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  #1  
Old 06-02-2016, 01:47 PM
freckles1234 freckles1234 is offline
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Default Gender Bias in court and OCL?

For the sake of the matter (because gender bias seems to always be present. I am going to use parent 1 and parent 2.

Parent 1 and Parent 2 never really had a relationship more than making babies so to speak. They ended up with 3 children. 2 boys and a girl. Parent 1 and Parent 2 had not had any relationship other than parents of the children since late 2007 when the last pregnancy was already in full swing. In August 2013, Parent 2 got married and Parent 1 has not had a relationship.

Parent 1 obtained full custody in 2010 of all 3 children. This was on consent as Parent 2 did not want to drag the kids through court and the kids spent most of their time with Parent 1 anyways. Parent 2 pays Parent 1 $1236 a month in child support and Parent 1 is on Welfare and has been since the first was born (12 years now)

In February 2014, Parent 1 called Parent 2 and said the eldest (a boy who was 9 at the time) was having some issues and wanted to come and live with Parent 2. Parent 2 agreed and the eldest boy moved in however continued to go to Parent 1's house before and after school so that a change in schools wouldn't be necessary that year (he has ADHD so it would have been detrimental to him as he is already behind in school)

In May 2014, Parent 1 again called Parent 2 and said the middle (a boy who was turning 9 that month) wanted to move with Parent 2 as well. Parent 2 agreed and middle child was put on the same schedule. (Parent 2 had every other weekend with all the kids as well)

In June 2014, Parent 1 again called and said that they were going to loose their apartment and Parent 2 needed to take the last child (a girl who was 6 at the time). She officially moved in on July 1st.

Fast forward to September 1st and Parent 1 officially lost their apartment. Parent 2 decided that since Parent 1 was couch surfing, that it would be best, when Parent 1 wanted to see the kids, that Parent 1 do so at Parent 2's house. Parent 1 ended up staying on the couch off and on for a period of 5 months. (Parent 1 would stay anywhere from 1 night to 2 weeks at a time depending on their mood)

February 2015, Parent 1 stayed on Parent 2's couch for the last time and decided they wanted to stay at friends houses instead.

April 2015, Parent 1 and Parent 2 come to an agreement of joint custody with 50/50 access to start when Parent 1 gets an apartment again. It was signed and witnessed however when Parent 2 went to file the agreement, the court clerk refused to take it without a 35.1 affidavit for custody from both parents. Parent 2 asked Parent 1 repeatedly for it however it was never provided.

On June 23rd, Parent 2 had Parent 1 served with court papers for a motion to change based on the situation and the face that Parent 2 was still paying C/S and wanted it to stop since the children resided in their home.

On July 10th, Parent 1 took the children for their weekend and sent a text message on July 12th saying they have custody and they are keeping the kids until a judge orders otherwise and for 47 days refused to let Parent 2 see or spend time with the children.

Fast forward to April and Parent 2 had a temporary order in place for every weekend access and an OCL was concluding their investigation. Parent 1 and Parent 2 again agreed to joint custody while at a case conference and agreed to write up the agreement and went in front of the judge to let the judge know that there was an agreement. 2 days later, Parent 1 "didn't remember" parts of the agreement and changed what they were agreeing to which was less than 50/50 custody so Parent 2 disagreed.

OCL disclosure then happened and the OCL found:

Parent 1: has severe mental health issues, is transient, has had CAS involved for 11 years and the state of their home has been called into question, the children have been late more than 30 times to school this year, Has at time used alienating tactics, Parent 1 admits to involving the children in the adult issues. They however found that the relationship between Parent 1 and the children was good.

Parent 2: has charges from 23 years ago but wasn't convicted, has "no structure" based on what Parent 1 stated, and there is an element of unknown since the OCL did not see the children while living with Parent 2. They found that the relationship between Parent 2 and the children was good.

