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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 02-24-2018, 12:30 AM
youngdad91 youngdad91 is offline
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Basically mom says there was domestic violence and I was abusive, and we can't communicate and get along.

My position that the relationship was positive and mom's stance is to assist with her legal position for seeking custody

OCL confirms mom, grandmother, and daycare giving child negative messages about me. Child says to the OCL that I pushed her mom when she was in her moms tommy. Basically the child has a negative reception of me and unrealistically positive reception of mom. OCL says child is aware of mom's legal position and that the Child's comment to case worker line up with mom's legal position - in the sense that mom is coaching the child in this way. OCL states many of the child's comments about dad start off with "my mommy said"

Child (8 years old) says wants to live with mommy because she is nice , and that i'm rude and mean. (Can OCL really ask an 8 year old where they want to live)

Grandmother says they wish I never returned to the chidl's life. that child doesn't want to see me, and she wouldn't want the child to do something the child doesn't want to do, that access doesn't make any sense as there should only be one parent after seperation, that visits are meaningless

Ocl states my concerns with their complaints about me as a way to seek ways to reduce access are valid.

recommendation: re-integration therapy to clear up child's foggy image of me and to place in positive messages and images of me to the child.

mother should have sole custody, my access to be extended to include Wednesday and Sunday over nights.

The report has gotten the history wrong, particularly date of separation. Has missed the most recent unfounded CAS allegation against me, and didn't have any discussion with child's most recent therapist, or any of the child's teachers - just the principle.

Says too many high conflict marks that make joint cusdoty unworkable. Doesn't state why sole custody to me can't work, and has not made any comments to my proposals for parallel parenting . At the top where it states the parties position, she's missed my proposal for parallel parenting, but has it in the meeting with her. She doesn't comment on it in her discussions and recommendations. I don't think she understood my position. Further, thought I was seeking sole custody with equal access, my position for sole custody was actually access to mom would be alternate weekends

has left out comments from records where mom delaying my access at exchange centre for over 6 months, left out our agreement on counselling inter alia. Just has focused on the disagreements and conflict, and has not talked about any of our agreements.

has also left out a police incident where mom was denying me access and accused me of criminal harassment. has basically written the records putting bad things about me to light, and hiding items about mom - in terms of conflict.

My lawyer and I will be disputing the report.

the issue of bedroom wasn't an issue, and OCL wrote that I would be preparing a bedroom for the child as she matures to give her privacy. There is a lot of good stuff in there about me but the majority of the focus of the OCL has been to paint us as high conflict, and to hide things mom has done to create conflict, such as unilaterally interrupting the status qup in the middle of the OCL investigation, requiring an urgent motion by me to restore that status quo. ... etc etc

Isn't saying joint custody can't work because of conflict usually the easy way out for social workers ?

The OCL says has gaps in access should be minimized, but has failed to say how a 5-5-2-2 would not meet that requirement of minimizing gaps. Hasn't said a single word about why shared access can't work.

The process was also commented as being delayed by OCL stating that there was delay in receiving information from 3rd parties, and interpersonal issues with the social worker (I think she is going through a separation herself - and was late to appointments obviously having things going on at home.

My lawyer is surprised at how long it took given how short her recommendations were.. half a page..


thoughts? comments ?
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2018, 08:02 AM
Stillbreathing Stillbreathing is offline
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Assessment reports are nothing more than expensive toilet paper until you have had a chance to dispute them and cross examine the Maker if the report in court. If your ex files a motion to have some or all of the recommendations implemented prior to trial you tell the judge you are disputing it.
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Old 02-24-2018, 10:17 PM
youngdad91 youngdad91 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
Assessment reports are nothing more than expensive toilet paper until you have had a chance to dispute them and cross examine the Maker if the report in court. If your ex files a motion to have some or all of the recommendations implemented prior to trial you tell the judge you are disputing it.
Gladly, there is nothing in there that the ex could motion for in her benefit. She already has sole custody. I don't plan on motioning for much but for counselling as suggested by the OCL for as long as it doesn't delay the trial.

