after shcool reading class as extraordinary expense

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well we are just going through the courts now have been since april and nothing has been settled as of yet..she just keeps throwing all kinds of reciepts at me and says pay it.. i have done alot of researching on this and i think i know what is extra or not!
i will keep everything in mind of what is being said. thanks.
 
rszalai said:
Yes tug, you are right form the financial standpoint. I know our daughter is benefiting tremendously from the reading classes she is taking. It is just painful that her mother is not working and still doesn't have time to do the extra curriculum with her. I offered to help her, and I'm not allowed to. :( Instead she is taking her to somewhere for the reading lessons.
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Somewhere? Why don't you find out where? Is she not wanting to share the info? I don't know much of your story, your set access etc, pm me if you would like.
What are your lines of communication like? It could just be a number of reasons for what your ex is doing besides just being vindictive.

I don't know what to say other than your daughter is benefiting from it, you have seen the difference, so trying to change it now will make you look selfish.
 
"Tug,
Unfortunately not all people are reasonable, and have no interest in being "fair". Vindictiveness rules sometimes! That's why we are here on this board."

And see this is where I agree AND disagree with you.

EVERYONE here comes with different backgrounds/expectations/experiences.

BOTTOM LINE for EVERYONE (custodial & non-custodial parents alike) shoud be what is BEST for the kids'. Then the $$$ factor comes into play & all hell breaks loose.

Bottom line is ... what did she earn during your marriage? $0 (because she stayed at home with the kids' or $30,000 in a clerical job)? What did YOU earn?

I deplore anyone (man/woman) who when in a crappy situation such as a divorce/separation suddenly "can't" work ...

If she always earned a $25,000 income and you've earned $60,000 then YES I feel your being petty and vindictive. If however, she had a $60,000 yr job as did you and she suddenly met someone and now doesn't work but is expecting you to foot the bill for everything then I find her deporable.

Unfortunately on any of these forums ... we only hear 1 side. Unless we all want to upload every email, every NOA, every nuance of our lives we can only go by what the poster posts'.

If your child needs extra help for reading and the school is recommending it and the cost is $200/mo and you earn $60,000 and she earns $30,000 then yeah you should be paying "approx" 66% of the cost. Such is life. It's not your ex getting one over on you as she's paying as well ... it's what's best for YOUR child.
 
Do you know how long she will need this special reading time? I would look into that if money is somewhat the issue.
 
With all due respect "tugofwar" ... you can't really "predict" something like that ... it's like asking how much is post secondary going to cost when the kids are 5 yrs old. Who the heck knows! They could go into a trade or they could want to become a lawyer (god help us).

I had to spend a relatively small amount ($300) back 4 1/2 yrs ago when THANK GOD a godsend of a teacher saw that my middle son had "issues" and advised that he be tested for a learning disability (in Gr. 3). That was the one and only time in now 8 yrs that my ex attended a school function/meeting. They informed us they believed there was a problem. We could put him on the "free" wait list throught the school system and it was 3-5 yrs before he'd likely be seen or we could do a private assessment. "I" opted on the private assement. I was (am) the primary caregiver. Dad sees/saw them 4 days a month. I KNEW there was a problem. Working full time, coming home to 3 kids' and dealing with one who I could see was floundering and then having the other parent say "I'm not paying for a private assessment" was frustrating/infuriating, etc ...

I decided to go ahead on my own. I paid the $2,100 fee and did the assessment along with our son. I sent my ex a copy of the receipt and my M/C bill, asking him to pay 50%. He refused to pay. I saw my lawyer who drafted a letter, to whom I paid $300, and lo & behold, ex paid up.

There are bad apples on BOTH sides of every equation. It's a sad but true fact of life.

If ex hadn't paid, I'd still be ok knowing that "I" did what was right. My child was stuggling (still is, now in Gr. 8, despite a public school system IEP, but I'm certainly not in a fin'l situation to put him in a private school). And I'm well aware that "I" am one of the "lucky ones" who has remarried and has a spouse who earns a reasonable income and has no problem paying for things for children that aren't even his biologically.
 
Im sure if it was a major learning disorder, both parents would be looking into it more and getting more involvement. If it could be for a few months, 1 year then go from there, then it shouldn't be a money issue.
 
DunnMom said:
If your child needs extra help for reading and the school is recommending it and the cost is $200/mo and you earn $60,000 and she earns $30,000 then yeah you should be paying "approx" 66% of the cost. Such is life. It's not your ex getting one over on you as she's paying as well ... it's what's best for YOUR child.
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What may truly be best for the child may be instead of giving dad a bill to pay for the reading sessions, dad can take on the responsibility of spending this time with her teaching her to read. Works well for lots of reasons, dad isn't footing the bill and it's a great bonding time for them. I know when my kids were still young enough to sit and read with me it was a cherished time for all of us. I think if dad is willing and able to spend the time with her for this and mom won't allow it, dad shouldn't have to deal with the added insult to injury by paying for someone else to spend that time with his kid.

tugofwar said:
Ok, so how many activities can i sign up a toddler in? LOL.
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Circus school! It's all the rage here!
 
1. so what kind of "income" is used by the judges when they need to decide what proportion is used? The gross income (what you actually never see if you are a salaried employee) or the discretionary income, what is the money after paying taxes/necessary costs? (this is what you can actually spend and choose how to spend it?
2. My ex was treated with mental health issues but the treatment went south and in 6 months she ended up worth then when she started. She wants to eliminate any connection between us, so the logical solution which would serve everyone's interest (I would spend one afternoon with our daughter to teach her reading) is squarely rejected. :(
3. The price of the current tutoring is not really an issue, (I'm asked to pay $160, based on the gross income, I want to pay $100 based on the discretionary income) The problem is where it can lead in the near future, like my ex can sign up my daughter to ANY and EVERY classes/activities, not because she enjoys them or needs them, simply because then she can wreak havoc in my finances for a little price to her.
 
