6 months of no visits.

Beachnana

New member
So. dad has by his own choice and reasons not actually exercised any parenting time with son 2 1/2 years old for the past 6 months. He wanted to take son in March back to his city for an undisclosed period of time. but that was not agreed upon and Mom expressed her concern regarding the period of time not being specified and only a one way ticket being purchased, plus Dad had not seen child for 3 months at that time. She suggested some weekend visits to re establish parent child bonding and ultimately said she would not agree to his plan until he had established some parenting time with hismson. The agreements states the child will reside with Mother and Dad can visit when ever he wants. He chooses not to visit. Now,he has come back and said he wants to take son for 3 weeks. At that point, apart from a weekly Skype chat he has not,physically seen son for 6 months. Again Mom has stated that Dad needs to graduate visits with son and removing him from his familiar surroundings would not be in his best interest. Is she wrong?

Mom has asked that he come and visit son on many occasion and he has the funds provided to do so. He just says he does not want to come to her city and he wants his son in his,own home with his new family,and thats the only way he will visit.
 
considering the father hasn't seen his son for so long by his choice then I don't think she is wrong.

My gut instinct tells me if the child goes to the fathers for three weeks it will end horribly. Either the child will be upset at being apart from his mother for three weeks to be with someone who hasn't taken an active part in his life or the father will not return the child.
 
considering the father hasn't seen his son for so long by his choice then I don't think she is wrong.

My gut instinct tells me if the child goes to the fathers for three weeks it will end horribly. Either the child will be upset at being apart from his mother for three weeks to be with someone who hasn't taken an active part in his life or the father will not return the child.

I agree. I think she's absolutely in her rights to request he spend some time with his son in his comfortable zone for some shorter periods of time before sending him to a new city for a few weeks.
And if I recall, this is a fairly young child right?
The one way ticket really, really concerns me, I would never agree to that.

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I agree. I think she's absolutely in her rights to request he spend some time with his son in his comfortable zone for some shorter periods of time before sending him to a new city for a few weeks.
And if I recall, this is a fairly young child right?
The one way ticket really, really concerns me, I would never agree to that.

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2 and a half and the father hasn't had personal contact for the last 6 months.
 
Yes, young child. Visits were all her effort last year. She travelled down to Dads city each time and each time he was supposed to come to visit in the city she resides in he had some excuse and just never came. Now he is screaming denied visits and threatens contempt motions. She has held her ground and suggested he visit frequently for shorter periods and graduate the length as son becomes more familar with the concept of aways with Dad and has reach an age where he can cope with the separation.

Its the old vague "reasonable consent" phrase that seem like a good idea at the time and certainly get the agreement signed, but now lawyers will argue what the phrase actually means and $$$$ later! In the meantime he refuses to come visit only to pick up and take for a long period of time. Frustrating and yes it must be maddeneing for those parents who would love to be able to visit when ever, but are prevented.

Forum helps with lots of good information, but most cases seem to be where both parents reside in fairly close proximity. That is not the case here, somfurther complications.
 
I have an ex who lives a fair bit of distance away. And I've requested that he spend time in our city before he take the kids away. They need to be comfortable with him and get to know him first.
I've dealt with lots of screaming and threats.
Guys like that are only looking for their own convenience and don't care about the kids comfort levels or about them feeling safe.
She needs to stick to her guns.
As long as she's being reasonable in her requests (sounds like she is) and offering options for his access, I think she's perfectly within her right to do what she's doing.
6 months in the life of a 2.5 year old is significant.

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How does he do short visits if he has to fly there. Sounds like the visits required to integrate the father and child again are not feasible. I mean really, does he fly there every friday night for dinner?

When your child goes to a new daycare provider - how many integration visits do you do and for how long before you leave the child there for the day.

In my opinion if YOU cannot follow the agreement/order then the onus is on you to change it.
 
She does follow the agreement. He actually wrote this particular section and he is the one who will not follow it. He has the funds to travel, plenty from reduced CS and prefers not to spend any money.

She has not suggested he just come for Friday dinner, but come on regular visits for weekends and that she would also come to his city for visits. He has declined that option. 6 months has passed and now he wants a long extended visit. It would not be good for a 2 1/2 year old to be plucked from his home. And with no specified timeline,and a 1 way air ticket.
 
How does he do short visits if he has to fly there. Sounds like the visits required to integrate the father and child again are not feasible. I mean really, does he fly there every friday night for dinner?

