3 over 4 begun prior to separation.

S

Stephenl

New member
Hi,
I read Nadia's thread with great interest. I'm coming at the issue from the other side. I've read the only two cases I could find where this issue arose, and in both cases the teacher began the deferred income schedule post separation, and where a reason was given, for the purpose of his own educational enrichment.
I'm wondering how much two differences make:
1. I began the 3 over 4 with agreement of my spouse 9 months prior to us separating. (The paper work was submitted for it 1 year and 5 months prior to separation.)
2. We have two children. During the leave year, they will be in grades 6 and 8. I have been a middle school teacher for many years, and my purpose for taking the leave is, and always was, to focus on their educations prior to secondary school.

My ex's lawyer sees this as a saving's program. I assume it is her view that the 9 months of deferred income while we were still married is a divisible asset.
Can anyone offer an opinion about this?

Secondly, is it likely CS would be imputed? I love my children very much, and believe absolutely this to be in their best interests. I'm positive that I could make a lasting and very significant impact on their lives and education with this leave year but will have difficulty maintaining it if forced to pay CS and perhaps Spousal on regular income.
I'd be grateful for any insight. Thank you.
 
Have I not included enough information, or is it that no one knows how this might be decided?
I'd be grateful for any input one way or the other.
 
Stephenl said:
Have I not included enough information, or is it that no one knows how this might be decided?
I'd be grateful for any input one way or the other.
Click to expand...

I don't know a lot about this, but I do know you won't get away with not paying support for the time you are actually not working and just living off savings. You are welcome to do what you wish as your life but your children (and possibly ex spouse) have a right to be supported.

If this is something you are going to be doing I suggest you save an budget to maintain your support obligations. You don't stop paying your other bills during this time, CS or SS is no different in my opinion.
 
I am familar with the 3 over 4 plan offered to teachers. Its a nice perk if you can afford to live on 75% of your salary. I guess when you were an intact family your ex was in full agreement with you doing this. But now you are apart she obviously feels this will not happen and you will be at work and therefore I would assume that money is part of the marital assets.

3 over 4 is really taking part of your salary and saving it for when you do not work and do not draw a salary just like any other savings account.

You may think you are going to continue your plan of overseeing your childrens education in those important years but obviously your ex does not think that will be happening now.
 
Thank you.
I'm not suggesting that CS not be payed in any of the four years.
To me, this is a question of what is the best interest of the children. We have a shared 50/50 access arrangement, and so the offset amounts to about $200 a month.
Am I wrong legally in believing that my contribution to their lives during the leave year, is worth more than the difference between CS at 75% and 100%--or about $200?
I do appreciate the input.
 
Stephenl said:
Thank you.
I'm not suggesting that CS not be payed in any of the four years.
To me, this is a question of what is the best interest of the children. We have a shared 50/50 access arrangement, and so the offset amounts to about $200 a month.
Am I wrong legally in believing that my contribution to their lives during the leave year, is worth more than the difference between CS at 75% and 100%--or about $200?
I do appreciate the input.
Click to expand...

Legally yes you are wrong. The law doesn't care how much effort you put into raising your children, the law cares about whether the children are supported. And honestly, if you are only paying $200 a month I would not try to fight that because it is going to cost you more than $2400 to fight it and you would still have the pay that $2400 for that 4th year.
 
Thanks Berner_Faith,
I can accept that it might not be worth fighting in court over.

During the time we were together, approximately 10 000 accrued in a deferred income pool. No tax will be paid on this money until it becomes income in the fourth year.
So my question is: is the 10 000 subject to division as an assett?
 
And I need to clarify.
The 200 I referred to is the difference that would be paid in child support depending on whether I am assessed at 75% or at 100%.
Thank you.
 
I think the fact that you began the process prior to separation, presumably a decision made in partnership with your ex, makes a big difference. You aren't springing a lowered income after separation on her, which would be considered deliberate underemployment, you're merely continuing to follow the career path you had planned while together.

If I understand the program correctly, your employer holds back money for you for three years, which it will use to pay you during the fourth year you are not working? So your T4 will show income, though reduced, for all those four years? When you separated, wouldn't you have started paying CS based on the reduced income to begin with? I would think that your ex knows to anticipate an increase in CS when your leave year is over.

I'm just curious though, how is this leave supposed to benefit your children? Are you planning to homeschool them for that school year? If not, what is your plan for your free time during the day while they are at school? Are you going to make them do extra schoolwork with you in the evenings or weekends (they'll love that....:() or something? You could do that without taking a year off work. And don't forget you only have them 50% of the time to begin with. How does it benefit the children for you to be off work while they are with their mother? If you're going to justify your 3 over 4 from the 'best interests of the children' angle, you'd better have all those questions addressed and your arguments solid.
 
Thank Rioe,
You've made me see that more than good intentions and knowledge of curriculum is needed. But yes, I was planning to give them extra work, and figured that I would be really well positioned to help them.
 
Interesting topic. I think it is important to differentiate child support and spousal support. Spousal support is typically calculated (although not written in stone) on gross income whereas child support looks at line 150. Deferring income, whether it be to a pension or just saving for a rainy day, is risky. Would children and ex not be in a position of gambling on whether or not you had good health? I would think that you would have to show specifically why what you are proposing is in the children's best interests. Being a stay at home parent to tutor children when there are plenty of good resources in the community may not be compelling to a judge.

Sounds like a nice plan for you and an even nicer way to defer income to decrease tax and support payments.
 
Thank you.
Maybe I'm missing something.
I guess I don't see it that much differently than a couple deciding that one parent should reduce their working hours to be home more for the kids in the first couple years. Sure there are resources in the community. But they decide together that it would be better for the kids to have a parent do it.
This was a period in their lives that we believe(d) I, as their parent, and and teacher am well positioned to make an important impact.
Is this not analagous?
 
What was decided when you were a couple may not be realistic or practical now.

You have to look at things from your ex's side. If she agrees then that's great. If she disagrees then I think you might have a problem convincing a judge that saving your money so you can take a year off work is in the best interest of the children. In the end it seems like it is a savings account. Who's to say you don't change your mind and go to Africa?
 
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