Are clothing expenses part of child support?

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LifeMovesOn

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My ex and I have recently separated and we share our childrens' custody 50/50. Because I earn a higher income, I am paying $700 in monthly child support to my ex based on the federal child support guidelines. Should she be expected to buy the childrens' clothing from the child support monies she is receiving? She is claiming that clothing is an extraordinary expense. I disagree.
 
no, clothing is not an extraordinary expense, it is included in child support.
Is the money you pay for CS the difference in what you would each pay? If that is the case you are each expected to contribute to clothing expenses equally.Some parents each provide a set of clothes at their own homes, or if you can share clothes it would be less costly.
 
Yes, the CS I pay is the net difference we would both pay each other. Extraordinary expenses are paid based on our prorated incomes....60/40.
So we should be sharing the clothing expenses 50/50?
 
LifeMovesOn said:
Yes, the CS I pay is the net difference we would both pay each other. Extraordinary expenses are paid based on our prorated incomes....60/40.
So we should be sharing the clothing expenses 50/50?
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You are paying child support every month and that money is for "day-to-day" expenses. I had to have the same conversation with my ex; the rationale that I used was "do you wear clothes every day?" Answer was yes...so, your support money should be used towards clothing.

Obviously it is a good idea to have some clothes for your child at your place, but, I would think that anything larger and expensive eg. shoes, winter coats/snow pants etc. could be transported back and forth. Reality is that you pay your support money and the court has deemed the receiving parent responsible enough to decide how it is spent. Any clothing that your ex purchases for your child, you have already contributed to.
 
LifeMovesOn said:
My ex and I have recently separated and we share our childrens' custody 50/50. Because I earn a higher income, I am paying $700 in monthly child support to my ex based on the federal child support guidelines. Should she be expected to buy the childrens' clothing from the child support monies she is receiving? She is claiming that clothing is an extraordinary expense. I disagree.
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Sorry - question for you - when you say custody is split 50/50, are you referring to physical custody? Eg. the children spend half of their time with both parents?

I only ask because that seems like a very high amount of child support if you have the children half the time. If you do have the children half of the time, you probably shouldn't be paying the table child support amounts.

Friends of mine have a shared custody arrangement. Essentially, they operate on the "whatever I spend when they're with me, I spend and whatever you spend when they're with you, you spend" principle. Nobody is paying child support but, they do split clothing costs...everything 50/50 and they go through receipts together every month. to remiburse each other if necessary.

It seems unfair to expect that one would pay child support and then contribute to the cost of clothing on top of that....kinda burning the candle at both ends if you ask me.
 
Agree with the others. Clothing is part of CS.

Are you also paying spousal support? Have you signed a formal separation agreement? If not, are your Net Disposable Incomes close? For sake of argument, if she has say 45% of NDI, then I would argue, which I successfully did, that since you have the children 50/50 that extraordinary expenses be paid based on the NDI ratio not gross income ratio. It's only fair (not that fair has anything to do with family law!).

I too have 50/50, pay tabled offset CS, and, due to major salary difference pay SS. I pay extraordiary expenses at the NDI ratio, not at the gross salary ratio.
 
HatesCheaters - can you explain what gross salary and NDI ratios are?

Also I have a question concerning support - there are two issues with custody - physical location and decision making - which one is support based on? If I have the right to make all the decisions but we share physical custody 50/50 do I pay CS to my ex?

It's so confusing!
 
NDI is net discretionary income. "Discretionary" usually means what you have left over after necessities in your budget. Discretionary income in this case means the amount after deducting your payments of support. Paying extraordinary expenses at NDI would mean that you subtract the child support payments of the payer and add them to the receiver and then figure out the proportion of expenses each pays. That isn't an automatic deal.

"Gross salary" is what you earn before you make any support payments. The term usually refers to line 150 on the tax return, before any personal deductions are claimed. Usually the special expenses would be split according to this.

"Custody" in Ontario means decision making but the term sometimes is also used to mean where the child lives, like in the income tax help guide they refer to shared and split custody. This gets confusing.

Decision making has nothing to do with child support. The child support is calculated according to how much each parents earns. If the child lives within the range of 60/40 with each parent, it's considered 50/50 and each parent is calculated to pay the other parent. The amount paid is the difference between what you would pay and what your ex would pay.
 
