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Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

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  #11  
Old 01-16-2018, 09:30 PM
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arabian arabian is offline
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Judges look at at facts and not fiction.

Your ex could have a chronic migraine headache (which is quite debilitating) but income for the purpose of determining support will be based of documentation. Judges do not make rulings on "coulda shoulda" sort of things. To say one is "stressed" would open the questioning - well how long are you going to be "stressed" for? Totally bogus BS IMO. Don't get sidetracked by this.

Your ex would have to apply to have the income readdressed AFTER a year or so.

Don't get stressed out or sucked into this sheat.

Documents, documents, documents - this is the most important.
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:50 AM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Originally Posted by kate331 View Post
My ex informed me today that duty council at the Family Court advised him to take a leave of absence from work during the court proceedings. So he is now currently on stress leave, with a letter from his Family Doctor.
Behind the letter is a medical diagnosis. 9 times out of 10 it is an Adjustment Disorder (with various conditions) which is the most commonly diagnosed reason someone is absent from work for medical reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustment_disorder

Generally, the letter from the Family Doctor will be vague on the medical condition of the patient which is standard practice. But, there is an underlying diagnosis behind the letter.

Here is how it would be properly clinically coded which may help you understand it all better: http://traumadissociation.com/adjustment

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Originally Posted by kate331 View Post
I think its unethical for a lawyer to do this, but I guess anything goes in Family Court.
Absolutely not nor is it uncommon. Good legal professionals will ALWAYS recommend their clients seek appropriate medical attention where they are not experts. It would be unethical of the lawyer to say everything is fine don't go to the doctors.

It is so common for one (or both) of the parties in a conflicted family law matter to be on disability for a mental health condition. Especially if their employer has disability leave insurance benefits.

The first order of business is someone's health... Especially parents! In a society that is finally starting to recognize and accept mental health issues would it be UNETHICAL for anyone to recommend this?!

There are talks of providing "divorce leave" to employees. It may be the same as parental leave etc... It's really horrible to say that someone who is experiencing a mental health episode is not allowed to take leave.

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Originally Posted by kate331 View Post
Has anyone else heard of this as tactic in Family Law?
It is not a tactic. It is as common as teeth actually. When you go looking for something negative... You can always find it.

My advice would be to not interfere and make the situation worse for the other party. It is NOT a tactic. If a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL has recommended this treatment who are you to say otherwise? It would be UNETHICAL for a DOCTOR to put someone on leave who did not have a proper diagnosis. Doctors don't just willy-nilly do this kind of stuff.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
That seems to be odd advice. It’s not like a broken leg where you know in 6 weeks time the cast is off, your leg is healed and you can go back to work. Taking stress leave during “court proceedings”? So you’re expected to take 6-20 years off work?
Mental health awareness has failed on this forum. Yes, mental health is not like a broken leg... But, comparing it to one is ignorant. Furthermore, it is common. Stress leave is generally mapped to an actual diagnosis. Generally it is an Adjustment Disorder. Which has a specific range and criteria for diagnosis.

Trust me, Sunlife and other insurance providers require a clinical diagnosis for temporary disability insurance. It isn't "stress leave". A MEDICAL DOCTOR has made the MEDICAL DECISION.

https://cmha.ca/mental-health/

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Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
Good way to lose your job.
Lots of employers have temporary disability insurance programs.

For example:

http://www.sunlife.com/us/For+busine...gnLocale=en_CA

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Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
Better to take time off to go into intensive therapy and treatment for a time limited period rather than “during court proceedings”.
A medical doctor is actually overseeing the care of the individual. Generally this is not the best treatment path for an adjustment disorder.

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Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
Your lawyer can request his medical and treatment records as he will have to show the court why he is taking time off and must show that it is legitimate, not just a strategy to reduce his obligations. Same goes for a mother who does this.
Actually, this is an incorrect assumption often made. The courts often do not enforce these requests. WorkingDad has been requesting this for years and the other parent for that matter has been found to be ABUSIVE to the children.

A lawyer can make this request but, no one should ever provide this disclosure to another party. Personal health information (PHI) should be held in the strictest of confidence.

A confirmation from a doctor should be sufficient and you have that in the form of a letter.

Do you want to escalate the conflict to atomic bomb levels? Request medical disclosure and say someone is faking it when they have a medical doctor behind them. You will be seen as the high-conflict party in this matter.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:11 PM
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I think much might depend upon which province you reside in. I believe (this is merely my opinion... based on not much) that Ontario has a significantly higher number of people on disability (ODSP?) as government perhaps wants to skew economic indicators? (unemployment). I gather that people can, indeed, get doctor's letters quite easily.

