!!!!
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Hmmm...to take an impartial stance here, and not knowing what kind of access-custody arrangement the parties have....

The issue here seem to hinge on the 1 day (the child's bday). The ex is pissed because he won't get to be in the presence of the child, and am sure a lot of us parents can sort of feel this?

Also, why is it that the OP book this period that includes this special day to go to Disney, and not the week before, or after???? This might have alleviated this potential drama and legal costs

Could this be a form of alienation that the OP inronically speaks of in their post i.e. a payback?????

Most separation agreements (civil ones) will state

1. kid(s) spends either parents bday with that parent regardless of who has the kid(s)
2. On kids bday, both parents are welcome to attend held at a neutral location regardless of who has the kids

So I know everyone is saying "bring a motion" and all that, and yes the ex might have allegedly (read: we don't know for sure) agreed to a consent, all we have is a he said, she said

NOTE: Everyone should go to Disney at some point in their life, be it in California, Orlando or in Paris. However, it's just as magical on anyday as it would be if it was your bday.

I mean as parents, we have had bdays for our kids on days that isn't their exact bday for one reason or another haven't we?
 
OP has stated the vacation was planned following a work conference, the timing was not chosen by them but taking advantage of being there anyways. The other parent can quite easily be accommodated via Skype or face time on the day of amd see the child within 24-48 hours when they return.

Knowing the OP and her situation, this is most definitely not a case of retaliation.

Do you have any helpful suggestions to move things forward re: obtaining travel consent?
 
blinkandimgone said:
OP has stated the vacation was planned following a work conference, the timing was not chosen by them but taking advantage of being there anyways. The other parent can quite easily be accommodated via Skype or face time on the day of amd see the child within 24-48 hours when they return.

Knowing the OP and her situation, this is most definitely not a case of retaliation.

Do you have any helpful suggestions to move things forward re: obtaining travel consent?
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Maybe you could offer to make sure that he has the child on her birthday next year?
 
blinkandimgone said:
OP has stated the vacation was planned following a work conference, the timing was not chosen by them but taking advantage of being there anyways. The other parent can quite easily be accommodated via Skype or face time on the day of amd see the child within 24-48 hours when they return.

Knowing the OP and her situation, this is most definitely not a case of retaliation.

Do you have any helpful suggestions to move things forward re: obtaining travel consent?
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If indeed "it's not a case of retaliation", then the OP should for the sake of the daughter having a magical bday, be the reasonable one, and batter with the ex in this particular situation......going all guns blazing with motion is hardly the solution.

As the immediate response above suggests offer the other party something, if indeed it's all in the spirit of having a Disney bday

Case closed
 
I also noticed the issue with the birthday, and the ex wanting to spend time with the child.

My only question would be, what does the agreement provide with regards to the kids birthday? Does it state that each parent shall get some time to see the child on the child's birthday? Or is it like mine, where the birthday is treated just like another day for the parenting time schedule?

IMO, the ex will likely lose bad should there be a need for court. But lets hope they come to their senses.
 
If the ex refuses all offers, there really isn't any other recourse for the OP, especially given that it is in their order, and he has already given his consent verbally and via text when this trip was in the planning stages.
 
The dates are not, and never were negotiable. I am going for a work conference Aug 22-26th and am adding an extra couple days so we can go to Disney. The trip would not be in my budget if there was no conference.

He did bring up going before the conference so he could see her the day AFTER her birthday, but then agreed later that this timeline would be fine. So he KNEW this would be the situation from the beginning.

Our order does not deal with birthdays. It was discussed during mediation however this was dropped and never made it into the order or agreement. We share 50/50 on a 2-2-5-5 schedule so we both see her all the time.

I am of course willing to have him Skype her. it would be a problem on her birthday though, since we WILL be at Disney. But anytime during the vacation and a phone call on her birthday are a given.

I am just trying to take my kid to Disney. There is no bad intent on my part. There is no cooperation on his part; he is manipulative and has taken 4 months to "decide" if our daughter can go on a family vacation. It's not even during the school year. So I ask you..what valid reason could he have for saying no and taking THIS LONG to agree??
 
billiechic said:
The dates are not, and never were negotiable. I am going for a work conference Aug 22-26th and am adding an extra couple days so we can go to Disney. The trip would not be in my budget if there was no conference.

He did bring up going before the conference so he could see her the day AFTER her birthday, but then agreed later that this timeline would be fine. So he KNEW this would be the situation from the beginning.

Our order does not deal with birthdays. It was discussed during mediation however this was dropped and never made it into the order or agreement. We share 50/50 on a 2-2-5-5 schedule so we both see her all the time.

I am of course willing to have him Skype her. it would be a problem on her birthday though, since we WILL be at Disney. But anytime during the vacation and a phone call on her birthday are a given.

I am just trying to take my kid to Disney. There is no bad intent on my part. There is no cooperation on his part; he is manipulative and has taken 4 months to "decide" if our daughter can go on a family vacation. It's not even during the school year. So I ask you..what valid reason could he have for saying no and taking THIS LONG to agree??
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He doesn't have one, he is being unreasonable.

My ex tried to do the same to me. Our DRO at our case conference (not scheduled for this purpose) told her that she was being unreasonable (my kids were missing school).

Send him a very stern letter.

Tell him he agreed on xyz date, you booked on xyz date. Should he not attend your lawyers to sign the papers by xyz date you will have no choice but to take him to court seeking an order to have his permission waived and you will be seeking costs.
 
OP...obviously this is now a lessons learned for you and others that might choose to ignore covering all your bases when it comes to a separation agreement.

What we know thus far: This trip (the Disney part) is in the child's best interest, and yes it can be argued that the ex is being a tool about it. :rolleyes:

Additionally, you have have admitted this

The dates are not, and never were negotiable. I am going for a work conference Aug 22-26th and am adding an extra couple days so we can go to Disney. The trip would not be in my budget if there was no conference.

He did bring up going before the conference so he could see her the day AFTER her birthday, but then agreed later that this timeline would be fine. So he KNEW this would be the situation from the beginning.
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Again....based on what you wrote here in the last paragraph above, your ex seems to be going back on his words. :rolleyes:

However, it behooves you now once you get back from this trip...which should happen regardless, that you take care of this portion of the problem below:

Our order does not deal with birthdays. It was discussed during mediation however this was dropped and never made it into the order or agreement. We share 50/50 on a 2-2-5-5 schedule so we both see her all the time.
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Those of us with shared custody, operate the 2-2-5-5, and it includes birthdays, summer holiday, father/mother's day, kid's birthday, easter, etc...you get the gist

You probably didn't mean it as this came across in your writing......but this doesn't sound right

I am of course willing to have him Skype her.
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Regardless of who' parenting time it is with the kid wherever you are on the globe...if kid says they want to speak to the other parent, you should honour that request without any personal agenda coming between the kid and the other parent! I am sure any Judge will concur
 
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