Appeals to get out of court costs

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

Greatmum

New member
Hello community, I was awarded sole custody At trial in June. I offered a couple offers to settle but ex was cocky and thought he would get everything he wanted. That did not happen.

Now he is sending letters ( we are still within 30 days) stating that the following conditions must be met in order for him not to appeal, including capping court costs and agreeing to a different access schedule.

My lawyer fears he does not have any money and by appealing, it's his way to get out of paying me. I incur more costs and at the end of the day, he can simply claim bankruptcy, therefore not paying my huge court bill.

Questions are...why do we allow this, shouldn't court costs be paid first, this is a burden to taxpayers and to me who has done nothing wrong...any suggestions what I can do? This man is a bully and is only in it to win.

Thank you for your reply,
 
Greatmum said:
My lawyer fears he does not have any money and by appealing, it's his way to get out of paying me. I incur more costs and at the end of the day, he can simply claim bankruptcy, therefore not paying my huge court bill.
Click to expand...
I am in no way a lawyer or wannabe but that kind of interesting theory. To do appeal you need a lot of money. The biggest I think is transcript from actual trial. From what I know it estimated 400/hour.

Also keep in mind that appeal are extremely brutal process in terms of paperwork and timeline. It also very seldom to fly as you basically can only get it of judge made an error in the law or there are serious mishandling of evidence.

So if he does not have money appeal is very unlikely to happened, just blowing an air. IMHO.

WD
 
^agree with WD. Has to be an error in law for him to be successful in his appeal. Unless he has alot of diposable cash kicking around he likely won't do anything once his lawyer asks for a big fat retainer to appeal.

Some people always have to "be right" - I believe blink has a thread that she put up recently on the forum. That thread might be of interest to you.
 
Thank you Arabian and WD. I felt so backed in a corner Friday I could not sleep all weekend. I will review right-fighter's thread...much appreciate, thanks for the time to reply :)
 
At the top of your screen select "main category". The select "general chat" and you will see RIGHT FIGHTER syndrome on there.
 
Greatmum said:
Questions are...why do we allow this, shouldn't court costs be paid first, this is a burden to taxpayers and to me who has done nothing wrong...any suggestions what I can do? This man is a bully and is only in it to win.

Thank you for your reply,
Click to expand...

Taxpayers won't be paying your court bill. If your ex doesn't pay, your lawyer will be looking to you.
 
Exactly, so ex doesn't pay my court costs from this trial as awared, tries to appeal and then when has to pay more of my costs he will just claim bankruptcy....his lawyers will be out, il be out...doesn't seem just considering.
 
I think you misunderstand me. Your lawyer was retained by you, and you have an account with him. Whether the court ordered your ex to pay it or not; whether the ex declares bankruptcy or not, at the end of the day, that account is on you.

eta: Sorry - just re-read your post. If his lawyers have any sense, they won't be doing an appeal on his behalf. If they haven't been paid yet or have enough of a retainer to cover their own past court costs, they won't continue working for a probable/possible bankrupt either.
 
Last edited:
@working dad....I would assume the transcripts were split amongst both parties. They were requested first day of trial. However I know we got some sort of "deal" so they were cheaper, I'm not sure if the output of them were cheaper, it was a 12 day trial so lots of transcripts.....
 
Greatmum said:
Hello community, I was awarded sole custody At trial in June. I offered a couple offers to settle but ex was cocky and thought he would get everything he wanted. That did not happen.

Now he is sending letters ( we are still within 30 days) stating that the following conditions must be met in order for him not to appeal, including capping court costs and agreeing to a different access schedule.

My lawyer fears he does not have any money and by appealing, it's his way to get out of paying me. I incur more costs and at the end of the day, he can simply claim bankruptcy, therefore not paying my huge court bill.

Questions are...why do we allow this, shouldn't court costs be paid first, this is a burden to taxpayers and to me who has done nothing wrong...any suggestions what I can do? This man is a bully and is only in it to win.

Thank you for your reply,
Click to expand...

Appeals are threatened every day in family law matters... They never happen and rarely do. If only 10% of matters go to trial... Only 0.1% of the 10% that do go to trial ever make it to appeal probably.

You can ignore the threats of an appeal. The paperwork (as described by WD) is an incredible nightmare to compile. Also there has to be an error in judgement / law. Not something the average regular "unrepresented" party can do. Even the top lawyers can't even get the paperwork together for an appeal.