The boys now 11 and 12 stated they want to live with Parent 2 however the OCL believe BECAUSE they have ADHD, they should not be given any consideration for what they want.

OCL recommends: full custody to Parent 1, primary residency to Parent 1, Parent 2 to have access every 3 out of 4 weekends.

Now we wait until the July 13th settlement meeting to see if an agreement can still be made.

Now that you have read this, I am sure you can tell which gender each parent are I am Parent 2.

Parent 1 has sent told me that she will give me any amount of time under the 40% threshold because she wants to keep her welfare and baby bonus however of course, I do not have proof of this.

I am not even sure how to proceed and to be honest my lawyer is definitely not on my side and basically told me to either settle with OCL recommendations or pay tens of thousands of dollars in trial that he isn't even going to entertain sending any offers to settle or trying to get back on the same page. Anyone ever been in a similar situation?
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  #2  
Old 06-03-2016, 01:35 AM
Links17 Links17 is offline
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Parent 2 is the Dad
Parent 1 is the Mom

Everybody knows there is a gender bias in family court no honest person would disagree when people write articles they use he/she to identify the parties as they normally are (CS recipient etc...)

haha, epic... you should have come here before. You had the perfect setup and you scewed it up.


Listen, if what you are saying is true..... Self-represent, go to trial, prove every part of your story. Have your children speak to the judge, get her communications, prove her living conditions.... etc...

You seem like sap to have done what you did so I doubt you will play it right....but you never know.

If I were you , I would take 39% immediately without prejudice -once the kids are in your care with an unstable mother they will once again want to live with you. I would file a motion for sole custody and I would win

I would record a conversation of her admitting you'e a good dad etc... and she would give what you but under 40%. I would love to have that played in a court room.

There will be no agreement if you don't agree to pay 100% Child support, don't imagine.

Get rid of your lawyer, they are so jaded they don't believe in the process, they are just collecting pay cheques.

Don't let bureacracy, systems, strangers tell you what to do.... Go to a judge and demand your children.

Also, there is an official position that children of the same gender need that parent MORE than the other. There is also another position NOT to seperate the children.

You probably believe kids need their mom as a basic truth, this isn't the 17th century, having a baby just means you got pregnant and has nothing to do with your parenting skills. Wake up before you give your kids to a welfare bum... Tonnes of sluts are shitty mothers who just happened to get screwed and now they are "mothers".... there is nothing about it that makes them deserving of motherhood..

Last edited by Links17; 06-03-2016 at 01:40 AM.
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  #3  
Old 06-03-2016, 03:56 AM
undersc0re undersc0re is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Parent 2 is the Dad
Parent 1 is the Mom

Everybody knows there is a gender bias in family court no honest person would disagree when people write articles they use he/she to identify the parties as they normally are (CS recipient etc...)

haha, epic... you should have come here before. You had the perfect setup and you scewed it up.


Listen, if what you are saying is true..... Self-represent, go to trial, prove every part of your story. Have your children speak to the judge, get her communications, prove her living conditions.... etc...

You seem like sap to have done what you did so I doubt you will play it right....but you never know.

If I were you , I would take 39% immediately without prejudice -once the kids are in your care with an unstable mother they will once again want to live with you. I would file a motion for sole custody and I would win

I would record a conversation of her admitting you'e a good dad etc... and she would give what you but under 40%. I would love to have that played in a court room.

There will be no agreement if you don't agree to pay 100% Child support, don't imagine.

Get rid of your lawyer, they are so jaded they don't believe in the process, they are just collecting pay cheques.

Don't let bureacracy, systems, strangers tell you what to do.... Go to a judge and demand your children.

Also, there is an official position that children of the same gender need that parent MORE than the other. There is also another position NOT to seperate the children.