When your child goes to a new daycare provider - how many integration visits do you do and for how long before you leave the child there for the day.

In my opinion if YOU cannot follow the agreement/order then the onus is on you to change it.

where did the op say that the agreement wasn't being followed? He gets reduced CS to make up for his travel costs. He doesn't travel to see the child so in all fairness he should be paying full CS. He wants to take the young child away from his mother and the only real home the child has known for three weeks straight? Would you allow that yourself? Especially given his track record for seeing the child? Unless the mother took the child to see him, he couldn't be bothered. So then that is more money out of her pocket and he is the one who benefits all the way around. Reduced CS for travel but someone else travels to bring the child to him.

To the OP, your daughter is right on the mark with this one. Not many NCPs would let a chance to see their child slip by and not many CPs would let their very young child go off for three weeks with a parent who is basically a stranger, especially on a one way ticket.
 
Note my choice of words - *if* and *you*. No accusations were made.

Clearly we don't have all the information.

I'd be interested in knowing what this payor's CS was reduced by. I am finding difficulty imagining it was reduced enough to support frequent visits and airfare. Its possible for sure... but if he isn't coming them mom should be seeking to restore full CS? Why would she incur additional expenses to bring the child to him AND agree to reduced CS to offset his travel to access that he doesn't exercise? At a quick glance, there is missing info to this situation.

In any event, I am not of the opinion that 3 weeks is a good idea either. I am curious though what would be an appropriate integration schedule for access... what is the mom's thoughts on that?
 
The amount CS was reduced by 45% and was enough for monthly visits to the city where child resides. Therein lies the problem, as with many agreements. The wording vague and left open to mutual agreement and communication between the parties. Something the Father assured all he was going to do. But of course his only communication has been argumentive at its best.

He only used a small amount last year as he refused to come to visit and relied on her visits, which, yes he did pay for, but also she had some work related trips which he took advantage off. So only the 5 extended visits were arranged and done by her. she used all her leave up ro ensure child visited Dad. He used none, even when child was visiting. Now child reached age of 2 he has to have a full flight ticket, so in their negotiations they had verbally agreed that more visits would take place where the child resides. She would travel down 2 times per year to facilate visits to extended family. 6 months has now passed and he has made no attempt to come and visit. She has asked when he was coming and the importance of coming but he just ignored her emails and any talk of visits.

She has suggested monthly visits of 3/4 days over the course of the 2014 year with herself going down for a week inmthe summer and a week in the fall so child can visit extended family. He has ignored this. He wants child for a month at a time when he wants it.

Oh by the way he is way behind on child support so no point in worry about that.
 
Child support and access are not interconnected in the eyes of the court.

I encourage you to consider your stance of 3 or 4 days for each access visit over the course of a full calendar year. What makes 3 days or 4 days the magic number? Why is that in the child's best interest and not 2 or 5 or 6? An entire year of visits of 3 or 4 days seems, at least to me, an awfully long integration especially if it's not increased in days over the course of the year....there needs to be a starting point and not a year's worth of the same 3 or 4 day schedule. That just isn't fair to child or dad.
 
Sorry I will be more specific. At Christmas he had 3 night visit with Dad. Child seem to,handle it quite well. So the plan was more visits with overnights graduating from 3 for a couple of the visits and then 4 and so on by the summer the hope was that child would be able to enjoy a week at a time.

But then Dad has decided he will not visit at all and will not arrange for Mom to travel with child to his area. He just ignored the whole topic of visits then suddenly after 3 months announced it was time for child to live with him and he would arrive the following week to take child back to his city for " roughly a month". He had moved and had not disclosed this fact or his new address. She found out when a friend who was looking at houses in his area went to an open house and it was his and it was empty.

He was purchasing a one way ticket for the child and instructed the Mom to " drop off child at airport" as he had a tight turnaround planned. So really that was not a viable option nor well thought out for the child. So she disagreed and lawyers letters ensued discussing the legal interpretation of the agreement.

So then he stated he would only come to take the child back with him and he would determine when he would tell her she could come,and get the child. Now its been close to 6 months and he has emailed again his intention. To come to pick up his son.

She maintains its too long an absence and he needs to build some father son connection. So we are back to step 1 which was graduating from 2 to 3 overnights. You have to start somewhere.

