access for teens with jobs

[blinkandimgone]

I think ome thing being overlooked here is that it's not just the NCP giving up time with the kid to facilitate this opportunity for them, CP is also giving up their time with the kid.

 

[Berner_Faith]

I think ome thing being overlooked here is that it's not just the NCP giving up time with the kid to facilitate this opportunity for them, CP is also giving up their time with the kid.

Very good point!

Honestly in my opinion I think it’s rather crappy as a parent to prevent a teen from having a job. Regardless if you’re a CP or NCP... I know we will be faced with this possibility next summer as my step son will be turning 14... we have discussed and we both know that we will most likely not see a ton of him in the summer (we live 1.5 hours away), he most likely won’t be coming for his 2 weeks in July and 2 weeks in August... that’s just how life goes... I mean honestly you stop a 14 maybe 15 year old from working but when they hit 16, good luck trying to force access. A suppose a parent could take it to court but I highly doubt a judge will order a 16 year old go to visits over working. I would hope by the time they reach that age that a parent and child have developed a good relationship that they can work out their own communication and parenting schedules.

FWIW, my brother is 15... he worked all last summer, he worked full time (40 a week) at a restaurant, when he wasn’t working he was hanging out with his friends... honestly my parents were lucky if they saw him for an hour a day... some times they went a couple days without seeing him because he worked with his friend and they would work and go back to friends house and then go to work the next day, some days friend came back to my parents house and they did the same thing. It’s not uncommon for him to be gone all weekend working or with friends... just what teenagers do right? It’s good for teens to work... my brother was able to have his spending money and still banked away $3000 by the end of summer... at 14 I think that’s awesome


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[Tayken]

Tayken, the courts dont care.

Has your matter even gone to a Motion yet? My understanding from your postings that you are in the conference loop where material decisions cannot be made.

Furthermore, children often are expected to contribute to their education. In some cases 1/3 of it.

My partners kids have terminated their relationships with him. Hes still obligated to pay cs and his portion of school expenses. Look at all the other cases of parents who have kids give them the finger but are still paying. Farden factors are bs.

Again, many of these matters die in conferences because no one ever brings the matter to a motion or trial. Those that do have different results and CanLII has them.

Thats not to say that some of these parents are right. Getting your kid fired because they cant modify schedules is a little extreme!

The thing everyone has to remember is that CS is temporary. It has a terminating date eventually. There aren't any 30+-year-olds living with the other parent who is collecting CS.

Ultimately, the child will be deemed an independent adult and it will all end. CS, payment for schooling, etc...

Time is on your side.

 

[Tayken]

I think ome thing being overlooked here is that it's not just the NCP giving up time with the kid to facilitate this opportunity for them, CP is also giving up their time with the kid.

But, the child is returning every night to sleep at the residential parent every night. They are not spending any time, even sleeping time, with the other parent when they surely can in most situations.

 

[Tayken]

Honestly in my opinion I think it’s rather crappy as a parent to prevent a teen from having a job.

I think it is crappier for a parent to not promote access to the other parent over a job and uses the job as an excuse as to why the child isn't spending time with the other parent.

(we live 1.5 hours away), he most likely won’t be coming for his 2 weeks in July and 2 weeks in August...

No offense, but, the job is not the reason the child won't be coming. The reason is you live 1.5 hours away. That is one hell of a commute to work. You might see the child consistently and in the regular pattern you are used to if you lived in close proximity to the child.

I don't see employment as the "reason" the child is not going to come. Distance is the reason. If you lived 30 minutes from the other parent... Would things be different? Probably.

that’s just how life goes... I mean honestly you stop a 14 maybe 15 year old from working but when they hit 16, good luck trying to force access.

Good luck trying to have access to a child when you live 1.5 hours away! Employment has NOTHING to do with it really.

A suppose a parent could take it to court but I highly doubt a judge will order a 16 year old go to visits over working. I would hope by the time they reach that age that a parent and child have developed a good relationship that they can work out their own communication and parenting schedules.

Or the parent would have moved into close proximity of the child to better facilitate meaningful access??

 

[blinkandimgone]

OP indicates the child will stay at a local relative's residence, not the CP's residence. I assumed this meant that the child would be staying overnight rhere and arrangements would need to be made for either parent to visit with the child while away.

 

[Berner_Faith]

access for teens with jobs

I think it is crappier for a parent to not promote access to the other parent over a job and uses the job as an excuse as to why the child isn't spending time with the other parent.







No offense, but, the job is not the reason the child won't be coming. The reason is you live 1.5 hours away. That is one hell of a commute to work. You might see the child consistently and in the regular pattern you are used to if you lived in close proximity to the child.