You probably believe kids need their mom as a basic truth, this isn't the 17th century, having a baby just means you got pregnant and has nothing to do with your parenting skills. Wake up before you give your kids to a welfare bum... Tonnes of sluts are shitty mothers who just happened to get screwed and now they are "mothers".... there is nothing about it that makes them deserving of motherhood..
Wow, well said. Totally agree.
Whatever you do, take action towards bettering your children's lives immediately...even if its one little step at a time.
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  #4  
Old 06-03-2016, 06:38 AM
freckles1234 freckles1234 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Parent 2 is the Dad
Parent 1 is the Mom

Everybody knows there is a gender bias in family court no honest person would disagree when people write articles they use he/she to identify the parties as they normally are (CS recipient etc...)

haha, epic... you should have come here before. You had the perfect setup and you scewed it up.


Listen, if what you are saying is true..... Self-represent, go to trial, prove every part of your story. Have your children speak to the judge, get her communications, prove her living conditions.... etc...

You seem like sap to have done what you did so I doubt you will play it right....but you never know.

If I were you , I would take 39% immediately without prejudice -once the kids are in your care with an unstable mother they will once again want to live with you. I would file a motion for sole custody and I would win

I would record a conversation of her admitting you'e a good dad etc... and she would give what you but under 40%. I would love to have that played in a court room.

There will be no agreement if you don't agree to pay 100% Child support, don't imagine.

Get rid of your lawyer, they are so jaded they don't believe in the process, they are just collecting pay cheques.

Don't let bureacracy, systems, strangers tell you what to do.... Go to a judge and demand your children.

Also, there is an official position that children of the same gender need that parent MORE than the other. There is also another position NOT to seperate the children.

You probably believe kids need their mom as a basic truth, this isn't the 17th century, having a baby just means you got pregnant and has nothing to do with your parenting skills. Wake up before you give your kids to a welfare bum... Tonnes of sluts are shitty mothers who just happened to get screwed and now they are "mothers".... there is nothing about it that makes them deserving of motherhood..
I wish I had found this earlier. I thought I did play it the best I could. I have filed an emergency motion when she disrupted the kids lives, I am not sure what else I could have done.

I have 4 binders of evidence as I have told her I will only speak on email since July last year. We ran into her and the kids about a month ago where she stated that she can't loose that money but I wasn't prepared. I have pictures of her living conditions and many CAS reports of her living conditions are there however she has cleaned her house whenever people can for the last 4-5 months so my lawyer says everything I have is now outdated.

I have taken the 39% and have had it since February and have proof that I actually have the children more than that as she texts me atleast once, usually twice a week to ask me to take the kids however this is a temporary order, we have not yet gotten past the many case conference briefs because her lawyer keeps putting it off and my lawyer doesn't say anything. Last case conference it was put off because her lawyer showed up an hour late claiming he forgot about the case conference and needed it put off because he has plans with his wife.

My application is for full custody however I listened to too many lawyers at the time I filed my application and what they said can and can't happen. I got screwed. I agreed to settle for joint custody because she is constantly telling the kids horrible things and they are being affected by this.

I actually do not believe they need their mom as the kids themselves at 8,11 and 12 have already seen through her. I have spent the last month reading CanlII cases and am trying to figure out this crazy system but every time I turn around, its another brick wall and I am not good enough because I am dad.

The biggest problem is that I let her stay on my couch so she wasn't carting the kids around from place to place. She stayed inconsistently but I don't have proof of that. Her version of the story (from her CC brief is)

-She has had the children since they were born.
-In February 2014, oldest wanted to spend more time with me, so she hesitantly agreed and she let him move in for a couple of weeks but she had him before and after school, he just merely slept over at my house.
-In May 2014, Middle missed his brother so she agreed to let him stay but again he just merely slept at my house.
-In the summer of 2014, we shared the kids equally
-In September of 2014, her and youngest moved into my house and stayed until March 2014 when I was evicted from my home (which isn't true, it was a planned moved) She didn't have anywhere for the children to go so she left the children in my care
-In July 2015, she took the children back into her care where they have been ever since.