Any other thoughts or questions ?? Should I shorten out the post?
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Old 02-24-2018, 10:44 PM
Stillbreathing Stillbreathing is offline
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Another thing to be aware of is that these reports become outdated rather quickly. Especially if there is a material change in circumstances or if a year or more goes by. We had an assessment done in 2013 and 2015. Both are too old to be of much assistance to any judge as so much has happened since. Huge, huge waste of money! If Id known, I never would have co-operated in the first place. Especially since it was ordered due to my STBXs mental instability and safety concerns about him near the children (whom he had assaulted).Hindsight is wonderful.

Last edited by Stillbreathing; 02-24-2018 at 11:12 PM.
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  #5  
Old 02-25-2018, 01:06 AM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
The report has gotten the history wrong, particularly date of separation.
Not much churns on the date of separation. So I wouldn't bother much with it. It is an insignificant detail in all of this.

As well, as long as the history (time line) didn't impact the recommendations of the OCL... not much churns on that either... Other than the fact it is a clerical error easily corrected at trial if necessary.

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Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
Has missed the most recent unfounded CAS allegation against me, and didn't have any discussion with child's most recent therapist, or any of the child's teachers - just the principle.
Again, this is probably "fresh evidence" to the investigation which will have to be raised at trial. That is the #1 problem with OCL and Section 30 reports. Too much time passes and new (fresh) evidence evolves in 99% of cases that they never considered in the "report". Evidence that could significantly impact the report. That is not entirely the OCL or Section 30 assessors fault. It is the reality of a slow court process. Some blame lies on them with slow report writing.

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Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
Says too many high conflict marks that make joint cusdoty unworkable.
Read it carefully. Focus on what they said about you and your response to conflict. If you were conflicted own up to it. Admit to it and then demonstrate to the court how it is going to change by actually (gasp) changing.

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Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
Doesn't state why sole custody to me can't work, and has not made any comments to my proposals for parallel parenting.
Nor does the report have to. You can update your Form 35.1 and detail out a recommendation for parallel parenting. Far too often parents in the one section write 2-3 lines where it asks for their plan. In other cases I have seen entire bodies of complete parenting plans put there with all the i's and t's crossed. Guess which ones judges like? They like the detailed ones that are properly done!

Nothing stops you from doing this at any time!

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Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
At the top where it states the parties position, she's missed my proposal for parallel parenting, but has it in the meeting with her.
Doesn't make the report "flawed". Nor "absolute" in "truth". All subjects for trial if the stuff would actually have an impact. You need to weigh that heavily.

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Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
She doesn't comment on it in her discussions and recommendations. I don't think she understood my position.
Update your Form 35.1 and put it there in your recommendations for the child and rely upon your sworn affidavit (form 35.1) at trial!!!!!!!!!!! USE THE COURT PROCESS TO YOUR ADVANTAGE! BE DETAILED!

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Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
Further, thought I was seeking sole custody with equal access, my position for sole custody was actually access to mom would be alternate weekends
Again, not too relevant as this is outlined in your Response and/or Application. The judge will not rely upon the OCL report for that. There are court forms for that purpose already filed.

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Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
has left out comments from records where mom delaying my access at exchange centre for over 6 months, left out our agreement on counselling inter alia. Just has focused on the disagreements and conflict, and has not talked about any of our agreements.
Not their job really. They are focused on the child. Not what is happening to you. Read what you stated above. Doesn't that say it all where they identify that the mom is influencing hte child. Don't get stuck on the details.

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Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
has also left out a police incident where mom was denying me access and accused me of criminal harassment. has basically written the records putting bad things about me to light, and hiding items about mom - in terms of conflict.
It probably didn't shape their report enough to include. But, it may be relevant at court. Talk to your lawyer.