I don't see employment as the "reason" the child is not going to come. Distance is the reason. If you lived 30 minutes from the other parent... Would things be different? Probably.







Good luck trying to have access to a child when you live 1.5 hours away! Employment has NOTHING to do with it really.







Or the parent would have moved into close proximity of the child to better facilitate meaningful access??

I think you have misunderstood. We are not arguing about access. We realize our distance will be a factor in not seeing the teen shall he decide to get a job. We are not arguing the teen should come and have to commute 1.5 hours to work and back. We KNOW we won’t see the teen for two weeks in July and two weeks in August if teen should get a job.

I can understand where you are coming from but moving closer isn’t always an option. Surely if my husband went from making the $85k he does a year to $40k his ex would have his butt to court and argue he is underemployed. He doesn’t stand a chance at making even close to $85k where the children reside. He use to work factory in that town because that’s all their is. Not everything is as cut and dry as you want to make it seem. Employment isn’t as easy to come by as some would hope.

Think of those who work for someone like Ontario Power Generation or Bruce Power, they don’t have the option just to relocate anywhere in Ontario. Their jobs are limited to certain areas.

I’m not here to argue because in my mind stopping a teen from having a job because a parent wants to demand their parenting time is crappy in my opinion. So what a parent forces a teen to come during the summer and then that parent goes to work every day and teen just sits around the house? Jobs keep teens out of trouble, jobs teach teens responsibility. You won’t convince me that a parents time should trump a teen having a job and learning valuable life skills and if that makes me a crappy parent then oh well, I will gladly be a crappy parent for a few years so our teens can have those experiences and learn those lessons that first jobs provide


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[rockscan]

Reasonable parents make sacrifices for the good of their children. Reasonable parents put their children first. Reasonable parents aren’t jerks about this stuff.

That said, a job several hours away for the whole summer deserves a discussion between both parents and the child. If the other parent is going to be unreasonable then try to find a solution like kid works in town or kid comes home once a month to see the other parent.

If the unreasonable parent wont budge, kid is old enough to decide by 16-17. If they want to take it to court and waste the money, let them.

 

[rockscan]

access for teens with jobs

Has your matter even gone to a Motion yet? My understanding from your postings that you are in the conference loop where material decisions cannot be made.

I thought these things just go through conferences. Lawyer hopes it will be settled. We are waiting for ex to file for a conference date.

Furthermore, children often are expected to contribute to their education. In some cases 1/3 of it.

Thats if the parties agree and/or a judge pushes them there. Ex thinks kid shouldn’t have to work because kids should be kids and parents should sacrifice for them.

Again, many of these matters die in conferences because no one ever brings the matter to a motion or trial. Those that do have different results and CanLII has them.

I asked the lawyer this. He said he’s argued both sides and its the luck of the draw so to speak but on the whole, judges don’t want kids to suffer. If the ex refuses to settle, it will probably go to a motion and I hope my partner is successful since he is being reasonable and following the law.

The thing everyone has to remember is that CS is temporary. It has a terminating date eventually. There aren't any 30+-year-olds living with the other parent who is collecting CS.
Ultimately, the child will be deemed an independent adult and it will all end. CS, payment for schooling, etc...
Time is on your side.

Yes but getting there is the problem and having FRO get it is an addition to that and having the ex get it and not waste $$$ on lawyers is the multiplying factor.

 

[Tayken]

OP indicates the child will stay at a local relative's residence, not the CP's residence. I assumed this meant that the child would be staying overnight rhere and arrangements would need to be made for either parent to visit with the child while away.

Then CS ends in this scenario.

 

[Tayken]

I thought these things just go through conferences. Lawyer hopes it will be settled. We are waiting for ex to file for a conference date.

Conferences are a waste of time in most cases. Because if parents were reasonable they would have settled out of court or through another dispute resolution process like Med-Arb.

The reality is that a conference is just set up for a motion. If parties agree then they agree and settle. Conferences judges do not have the power to order anything other than technical stuff. You will have to proceed to a motion or trial to get an order if an agreement can't be reached.

You are about to pay thousands upon thousands in the conference loop all to end up in a motion anyways.

 

[Tayken]

I think you have misunderstood. We are not arguing about access. We realize our distance will be a factor in not seeing the teen shall he decide to get a job.

What I am stating it is not a "factor" it is the "reason".

We are not arguing the teen should come and have to commute 1.5 hours to work and back.

I am arguing that if your partner wants access then he should do the 1.5 commute and live in close proximity to the child.

 

[rockscan]

Conferences are a waste of time in most cases. Because if parents were reasonable they would have settled out of court or through another dispute resolution process like Med-Arb.