I have a CAS letter stating that I was primarily their caregiver from February, May and July 2014 until July 2015 (she had CAS involvement so when they lived with me, CAS was still around until either I got custody or she proved there were no more concerns), texts, emails, etc proving she did not live with me but was a visitor, that she took them back only after I served her court papers, pictures from her apartment she lost when my wife helped her pack and move the kids stuff to my house (most of it had to be thrown out because of the state of it), proof that she did not have a place for the children in July 2015 and took the children to a friends house to sleep on the living room floor until September 2015 when she got an apartment and used GoFund me for first and last and used "he is trying to take my kids away" to get money (CAS reports and Facebook posts from her and copy of GoFund me. All of this has been presented to the judge when I motioned to get the children back. I have truancy letters from their school, I have emails upon emails of her berating me and telling me that she has the power because she has custody and doesn't have to let me see them if she doesn't want to. Again, all of which has been presented, none of which the judge even blinked an eye to and she got to keep the kids. This happened during an emergency motion and a regular motion and the judge said unless the kids are in danger they will stay with her until another order is made.

I may sound like a sap, and I probably am but I am honestly at a loss of what I could have done differently or where to go. I have already demanded my children armed with lots of evidence and have been told no because she currently has custody.

Do you have any suggestions of where to look for information on going to court unrepresented because I feel like you just confirmed my suspicions that my lawyer is basically an over priced log.
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:01 PM
Links17 Links17 is offline
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Ok, not bad....

My personal perspective is a lot of lawyers are very jaded and they don't care want to upset the status quo (i.e: moms get full custody, dads pay CS) At this point EOW is really being phased out to becoming 39% custody arrangements...

You can never talk about 39% in a trial btw, she CAN say I am doing it for child support and the judge would give her a pass (poor mom!)

If I were you .... File a motion for full custody

In regards to the emergency motion, the judge's answer was normal. Emergency motions are "blood" or "airline tickets" someone once said. It isn't indicative of what will happen in a full hearing.

In a full hearing the judge will do full assessment.

You can get shared residency, maybe sole residency (I don't see specific things that will let you get sole).

The highlights of your case:
-She is historically unstable and has no plans for stability?
-What is her income situation now?
-The kids miss school
-Contrary to an order she kept the kids from you?
-Your new wife is a witness
-You are stable with reconstituted family
-Boys need their father

50/50 is in the bag, sole might be tougher. We haven't discussed if you have shown a change in circumstance though which is the first bar you need to pass.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:41 AM
freckles1234 freckles1234 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Ok, not bad....

My personal perspective is a lot of lawyers are very jaded and they don't care want to upset the status quo (i.e: moms get full custody, dads pay CS) At this point EOW is really being phased out to becoming 39% custody arrangements...

You can never talk about 39% in a trial btw, she CAN say I am doing it for child support and the judge would give her a pass (poor mom!)

If I were you .... File a motion for full custody

In regards to the emergency motion, the judge's answer was normal. Emergency motions are "blood" or "airline tickets" someone once said. It isn't indicative of what will happen in a full hearing.

In a full hearing the judge will do full assessment.

You can get shared residency, maybe sole residency (I don't see specific things that will let you get sole).

The highlights of your case:
-She is historically unstable and has no plans for stability?
-What is her income situation now?
-The kids miss school
-Contrary to an order she kept the kids from you?
-Your new wife is a witness
-You are stable with reconstituted family
-Boys need their father

50/50 is in the bag, sole might be tougher. We haven't discussed if you have shown a change in circumstance though which is the first bar you need to pass.
Thank you, I have come to terms that I cannot mention 39% and that I need to keep pushing to get more than the 39% which is why I took it when we did the temp order.

I filed the emergency motion when she first took the kids back and I figured it wouldn't work but was worth a shot. After the first case conference, I filed a regular motion for custody armed with piles of evidence and was told "She has had custody since the children were born. I am not willing to change a court order that has been in place for so many years. The kids should have never lived with you before the court order was changed."