I would keep the threats of the appeal for future issues that will evolve. If you are dealing with a highly conflicted litigant after the appeal time moves past they will "hunt" out a "material change in circumstance" to re-open the can of worms.

It is easier to establish prima facia for a material change in circumstance than an appeal.
 
Thank you for taking the time to reply. So I think his letter stating he's been in contact with a "Toronto lawyer" ( not sure if that makes it look more serious being as the lawyer is from Toronto) or his demands are hot air, trying to bully me into some sort of schedule.

I really appreciate the time responding....
 
Why did the Judge order transcripts during/after trial?

I didn't order my transcript, but 2.5 days of Trial was approx 6k, if I did want it. No Thanks :/

Appeals are very costly and time consuming. They rarely happen in Family Court. Should he file an appeal (no guarantee on the success of it) all orders still stand. There's no "break" or reprieve given to the (applicant) appellant. My ex threatened to "appeal" as well. It didn't happen.

I can understand the fear of his filing for bankruptcy, and only too well. Has he told you that he will resort to that? (Preferably in an email). Does he have any assets? Contact the OSB (Office of the Superintendent of Bankruptcy) and ask a bankruptcy analyst for info re: persons who file bankruptcy to avoid paying court ordered costs: Home - Office of the Superintendent of Bankruptcy Canada
 
Agree w/all of the appeal info provided. Yes I believe he specified "Toronto" lawyer (surprised he didn't say "Bay Street" ;)) for more "effect."

If you need to speak to an excellent Bankruptcy Lawyer (and yeah, he's in Toronto and on BAY Street) PM me and I'll send you his contact info.
 
Judge requested them the afternoon of day one....perhaps he didn't want to take notes? Not sure what the theory was?
 
Greatmum said:
Thank you for taking the time to reply. So I think his letter stating he's been in contact with a "Toronto lawyer" ( not sure if that makes it look more serious being as the lawyer is from Toronto) or his demands are hot air, trying to bully me into some sort of schedule.

I really appreciate the time responding....
Click to expand...

Simple response:

Please have your "Toronto lawyer" contact my solicitor of record to discuss the matter. As we currently have a court order I kindly ask that you abide by the court order until such time it is changed by a court of competent jurisdiction.

Key point about "friends", "Toronto lawyers" and other unidentified parties in any legal matter. Highly conflicted people often write affdiavits that state "my friend" and provide no make. My friend will testify that the Respondent is a horrible and deplorable person. Yet, they never give a name despite the requirement in the Rules to do so.

Same thing with the "expert" or "Toronto Lawyer". Generally they don't exist and are a delusional element to their cognative dysfunction. Challenge the person for the name so you can provide it to your lawyer. In fact, have your lawyer write to the other side stating:

I have been informed that you have retained counsel. Please advise your new counsel of my contact information so that we can become acquainted and resolve any outstanding matters. Blah blah blah... etc...

One prime example of a personality that came to this board and pulled these classic stunts is Patty60:

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f7/grandparents-denied-access-11615/
http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f12/grandparents-family-disputes-10638/

This highly conflicted poster even went so far as to say they were:

1. Doing things before the court that is technically impossible.
2. Writing a book about it all.
3. Changing law as it stands and setting new precedent.
4. The primary care provider for their daughter's children and therefor should have access and custody.
5. Couldn't even keep simple elements of their "argument" they were presenting to court together and easily taken apart by responders to the stupidity they were posting.

If what you are getting from the other party in the appeal reads anything like the rhetoric of Patty60 it is highly likely you may possibly be dealing with someone suffering from an un-diagnosed Axis II Disorder of the Personality. Someone in the Cluster "B" zone (borderline, narcissistic, etc...)

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Are costs orders ever enforced by FRO/MEP as an "amount" attached to the CS/SS order, and if so, how?

My lawyer's costs have been unpaid (well past the 6 months ex was given) by the Courts for the Respondent Father (ex). The lawyer is filing an 'over the counter 14B motion' and hopes that it will not necessitate a court appearance. I haven't actually spoken to Lawyer, I rec'd above (14B) info in a recent email. He has 30+ years experience so I assume he knows what he's doing, but I am unclear as to how this is supposed to 'work.' Any translations?? As well, perhaps the OP of this post may find the 14B motion of use in her matter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top