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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 02-26-2018, 04:21 PM
Helpmyspouse Helpmyspouse is offline
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Default Spousal support???

I was married for 19 years before my spouse started showing signs of serious mental illness, psychosis, paranoid delusions, schizophrenia. This signs came out of nowhere. No warnings. He became violent and in a psychotic episode choked me. He was arrested and charged with D.V. Police imposed a no contact order and my two children and I had to leave the home. We stayed at my parent’s home which was supposed to be temporary pending my spouse obtaining medical treatment. Turns out he was not complying with medical treatment. He refused since it plays into his whole paranoia that the world is trying to control him. He doesn’t think he is sick. No insight. After a year of living apart it became apparent he would not be seeking help. I had to force the sale of the family home. He was left in it because he had nowhere to go and making it deteriorate, unable to maintain it financially or physically. I was paying all the bills. The house became a hoarder’s pigsty. I obtained a court order to list and sell the home without his consent. House finally sold and the proceeds from the home are now in trust pending litigation. I also filed for separation since my children’s lives were in limbo. We were not in the family home and had no access to our belongings. There was no way to co-parent with him so I obtained sole custody. He can have supervised access visits at a center but he refuses to attend almost 3 years now he has not seen our young children. Today he remains homeless, unemployed, and dripping with psychosis, refuses medical treatment or complying with medication. He doesn’t pay me child support. He receives 2000 per month from inheritance trust fund. He doesn’t use this money for putting a roof over his head. He blows it and is still homeless. His psychosis prevents him from managing his money and making the right choices. He was appointed a PGT. Which brings me to the reason for my post. His lawyer is putting in a claim for spousal support. Apparently he feels that on top of my caring for my children on my own, he feels I can also afford to pay my exspouse spousal. The children and I are still living with my parents in a tiny room that we share. We have been there for 5 years now. It was supposed to be temporary but the legal debt from this mess has put me behind. I am saving to buy a home for my children and I. What is the likelihood of a judge ordering me to pay him spousal? After everything I have lost, it sounds like adding insult to injury to now have me continue to live with my parents, sharing one room while I hand over my pay cheque to a sick man who will just blow it. To make matters worse, I would be paying a spouse who was charged with a domestic violence offence committed on me and who I still have a restraining order against. I am so afraid of the outcome of this. I play it over and over in my mind. So, I could conceivably have to pay out spousal but my children and I will never be able to have our own place. Paying out spousal will put me in a financial hole. Does anyone have experience with this or can provide me with some case law? The marriage ended through no fault of my own. We would still be married today had it been safe to live with him had he agreed to medication.
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:56 PM
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Im not an expert on ss but from what I understand, he would have to prove entitlement. Which means that his career would have had to suffer to support yours and/or the rule of a specific number (I want to say 65) would have to come into play.

From what you’ve said, someone is administering his income/inheritance to provide him with money which means there is something for cs. He is capable of working after managing his mental health issues (ie taking medication).

You need to take a deep breath and start thinking and get some legal advice at least for this situation. The other lawyer is more than likely trying to scare you into making a deal. Has your ex approached getting his share of the equalization? That may be a part of this push.

Even if it costs you money for legal advice, you may want to push back for cs. He is purposely under(un)employed in my view. He chooses not to work or see his children. He is specifically not dealing with his mental illness and its not helping the kids. A lawyer would be able to help with these responses.
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Old 02-27-2018, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpmyspouse View Post
He receives 2000 per month from inheritance trust fund.


That is not exactly a huge amount of money. It is nice, but that's only $24,000 a year. Even minimum wage is more than that in Ontario.


Quote:
He was appointed a PGT.



Therefore he is officially disabled. Perhaps not physically disabled, but the distinction between physical and mental is not considered to be as important these days.


Quote:
His lawyer is putting in a claim for spousal support.



That does not mean that you will have to pay SS. I would resist. It is obviously morally wrong to have to pay SS in your case, it is less clear to me that it is legally wrong.


Quote:
What is the likelihood of a judge ordering me to pay him spousal?



What is your income? People have to pay for their disabled ex's all the time. The fact that he has the inheritance income helps, but it may not be determinative.


Quote:
Paying out spousal will put me in a financial hole.



It usually does. Welcome to the world of support payors.