And child support has never been connected to access by her. You mentioned she should be asking for the child support to be refunded if he was not using it and I stated well he has not paid much of CS support so it was hardly u likely he would follow any additional CS orders. We live with the inept workings of FRO who kindly allow him to do his best lol. Tough to buy new houses, vacations and smoke heavily when you have CS to pay!
 
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Update on the situation.

As I have read some of the other threads where parents are fighting to get any parenting time and then read about the parents who deal with ex's who keep messing around with the terms of the SA, calling children during visits, causes arguments at pick and drop of meets I wonder when our lives will return to normal.

Its now 8 months. Skype has been regularly at least once a week, usually initiated by Mom. She has Skype chats during Dads vacations at different locations. She has Skype at the new house, she has even had Skype at Friends party etc etc. Sometimes short, sometimes quite long chats.

Never any mention of coming to visit, never any mention of asking Mom to bring child down to visit. Always slipping in tidbits of his latest acquisitions or in different locales around the house so Mom can get a sense of how " big it is! Lol

3 months ago she found a mediator through the court system and invited Dad to mediation so they could sit face to face with a qualified child focused mediator and plan the next years parenting schedule and then draft how the schedule would be once child enters school, which is next September. She did the intake session and apparently he did. Then he told the mediator he would get back to him regarding setting up the mediation once he had taken care of some personal things.

Skype went on as usual, although there was a 3 week period where she heard nothing from him until last week which 3 months after he told the mediator her would get back to him.

Last week out of the blue an email came with another Olive Branch message of moving forward and a proposal of visits. All of course centred around child going to Dads new home with his new family. Suggestion was that Mom drive 7 hours and meet at a roadside coffee shop and transfer son. Then a week later drive back and pick him up. Interesting that nothing was mentioned about the now over $4500 unspent travel money garnished from CS nor the $4000 unpaid daycare fees which Mom shoulders alone. Also no mention that his NOA he finally sent through his lawyer showed he has a large increase in income and should have been paying more CS than he actually does.

There are several other visits outlined, all at least 3 months apart. All focused on holiday times, so Thanksgiving, Christmas, March Break and Summer. No intent to come to where child now resides. Certainly done in a cost effective manner for Dad. He had visits last year at Christmas and had March break but did not show up. Although as the child is not in school cannot understand why March Break is so important unless its so GF children can be there as well and they are planning a trip to Disney!

So what the question is. Given the distance, given the 8 month absence from actual physical contact with child, given the age of the child 2 3/4 what is the best child focused parenting plan.

Neither party can move their employment, so no point in starting with that. I did some research and WestJet have a guardian fare program, which gives 50% of airfare for travelling parent so that would help a lot.

Mom wants to ensure Son is comfortable with visits away from his home and wants to respond with a clear plan of graduating visits. How many would you think she needs to have and for how long. We had read that you use the age of the child to base the number of overnights so 2 3/4 old would mean 2-3 overnights. But surely he would need to just do some day visits first. And would the visit not have to be fairly close together at first to ensure child remembers he goes off with Dad and then comes home to Mom.

Opinions welcomed, as we meet with the mediator and want to have a sound unbiased point of view of what is right for the child.

I wont take anything personally!
 
The only thing I can say is this is brutal. My partner would give his right arm to have a partner willing to share visits. Hell he got an email from his oldest today an is flying with happiness. Im having a really hard time understanding why people are so awful this week. I hope someone on here can give you something more helpful than my simple wish of luck. Your daughter is lucky to have a very supportive mother through all this.
 
if I remember correctly the father has reduced CS due to the high travel costs? If so then why should the mother meet him anywhere?

If he likes to brag about stuff that costs $$$ then the airfare shouldn't be an issue for him.

I believe the father should make an effort to reconnect with the child after 8 months (Skype cannot replace being there) before the child is allowed to travel that distance and stay for an extended time at the fathers.
 
Well yes we agree, but the question is how to word a parenting plan that incorporates some gradual reintroduction of child being away from Mom for periods of time.

I should point out that child is a now confident little boy who has spent up to 3 nights away from Mom at my home, which is of course very familiar to him. Her work requires overnight absents on occasion and she has had a couple of short weekend aways with girlfriends. So we feel it could be an easy transition but it needs to be a graduated transition. She wants the first visits to be here where child lives and is familiar with parks etc. She also wants to establish more frequent visits as she believes this is better for son.

Its how you put this into words, which will not end up unenforceable as the vague SA that she currently tries to function under.
 
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