The reality is that a conference is just set up for a motion. If parties agree then they agree and settle. Conferences judges do not have the power to order anything other than technical stuff. You will have to proceed to a motion or trial to get an order if an agreement can't be reached.



You are about to pay thousands upon thousands in the conference loop all to end up in a motion anyways.

Im planning to ask the lawyer if he will push for a motion if the conference goes nowhere. The ex is unreasonable and is asking for things that are not in the FCSG and jurisprudence. Mediation was a no due to cost and what she is demanding. Lawyer thinks a judge will be able to remind her of what she is entitled to. I don’t want my partner paying thousands for conferences. Lawyer said a trial will cost thousands more. I have a feeling ex is simply doing this to bleed my partner. If she can’t have the money, he cant have it either.

 

[blinkandimgone]

Then CS ends in this scenario.

If this is a temporary arrangement, just for the summer and the child is returning to the CP's home in time for school to start, I don't see this. Maybe a reduced amount for this time however the costs to maintain a home for the child remains the same.

 

[kate331]

Im planning to ask the lawyer if he will push for a motion if the conference goes nowhere.

Isnt it up to the other party to ask for a Motion at the Conference?

Whats the advantage for Rockscan to ask for it?

IMO, you do not need a lawyer for a CC its a waste of legal fees.

 

[rockscan]

Isnt it up to the other party to ask for a Motion at the Conference?



Whats the advantage for Rockscan to ask for it?



IMO, you do not need a lawyer for a CC its a waste of legal fees.

I would agree with you but my partner had ptsd before his divorce and it flared up through the first court process for the divorce. He sought treatment and was getting better but the papers being served impacted him so badly I dont think he could represent himself effectively.

The only reason I think it needs to be pushed to a motion is because the ex agrees with no law. His lawyer in the divorce proceedings had to file an application to get things moving because she walked out of mediation and ignored all letters asking to meet for the agreement. The judge at that hearing told her if she didn’t work on it judge would move in my partners favour. (Note that I am gleaning this from what my partner has said and what his present lawyer thinks happened based on his knowledge of the process. Partner said judge told her to shut up and quit delaying or she would order my partner to get more than what he was seeking.)

 

[kate331]

Rockscan, I think I would just let the crazy ex lead the way (motion/trial), and have your partner respond in a reasonable manor. I am hoping for your sake that the ex is just bluffing, seems your case gets stuck and doesn't move forward towards an end. How long have you been at this, its so discouraging for us newbies to think this goes on for years and years

 

[rockscan]

He’s been divorced for seven years. Shes been difficult from the beginning and dragged the kids into it. When I came along she had more ammunition. Now that we are permanently together shes got it in her head that my money is on the table too. She also refuses to follow the law or the agreement and finally filed a motion but has been sitting on it for almost a year now. My partner has been following his obligations (thanks to my research and this forum) and is simply waiting for her to move forward or pull her head out of her ass and as a result we have moments where he stresses about what shes planning and he struggles with the bigger distance with his kids because they are just angrier as they get older and have to take responsibility (WHICH THEY SHOULD!!!).

I always joke that reasonable people work faster but then remember that reasonable people don’t need the courts and there are way too many unreasonable people which is why the courts are so full.

It also really irks me when I hear so many of you with exs who dont want to see or spend time with their kids. I think Im going to start a side business where I go and punch these jerks in the face. Helps you with the problem and helps me resolve some stress.

 

[kate331]

I will hire you in a minute to punch my ex in the face My oldest (7) is really struggling without Dad. He misses the evening bike rides, wrestling matches and Dad's steaks on the BBQ.

I too appreciate this forum for all this insight so my kids dont end up resenting their Father. I hope for you and your partner the children will come to know the Father they missed out on. I am guessing due to their teenager minds they are self centered and maybe cant see past Mom's pain. I learnt in a counselling session that children will try to "protect" the parent they "persieve" as the victim.

That said, I myself had a hard time accepting the new partner in my ex's life, at the beginning I felt she was the home wrecker, and trying "win" the children over. I am so over it now, and am grateful for her help on his parenting time.

Opps sorry Denbigh, we just totally stole your thread. Rockscan you should open a new one to help you and your partner move forward, its been waaaay too long for you to live in limbo like this.

 

[standing on the sidelines]

If this is a temporary arrangement, just for the summer and the child is returning to the CP's home in time for school to start, I don't see this. Maybe a reduced amount for this time however the costs to maintain a home for the child remains the same.

should the money not follow the child? The relatives are the ones providing the food and shelter for the child so they should be compensated for it.