Almost there - stuck on one part!

[CatvsLion]

Well after the psychologist report, my x is again wanting to settle. This time though it seems more promising, so far.

We've actually agreed on everything but we're stuck on one part of the seperation agreement. After some quarell of wording we managed to get it all but she won't agree to put in 'day-to-day decisions be made by whomever our daughter is with' .

Is there an obvious way to convience her why this should be in or why I might agree to not have this in? What consists of 'day-to'day' anyway? I merely explained that I didnt' want to get a call from her everytime she wanted to go to the mall etc..

[Lindsay]

Hi CatvsLion,

The clause you are referring to likely sounds a lot like this:

The parent residing with the child at the relevant time will make the daily decisions affecting her welfare.

Synonyms of "welfare" include support, happiness and well-being.

I'm not sure why your ex wouldn't agree to putting this in the agreement either. The whole premise behind joint custody is to allow each parent to share the responsibility of being a parent. Obviously, the responsibility of a parent is to make basic decisions regarding the children.

I'm sure your agreement will also set out that you and your ex are to make important decisions about your daughter's welfare together (or one is to consult the other before making the decision). "Important decisions" usually include decisions regarding your daughter's education, non-emergency health care, major recreational activities and religion. So, it's not like you're going to be able to enroll your child in a Swedish boarding school during your parenting time without your ex knowing about it.

The only reasoning I can come up with is it that she doesn't trust you to make the right decisions regarding your daughter's basic needs and welfare. Either that or it's a delay tactic. Has she provided any kind of explanation as to why she doesn't want this clause included?

Lindsay

[CatvsLion]

Hi CatvsLion,

The only reasoning I can come up with is it that she doesn't trust you to make the right decisions regarding your daughter's basic needs and welfare. Either that or it's a delay tactic. Has she provided any kind of explanation as to why she doesn't want this clause included?

Lindsay

We do have a clause in there that we have to discuss important decisions with each other - we also have in there if one of us is unable to get ahold of the other in the event of emergency that whomever our daughter is with has full authority.

The reasoning behind her not wanting to put this in, is because she didn't like an event I took our daughter to on one instance and doesn't trust my judgement because of that. (even though it was merely a difference of opinion and our daughter was in no harm) She also said that she doesn't want me to call her for everything (and vis-versa) and wants to go by the day-to-day decisions, but that she doesn't want it in the agreement as it'll give her no say if I decide to goto an event she doesn't approve of. (but the agreement doesn't say I have to councel her or not - so it just leaves it open).

I don't think it's really a delay tatic at this point - as she has agreed to everything else that previously she wasn't. In my view she just feels like she's given up so much that she doesn't want to put this in there eventhough she wants to go by it.

My dilema is that it's the only thing preventing us from signing and does it really need to be in the agreement if the majority of the agreement demonstrates it being in place. If it's not in there what say do either of us have if we don't like some event etc - and we wouldn't know about it until afterwards anyway.

these are her words:
if it falls into place, then it doesn't need to be written in.
I don't think you need to check with me if you're taking her to the
mall or whatever, but you know what I mean.
I do not trust your judgement, you put your own interest ahead of
hers, I am just saying that if you have big plans or to take her to
an event that I would find questionable, I would like to be consulted.
obviously I don't mean for regular stuff,,but I am afraid that if I
write that in there, you will take her somewhere that I feel is
unfit & I will have no say.

[logicalvelocity]

catsvlion,

these are her words:
if it falls into place, then it doesn't need to be written in.
I don't think you need to check with me if you're taking her to the
mall or whatever, but you know what I mean.
I do not trust your judgement, you put your own interest ahead of
hers, I am just saying that if you have big plans or to take her to
an event that I would find questionable, I would like to be consulted.
obviously I don't mean for regular stuff,,but I am afraid that if I
write that in there, you will take her somewhere that I feel is
unfit & I will have no say.

You have a control issue on your hands. This person is trying to control the venue and the life of the child's at all times even when the child is in your care and control. The other parent has no right to interfere or to control what one parent or the activities they do with the child, unless the child would be in harm by participating in same.

I would avoid all clauses that pertain to give her the veto or the final word on where you take your child.

ie: if you want to take you child to a community pool, beach, camping in essence she could stop you.

She could say that the possibility exists of an accident, sunburn, west nile virus, the list goes on and on.

lv

[Lindsay]

You have a control issue on your hands. This person is trying to control the venue and the life of the child's at all times even when the child is in your care and control.

I agree! I believe that if your ex seriously didn't trust your judgment and believed that you put your own needs before your daughters, then she wouldn't be agreeing to joint custody. She simply wants to have the upper hand.

Say two parties enter into a separation agreement where party A has sole custody and party B is to have reasonable access. The parties have continuously disagreed in the past about how much access party B should get. If the access clause in their agreement doesn't set out specific times and simply states "Access to be agreed to between the parties," party B is really setting himself/herself up for a real struggle. So, any issue that is left open or is loosely defined, especially an issue that is contested, leaves a huge margin for interpretation.

So, to answer your question whether it is important if the clause regarding day-to-day decisions is in the agreement, IMO, yes. It is especially important since your ex has trust issues for whatever reason and this issue is particularly sensitive.

Lindsay

[workingthruit]

another thought

I agree completely that she is just trying to maintain as much control as possible - maybe just the nature of being a mom - maybe just to play games with you ...

here is my suggestion - what about agreeing to 'day to day decisions in the best interest of the child' - and add a clause that stipulates that if there is a disagreement as to what is in the best interest of the child, that can't be settled between the two of you, you will attend with a parenting co-ordinator, who will mediate the situation, and if neccesary, has powers of arbitration.

That way, your ex will feel like she still has some control, but you would always have a chance to tell your side of the story to a neutral 3rd party.

In the end what she needs to realize (and what we all have to come to terms with at some point) is that even the most loving and dedicated parent can't dictate or control what happens at the other parents home - once she accepts that, her life will be much, much nicer!

Does she realize that by her trying to limit what you do with your daughter, she would have to accept the same limitations on her lifestyle? i.e. You would have say over the decisions that should be making as well? I would think that you will never be able to move forward with your own lives if you still have to consult with each other on what events to attend and what brand of soap to buy ... LOL (exaggeration, but you know what I mean!!!)

[CatvsLion]

Ok - what if it's not in there ... either way. (as she wants it)

Basically it's not saying that she has final say and as I understand if I do take our daughter to an event that she doesn't approve of; it'll be after the event. (as she doesn't want me to call her for everything) At that point she'd have to prove that my parenting ability was bad to get anything changed.

On the other had, what if she finds out before the event and doesn't want me to take her - she still has not say does she - as it's not in there that she has final say. What is in there is if we don't agree we have to go see a 3rd party, lawyers, litigation etc..

I think I'm ok with it the way it is (to finalize this anyway) - it does leave it open but I think it would be put on her to get it changed for what she wants it to be.

We'll see what her lawyer says abot it (that's what we're waiting for right now) My lawyer raised the same issues but also the above was said.

Thanks for the help/suggestions all.