As for the highlights of the case:

- Her landlord recently sold the house where she rents her 2 bedroom basement apartment (boys have a room, daughter has a room, mom sleeps in the living room) so when her lease is up in September, she doesn't know if she will be staying, moving 4 hours away or somewhere within Peel region (where we reside). None of which anyone other than me thinks is a concern.
- She is still on Ontario Works although from what I am told, they are taking part of her cheque because she lied about having the kids when I had them, she gets Child Tax and that is it. Her lawyer told my lawyer that she is looking to go back to work but she hasn't worked in 13 years, other than a 3 month stint at Burger King which she quit because "it was too stressful"
- Contrary to the order she kept them from me for 47 days, with texts saying she wants $500 to see them. The following weekend was she wanted to inspect my home (where the children had lived for the past year. And her saying that she doesn't trust me not to keep them so I won't be seeing them.

Do you know how much weight the OCL report will hold in court? My lawyer says its basically binding if we go to trial however I have written evidence that most of what she says about me is lies made up by my ex. Other than the OCL report, I have CAS on my side (her worker believes that I need atleast 50/50 custody because he knows her manipulation) and other evidence and think atleast shared custody is in the bag. Also, is ADHD alone a reason to not let my boys have a say in where they want to live? They both gave reasons:

Oldest: He moved to my house because he wanted to live with me and his mom agreed and now she won't let him choose again. He enjoys the time he has at my house and likes the school by my house better.

Middle: He was happier living with me and has many friends by my house and enjoyed school here.

However the OCL claims its because of a lack of rules at my house (I do have rules but she believed my ex about what goes on in my house, the report says it is information coming from ex and her friend) and because they have ADHD, they should not have the say anyways.

Thank for your help!
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:58 AM
Links17 Links17 is offline
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it seems by consensus here the the OCL is useless.

have you been to a full trial and had your motion denied? Or were you told that during a case conference?

You must realize the first step to breach is "Has there been a change in circumstance to justify changing the order?"
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:58 AM
freckles1234 freckles1234 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
it seems by consensus here the the OCL is useless.

have you been to a full trial and had your motion denied? Or were you told that during a case conference?

You must realize the first step to breach is "Has there been a change in circumstance to justify changing the order?"
Sorry, I am not sure I completely understand. I filed and served a motion to change in June 2015, we have had 1 emergency motion, denied, another motion after the second case conference (which was a one day motion and had me submit evidence and her submit evidence) denied because she had custody so she could do as she pleases pretty much, and continue to have case conferences but have not had a full blown trial to date. We have a settlement meeting in July and a finally case conference 4 days after this meeting. If there is no settlement, we will be moving on.

The judge has acknowledged that the change in circumstances existed at the time the motion was filed and therefore should continue in court. My ex, 3 months after taking the kids back motioned to have the case dismissed as she was now following the court order but judge denied it saying there was a change present at the time of filing. The material change was the children were residing with me which my ex agrees they were living with me, but the length of time is disputed as she claims she lived with me and my wife for a period of time.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:33 PM
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it seems by consensus here the the OCL is useless
They are useless.
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Old 06-06-2016, 02:03 PM
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You're too long winded, just answer the questions. It helps you in trial too....


Quote:
(which was a one day motion and had me submit evidence and her submit evidence) denied because she had custody so she could do as she pleases pretty much, and continue to have case conferences but have not had a full blown trial to date.
So basically you still have a trial eventually (I don't know what a "one-day" trial is)? Just move towards getting to trial.

Things are normally either temporary/interim judgements or FINAL judgements. Temporary judgements are non-prejudicial which means they cannot be used as the basis of "status quo" this is VERY important to understand. Final Judgements or consent agreements or unopposed realities DO create a status quo...
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