In Alberta this sort of thing would be scoffed at. Patient would require much more than the family physician's note and typically a second opinion/diagnosis would be required.

My ex has tried all sorts of medical reasons throughout his years of taking me to court. He has failed each and every time because a) he is healthy and b) he lacks appropriate documentation to support his claims.

Doctors don't have the time or interest to be called into court as expert witnesses. You have stress you go to a shrink and get your documentation for court. Even that isn't an easy thing to do. Courts would not view it as permanent anyhow.

I do agree with Rioe though - your ex wants to stay home/stress leave then he is better positioned to look after kids?

Last edited by arabian; 01-18-2018 at 09:16 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:56 PM
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I am in Ontario, and the Dr's letter is from a GP (not a specialist). Absolutely, I will be asking for his access time to increase to reduce my daycare fees My lawyer keeps telling me that access order are really hard to enforce. i.e. if he doesn't take them, a court cant make him.
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  #16  
Old 01-19-2018, 04:04 PM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kate331 View Post
I am in Ontario, and the Dr's letter is from a GP (not a specialist). Absolutely, I will be asking for his access time to increase to reduce my daycare fees My lawyer keeps telling me that access order are really hard to enforce. i.e. if he doesn't take them, a court cant make him.
You don’t need a specialist to be written off on stress leave... I find it rather ironic that people are stating this is a tactic for him when he is trying to take care of his mental health. How soon we forget the dad that murdered his two daughters... he clearly had mental health issues... maybe if he had sought help and took some time off to clear his head those two girls would still be alive. Mental illness is real. Not enough is done for those who battle mental illness. Kudos to dad for following his drs advice. I wish more parents would take care of their mental wellbeing rather than push it aside and have it affect their parenting
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  #17  
Old 01-19-2018, 07:18 PM
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I can only hope that with the letter from the GP, came a referral (which I am unaware of) to someone that specializes in mental health and there would be some kind of therapy to follow.

Apparently CAS was unaware of this (we have an open file, pending a court ruling), so hopefully now that they are, there will be another set of eyes and ears to monitor and help with resources for him. As much as I dislike the intrusion in our lives, they are pretty good at helping with resources and following up.
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  #18  
Old 01-19-2018, 09:53 PM
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Tayken put your glasses on and read the part where I said it’s NOT like a broken leg. I stand by my conviction that stress leave is not and never will be like a broken leg.
I also stand my my conviction if you take 6 or more years off work it is an excellent way to lose your job. Even unionized workplaces give you the boot after three years off. It is extremely ignorant to think an employer will keep you on if you are off for 6 or more years on stress leave!
In order for one to keep their job the stress leave will have to be time limited in accordance with their employer’s sick policy and short and long term disability insurance, not for the duration of “court proceedings”. The insurance has standard blocks of time they calculate you should have off depending on your illness. You would also go for frequent reassessments by a specialist to monitor your improvement.
Advising a client to go on stress leave (6-20+ years) for court proceedings is ludicrous!
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  #19  
Old 01-20-2018, 06:52 AM
Berner_Faith Berner_Faith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kate331 View Post
I can only hope that with the letter from the GP, came a referral (which I am unaware of) to someone that specializes in mental health and there would be some kind of therapy to follow.

Apparently CAS was unaware of this (we have an open file, pending a court ruling), so hopefully now that they are, there will be another set of eyes and ears to monitor and help with resources for him. As much as I dislike the intrusion in our lives, they are pretty good at helping with resources and following up.
Just an FYI ... I was written off work for stress two years ago. I was never referred to a specialist or therapist because my stress was cout nauseated situational (high stress job, working 70 or more hours a week, at one point worked 37 days straight, etc)... I was stressed out and run down. After three months on sick leave I found a new job and I haven’t been stressed out since. In your ex’s case, his stress is most likely situational as well (court battles)... not much a therapist can help him with there... they can’t take away the stress of family court. Although I guess he could vent to them and they could be a shoulder to cry on

I’m not saying what he did is right but doctors don’t just write people off and if he has benefits through his employer for sick leave, he would have to prove to them this was doctors orders. Hopefully he can deal with his stress and get back to work
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  #20  
Old 01-20-2018, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
I also stand my my conviction if you take 6 or more years off work it is an excellent way to lose your job. Even unionized workplaces give you the boot after three years off. It is extremely ignorant to think an employer will keep you on if you are off for 6 or more years on stress leave!
https://www.insure.com/disability-in...isability.html

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Some policies pay out as long as you are disabled until age 65.
Good Luck!
Tayken
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