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Old 02-27-2018, 11:21 AM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Quickly:

1. The $2000 a month likely comes from an annuity for which the court won't touch nor consider as his income. It won't see the light of day in any of the proceedings or impact his claim for SS or even lower it. There is a lot of case law on this actually and its how rich people often ensure that their estates are intended for the person they left it to and no one else. It is the right of the deceased person to designate the money to one person and not you or the children. Even indirectly through CS or SS.

2. The case for SS for this person is pretty good. Especially with a 19 year (let's say 20 years) marriage. This is considered a long-term marriage. Depending on age the rule of 65 shows up. Coupled with the disability the case gets stronger.

Good Luck!
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Old 02-27-2018, 04:10 PM
Helpmyspouse Helpmyspouse is offline
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Thanks for all your replies. How about the rule that states paying spousal support doesn't trump the financial security of any children involved. I have sole custody of my children. I am the only financial provider for them. If I pay him spousal, I can't afford a roof over my head. I end up in a shelter with my children while I hand over my pay cheque??? Doesn't seem right on any level.
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Old 02-27-2018, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpmyspouse View Post
Thanks for all your replies. How about the rule that states paying spousal support doesn't trump the financial security of any children involved. I have sole custody of my children. I am the only financial provider for them. If I pay him spousal, I can't afford a roof over my head. I end up in a shelter with my children while I hand over my pay cheque??? Doesn't seem right on any level.
You have been living with your parents for the last 5 years so its not like you will be homeless so that isn't an argument to use.

Your better to use the argument that he has went 5 years now without SS so he doesn't need it.

I know that you feel like he is getting rewarded for what he did to you but you need to take emotion out of it.
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Old 02-27-2018, 07:49 PM
Helpmyspouse Helpmyspouse is offline
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In my marriage breakdown due to no fault of my own I lost my spouse, my house, my vehicles, and $120,000 in debt and climbing. My childrens belongings are in storage. There is zero room to bring anything to my parents house. Very hard to remove emotion from this. If my parents didnt take us in we would have been in a shelter. My parents are 80 years old and on a fixed income and in poor healtn. The home is tiny. It is no longer appropriate nor healthy for my boys to share a 10 by 10 room with their mother. One is a 13. This living arrangement is no longer the best interest for my kids. And its not in best interest of my parents either. Bottom line is that I can put a roof over my children's heads with my hard earned income but NOT if I have to hand over my cheques to my spouse. I don't make enough money to support him and myself and kids. So I would like to see a judge make my spouse priority over what is best for the children. This is the decision to be made at end of the day. Improve quality of life for children or for a spouse. Paying him spouse will affect the financial stability of my children. This is the issue.
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Old 02-27-2018, 08:34 PM
Helpmyspouse Helpmyspouse is offline
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With an appointed PGT, should it not be their mandate to get him off the street. Why aren't they helping him apply for disability? On disability you are forced under a doctors care to qualify for benefits. He should be forced under care. Currently, he walks around unmedicated and dripping with psychosis. That is not safe for anyone. Looks like its easier to dump his issues on the ex wife, have her pay him for life. This is not a solution for a sick man. His best interests aren't being addressed either. What a shit show.
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Old 02-27-2018, 09:24 PM
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The first thing you do when you reply to something in family court is complete a very detailed financial statement (this is available online). Your ex would have to complete the same form. Nothing gets filed in court, by either party, without the financial form being completed. Have you examined his financial form carefully?

I understand you have had a hard go of things. However, from what you have written I think you need some financial advice. Did you ever consider bankruptcy? For some people it is a logical thing to do, particularly if one person is left with all the debt.

Even if your ex were to obtain "benefits" from disability you still could be liable for SS. Support isn't just based on need alone (as others have pointed out).

Worry less about your ex and more about your own situation.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:35 AM
standing on the sidelines standing on the sidelines is offline
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No one can be forced to get help unless there are proven to be a danger to themselves or others.

I am not sure how much disability will pay him if he qualifies for it. He is getting 2000 a month already so there would be some claw back.

Your best bet is to claim bankruptcy and start fresh rebuilding your credit. Downside is he can say you have more money available to pay him as.



Do you have an idea of what the monthly as will be?

Too bad your parents house is only a two bedroom. Would be easier if it was bigger.
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