NoahsDaddy said:
You are paying child support every month and that money is for "day-to-day" expenses. I had to have the same conversation with my ex; the rationale that I used was "do you wear clothes every day?" Answer was yes...so, your support money should be used towards clothing.
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Very well put, ND! :-)

My stepson's mom also tried to argue that we should contribute to clothes... and for years we had to buy the child clothes (she would refuse to send clothes with the child for visits). It wasn't until my husband brought the issue up in court that the judge told her that child support pays for clothing and that it is her responsibility to provide clothing with the child for visits and vacations. You should have seen the look of horror on her face! (Sorry... no more Carribean vacations twice a year!)
 
Sorry to bump an old thread but...

Sorry to bump an old thread but...

Is there anything in the Guidelines that can clearly demonstrate that clothing and what is considered clothing (snow suits etc) is not an extraordinary expense?

Recently our order got revised and I am now paying CS based on our split incomes because we now have 50/50 access.

My X is now asking/demanding that I pay half of all expenses (ie schooling supplies, clothing etc).

Most recently she's saying if I don't pay half of a snow suit and boot that she'll pick up the suit and boots at school before I pick her up and I'll have to supply my own.

I've told her that CS covers day-to-day stuff but she won't agree/comply to cover the costs. It's not really about the $$ as I'll probably pay for a portion anyway, but she seems to take a mile when I give an inch and would like to stop this before I'm paying for everything (again).
 
The CS guidelines state what is extraordinary (ie Section 7).

Clothing including snow suits is absolutely covered by CS.

You pay offset CS, you have the kids equally. Therefore you have balanced the money in both homes for raising the kids.

So, for all CS covered expenses that are not specifically to do with one house (such as clothing, school trips, allowance, etc) you should split 50/50.

You can do this by sharing receipts, having a joint bank account (but still use receipts), or by assuming that you are both spending about the same on these shared expenses.

I prefer sharing receipts, that way I don't have to go to the mall as much - my ex can buy the clothes and all I have to do is pay my half! We are thinking about creating a shared bank account where we always contribute the same amount and a few other rules - I'm a little worried about it, but its worth a try.
 
CatvsLion said:
Most recently she's saying if I don't pay half of a snow suit and boot that she'll pick up the suit and boots at school before I pick her up and I'll have to supply my own.
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As Billm already noted, clothing is covered with the child support you pay.

So no, you should not have to pay her half of the snow-suit/boots - that's what child support is for. One could argue, you could just pay it, to avoid the hassle, and keep her happy, but I'm guessing that would be short-lived, if your ex actually says things like she's going to remove the boots/snow suit from school. (rolling my eyes).

FYI, in case you want to pick up extras for your household, or "spares", the 2nd hand stores are great for finding cheap clothes, for smaller kids. You could likely pickup an extra snow-suit very cheap there.
 
dad2bandm said:
As Billm already noted, clothing is covered with the child support you pay.

So no, you should not have to pay her half of the snow-suit/boots - that's what child support is for. ...
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I prefer to say that you DO have to pay her for half of clothing as that does not have anything to do with her house or your house. It is not fair for one parent to spend more than the other if you have 50/50 and are using the offset CS method.

However, she has to pay you as well for what you buy that is not just for your house.

So you ether pay each other or assume that you are both spending equally after balancing support money in each house via offset CS.
 
Agree with billm.

With 50-50, the assumption is that both households will spend THE SAME amount on child-related expenses. e.g. clothing, shelter, food, recreation. However, the purpose of the offset payment is for the higher earner to subsidize the lower earner. Both parents should be showing about the same amount of purchases for the child.

All these people who are saying that clothing is included in the CS paid ... just think about the situation where the offset CS payment is very small because the parents' incomes are close. Does that mean only a teeny amount of money is spent on clothes? No - that would be absurd (kind of like the assumption that the 39% parent spends $0 on the child).

However ... the bulk of kid expenses are specific to the household
- food, shelter (portion of mortgage/property tax/insurane/maintenance etc), transportation (portion of car loan, gas, insurance etc), vacation, computer, school supplies. So each parent just pays there own share of these.

Clothing is one area that can vary widely e.g. one parent might tend to buy the bulk of clothing, and distribute it between the households, and the other parent would pay 50% of it. Or maybe not i.e. each parent is buying their own set of clothing.