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Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
My lawyer and I will be disputing the report.
Careful! Dispute it on RELEVANT facts only. Don't nit pick on details that have low to moderate relevance. Only dispute *if* it would impact the outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
the issue of bedroom wasn't an issue, and OCL wrote that I would be preparing a bedroom for the child as she matures to give her privacy. There is a lot of good stuff in there about me but the majority of the focus of the OCL has been to paint us as high conflict, and to hide things mom has done to create conflict, such as unilaterally interrupting the status qup in the middle of the OCL investigation, requiring an urgent motion by me to restore that status quo. ... etc etc
Again, that is a LEGAL PROCEEDING nor something the OCL can weigh in as they are not experts in emergency ex-parte motions and stuff like that. They are social workers. They can only speak to where they are experts. Lawyers deal with stuff like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
Isn't saying joint custody can't work because of conflict usually the easy way out for social workers ?
Yes and no. One has to see the full body of the evidence that would be presented to accuratly give perspective. In the matter of Izyuk it was a significant oversight. But, in your matter they may have relied on really good stuff. Mutual conflict is killer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
The OCL says has gaps in access should be minimized, but has failed to say how a 5-5-2-2 would not meet that requirement of minimizing gaps. Hasn't said a single word about why shared access can't work.
Not their job nor something that would ever been in a report. Its RECOMMENDATIONS not a full analysis on how they arrived at them. That is why you cross examine them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
The process was also commented as being delayed by OCL stating that there was delay in receiving information from 3rd parties, and interpersonal issues with the social worker (I think she is going through a separation herself - and was late to appointments obviously having things going on at home.
Generally, not really relevant unless you can demonstrate that these personal issues impacted the recommendations directly. By the way, you can go to the court house and search for any court documents for her matter. You can copy them and if they are relevant you can introduce those public records as evidence... Especially if they demonstrate bias!

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Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
My lawyer is surprised at how long it took given how short her recommendations were.. half a page..
OCL reports average 3 pages. Not surprised. Nor should a learned lawyer either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngdad91 View Post
thoughts? comments ?
See above.
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:08 AM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
Another thing to be aware of is that these reports become outdated rather quickly. Especially if there is a material change in circumstances or if a year or more goes by. We had an assessment done in 2013 and 2015. Both are too old to be of much assistance to any judge as so much has happened since. Huge, huge waste of money! If Id known, I never would have co-operated in the first place. Especially since it was ordered due to my STBXs mental instability and safety concerns about him near the children (whom he had assaulted).Hindsight is wonderful.
I BEG EVERYONE TO LISTEN TO STILLBREATHING!!!!!!!!!

The OCL and Section 30 nonsense needs to stop now! They are not the holy grail of family law.
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Old 02-25-2018, 02:53 PM
youngdad91 youngdad91 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Again, this is probably "fresh evidence" to the investigation which will have to be raised at trial. That is the #1 problem with OCL and Section 30 reports. Too much time passes and new (fresh) evidence evolves in 99% of cases that they never considered in the "report". Evidence that could significantly impact the report. That is not entirely the OCL or Section 30 assessors fault. It is the reality of a slow court process. Some blame lies on them with slow report writing.
The child was seeing the new counsellor before the OCL started though.. and I signed consents for it..

Very slow report writing.. very. slow. she's focused on a lot of events which occured prior to making of initial order.. hasn't really focused on her job from initial order and forward .. it is as if she was dealing with a fresh application as opposed to a motion to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Generally, not really relevant unless you can demonstrate that these personal issues impacted the recommendations directly. By the way, you can go to the court house and search for any court documents for her matter. You can copy them and if they are relevant you can introduce those public records as evidence... Especially if they demonstrate bias!
What would be an example of bias in these?


Also, isn't the report supposed to include their methodology ? I know you said cross examine them .. do they just give their answers at trial? Isn't it supposed to be in the written and provided to you in advance so you have proper disclosure ? Seems she's kept to her self on a lot of things, in my opinion, because she knew it wouldn't fly. I feel she was very biased. At the initial meeting she told me should wouldn't recommend joint custody or equal access (before even having received any 3rd party information) so I would beg to differ that the 3rd party information even had any impact given she had already made up her mind about custody and access. Her attitude towards me was also much different at the second meeting with me (which was after she had met with mom). Biased. Very biased. Sexist at best.
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