In the offer I just sent my ex I asked that any extra expenses exceeding $100 had to be agreed to in writing BEFORE the expense was incurred. If one of us went ahead and enrolled her in something more than $100 without written permission from the other, then that parent would be solely responsible for the expense.

Have you sent the ex an email or letter asking for the assessment or offering to spend the time reading with her yourself? It really does depend on why she is being recommended for this course. If she has a learning disability, then she may need special teaching and that could only come from specialized classes. But as her parent, you have a right to know why she is being sent there.
 
1. no learning disability. She just need a bit of an extra practice
2. of course I offered her that I will teach our daughter.

So it is an expense for sure. It shouldn't have arose, because my ex or me should be able to provide her with the extra learning, so it is likely an unnecessary cost. Anyways, in what proportion we should pay for it? Based on gross income or what???
 
Anyone is free to correct me if I am wrong... but I believe section 7 expenses are shared based on line 150 of the Income Tax Return..(GROSS income, same as what is used for CS calculations).

The courts (unfortunately), don't take your living expenses into consideration.

Now, if the ex is making a claim against you, for a cost that is tax deductible (ie. physical sport), then her tax deduction must be considered when determining the appropriate "share"of the expense.
 
rszalai said:
1. no learning disability. She just need a bit of an extra practice
2. of course I offered her that I will teach our daughter.

So it is an expense for sure. It shouldn't have arose, because my ex or me should be able to provide her with the extra learning, so it is likely an unnecessary cost. Anyways, in what proportion we should pay for it? Based on gross income or what???
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If you really would teach your daughter instead of having her take the reading help, and feel you know enough that you would be competent with it, then I would refuse to pay on those grounds as they are in fact reasonable.

She is denying you access, and forcing you to pay for someone else to be with your daughter.

If you do want the classes, they are a Sect 7 expense and you pay your gross income (aka line 150) in proportion to your ex.

Just make sure you are refusing to pay for the right reasons. Arguing that you shouldn't pay because of other activities she may want you to pay for is NOT a good argument.
 
Thanks for summing it up, this is clear and helpful. I will agree paying for the last 2 month but I will ask the court to give me 1 afternoon access to do the tutoring myself instead of paying somebody else for doing it. I hope this sounds reasonable.
 
In our court order extra stuff had to be discussed first, but she was always racking up the bills and sending them to us. When we did end up in court, the judge wouldn't look at them because she hadn't asked first. That's my husbands order, but it depends on how yours is worded.
 
Hmmm, now I thought the percentage for section 7 was calculated AFTER CS/SS was paid and any subsidies or tax credits were applied, confusing!

This is what FLA says:

Special or extraordinary expenses
3.1 To calculate income for the purpose of determining an amount under section 7 of this Regulation, deduct the support, not including child support, paid to the other parent or spouse and, as applicable, make the following adjustment in respect of universal child care benefits:
(a) deduct benefits that are included to determine the parent or spouse’s total income in the T1 General form issued by the Canada Revenue Agency and that are for a child for whom special or extraordinary expenses are not being requested; or
(b) include benefits that are not included to determine the parent or spouse’s total income in the T1 General form issued by the Canada Revenue Agency and that are received by the parent or spouse for a child for whom special or extraordinary expenses are being requested.
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Family Law Act - O. Reg. 391/97
 
Wow ... I get the fear of getting 'suckered' into paying for a "French Nanny, scuba lessons" thing is if your child actually NEEDS this extra help then there is a reason for that and you and your ex should go half and half. You 'tutoring' her once a week is not likely what she needs. These tutors are trained to teach geared towards how the child learns, honestly it just seems that you do not like handing over anymore money. You referred to your daughter as becoming a foreigner to you, which seems like a super low blow. You can't predict what learning aids a child may need when born but just because your likely not happy with how other parts of your relationship with your daughter are developing, don't take that frustration out on your daughters learning.
 
1. My relationship is developing very negatively with my daughter because I'm denied any meaningful access to her. We will be foreigners in a few years if it goes like this. I know very well, because my father is a foreigner to me too. My mother did to me and to my father exactly what my ex is doing to me and to our daughter.
2. I'm not a teacher by profession, but as an engineer I'm OK with the grade 2 reading/writing/math. With the help of the books you can find in any bookstores I would be able to practice with my daughter effectively what she learns at school. That's true that we would need maybe 3 hours to learn what professional teachers would teach her in just 1 hour, but I think none of us would complain about this time spent together. Except my ex, who does everything to alienate us from each other, and she have me paying for that.
3. My daughter needs the extra help in learning, I'm not questioning that. I would even pay for that (maybe 2/3 or the cost) IF we could have any acceptable access to each other. But denying the access for no reason AND having me paying for somebody else to do what otherwise parents do if they are not busy with their 12 hours work is not acceptable and not reasonable.
 
You know that by refusing to be railroaded by your ex you and your daughter will not be foreigners. All you can do is try and KEEP trying without quiting no matter what. BUT by using that as your excuse now you are mapping out yours and your daughters future already, with thinking like that your fear will be as much at fault as your ex. Don't let the mistakes and hurt from choices your parents made determine how much you fight for your relationship with your daughter.
 
I'm fighting against a kamikaze, who has our daughter with her. :( If I don't fight back, she will destroy me. If I fight back, I will destroy both. :(
 
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