A few things there might or might not be only be one of, depending on how 'intermingled' the houses are e.g. phone, musical instrument, sports equipment. If there's only one, then share the cost if the other parent wants to have the use of it at their house too.
 
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What is one to do when one parent received full CS but refuses to buy winter clothing?

For the past 2 winters bf or I had to buy the children both new winter snow suits, boots and mittens because Mom says she could not afford it. This winter, my parents purchased the children these items because this past weekend only S7 came in boots, but refused to wear them because there was a large tag on the inside of the boot that rubbed against his leg (not able to remove).

Mom receives full CS and claims she has no money to purchase these items and if we want the children to have new items then we had to purchase them. Similar situation in the summer months.

We provide a full wardrobe here for the children (mom didn't always want to have to pack a bag, it was just more convenient for everyone) but for items such as snow suits, boots, bathing suits etc, is there really a point on them having two sets? One set should be all that is needed but Mom does not feel she should have to provide them.

How do you really force a parent who receives full CS to purchase these items when they are unwilling too?
 
billm said:
So you ether pay each other or assume that you are both spending equally after balancing support money in each house via offset CS.
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Easiest way to do it for cloths is that you both have your own, you both buy your own becuase you share the child 50/50. You only need half the amount of cloths and they are the childs cloths, not either of the parents.

For snow suits, etc, easiest to say "I purchased one for when he is here, so we both have one, no need to split the costs, we both buy our own".

Plus you might pay $10 for a snow suit from used clothing store, other parent might pay $100. Why should one parent have to pay 10x more because the other parent wasn't a 'smart' shopper.
 
Canadaguy said:
For snow suits, etc, easiest to say "I purchased one for when he is here, so we both have one, no need to split the costs, we both buy our own".

Plus you might pay $10 for a snow suit from used clothing store, other parent might pay $100. Why should one parent have to pay 10x more because the other parent wasn't a 'smart' shopper.
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Huh? How could this possibly work, other than to stress out the child about which snow stuff he is supposed to wear where.

First, a child does not need two snow suits.

Second, do you make the child change snow suits/boots before go to the other house? Make him take off the snow suite when you drop him off? Total parent insanity.

If the other parent receives full CS and they don't buy enough clothes, then buy at whatever price point you want (used or new).

In a shared CS situation where you both should pay for the clothes, and the other does not, same thing - at whatever price point you want (used or new).

Either way, the clothes are the child's and they should (and do in my case) flow freely between houses. If there is a problem with that then the parents should figure it out (independently or together) and leave the child out of it!
 
I think what Canada guy is attempting to say is if one parent decides to shop at a thrift store and picks up a snow suit for $10 and the other parent decides they want brand new and spends $100, why should the thrifty shopper have to spend more when they are okay with the $10 suit.

His math is off because rarely is one parent solely responsible for 100% of S7 expenses but in a 50-50 arrangement it can be assume both parents pay half of all clothing, meaning if non thrifty shopper buys the $100 suit, thrifty shopper would actually be paying 50% more than they planned ($50 compared to the $10 if both parents bought their own clothing)
 
billm said:
Huh? How could this possibly work, other than to stress out the child about which snow stuff he is supposed to wear where.
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Child goes in closet, picks out snow suit and wears it...not sure how having two different ones to pick from could stress a kid out. Oh my god! I can't decided, should I wear the green one or the blue one! Too many decisions, life is hard.

...(hahaha...actually that sounded like how my ex is lol)

Works great in shared custody situation because one suit travels with the kid and the other is avaiable for when a dry one is needed or the child just wants to wear something different. My kid has 3, and for $30 total you can't beat that price.

billm said:
Second, do you make the child change snow suits/boots before go to the other house? Make him take off the snow suite when you drop him off? Total parent insanity.
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Yes, that would be parent insanity. Drop the kid off with the suit as it belongs to the child and travels with the child. The child will bring it back to your place (or another suit that the child owns) next visit/access time/etc.

billm said:
If the other parent receives full CS and they don't buy enough clothes, then buy at whatever price point you want (used or new).

In a shared CS situation where you both should pay for the clothes, and the other does not, same thing - at whatever price point you want (used or new).

Either way, the clothes are the child's and they should (and do in my case) flow freely between houses. If there is a problem with that then the parents should figure it out (independently or together) and leave the child out of it!
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Agreed.
 
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