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  • Well Now I’m Confused

    Went to the courthouse today to get my affidavit sworn to and book a motion date for a summary judgement.

    First I went into the office where they file the applications etc to do my affidavit, which is also the FLIC office. I tell the lady that I am going to pop over to the office next to hers to get a motion date set. She asks long or short? I tell her it’s for a summary judgement. She says, oh they will probably need to book you in for a long motion for that one then. Ok, fine, whatever I gotta do.

    So I go next door. Here is my convo with that lady:

    Me: I’d like to book a motion date
    Her: Ok we have “x,y, and z available”
    Me: Ok I’ll take y
    Her: What’s it for
    Me: A summary judgement to impute income and final order for CS and arrears
    Her: Oh we don’t do summary judgements for child support
    Me: Why not?
    Her: You need to talk to FLIC
    Me: I just did.
    Her: Ya but did you tell her you were looking for a summary judgement?
    Me: Yes
    Her One minute (goes into FLIC’s office)
    Comes back.... “Ya, no you can’t do a motion for a summary judgement for child support, it’s just not done”
    Me: “But I’ve seen dozens of cases that have seen successful motions made for summary judgements on CS? I have ROE’s, affidavits from employers, EI benefit letters etc, enough to show what the Resp made/is making.”
    Her: Well then you need to have a SC
    Me: I already had an SC, he refuses to pay a penny more than the temporary consent order. There is no point wasting the courts time and resources trying to take this to trial when it is blatantly obvious what this guy should be paying. I thought the whole idea of a summary judgement is that it is to be used for matters that have no genuine issues for trial? This matter has no genuine issue for trial.
    Her: Where did you get that definition from? (Like I’m some sort of deranged lunatic)
    Me: Ummm section 16 of the Family Law Rules literally says that a final order can be made on matters that have no genuine issue for trial??? (wtf?!?)
    Her: (now defensive and extra snooty) Well it’s not up to me to decide which matters get heard as summary judgements and which ones don’t. That’s up to the Justice
    Me:.......... but...... you just told me that I can’t have a motion heard for a summary judgement? Does that mean I can now.....?
    Her:.......... (starts writing furiously on piece of paper, storms over to the photocopy machine and slams it through) Well you can have date “y” for a regular motion, you’re not getting a summary judgment motion though (Thrusts piece of paper with motion date at me) Here.... you can do whatever you like with it. (Then proceeds to turn her back on me, making it clear that she is not speaking to me anymore)



    Yikes. I figured the courts were under pressure and having to deal with a lot of dumb crap since the recent cutbacks but HOLLLLLYYYYYY SHIT.

    So now I guess I will just file a regular motion for what? Arrears? S7’s? But the arrears and S7’s should be based on what he was actually making, not the $150/month he temporarily consented to paying. But I can’t file a regular motion to impute income can I?

    Uggggghhhh. FFS.

  • #2
    I would still file the motion for summary judgement and use your case law in it. The clerks and judges have different knowledge. Hell the courthouse we deal with fucks up dates and responses completely to the point where my husband received an apology for the fuck up in the trial coordinators office.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ya after talking to the trial coordinator I went back into FLIC’s office.... the lady who works the desk there has always been very nice and helpful. I explained the run around that the trial coordinator gave me and asked her what she thought I should do? She was like well ya you can go to the regular motion and maybe just test the waters on what the Justice thinks about a summary judgement? And she said that they just don’t see too many summary judgement motions there, unless it’s something like a CAS matter, so they aren’t really sure how it would go over (small town problems I guess?)

      But you think I should just go ahead and file still as if I’m walking into a summary judgement? I don’t want to get chewed apart by a judge for paperwork inconsistencies.... or worse get slapped with costs if they’re having a bad day.

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't care what cut backs made her treat you that way and I don't care if she is having a bad day. She has no right to treat you like shit. Such insensitive assholes. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. The system is broken in so many ways. Like you had nothing better to do than to visit the court house just to make her do some work.

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow sorry you had to put up with that!! You kind of know my issues. And my lawyer just said to me on Friday if he doesn’t accept my new offer that after this SC we can bring a summary judgement for child support and arrears. Which I swear the judge said no to at last SC... but I guess you don’t need a judges permission to file for it. He said that way I would at least have an order for child support and arrears.

          He also said the bar is not as high as it used to be for summary judgements. What if you paid to consult a lawyer on your material? At least that’s cheaper than paying costs... I’m sure a lawyer could look over and give opinion if what you have is doable?


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
            Which I swear the judge said no to at last SC... but I guess you don’t need a judges permission to file for it. He said that way I would at least have an order for child support and arrears.

            He also said the bar is not as high as it used to be for summary judgements. What if you paid to consult a lawyer on your material? At least that’s cheaper than paying costs... I’m sure a lawyer could look over and give opinion if what you have is doable?
            I feel like because it is such a small town the court clerks/trial coordinators just have never seen or heard of a situation where a summary judgement is used for CS. Pair that with the fact that they’re overrun with self reps not having any sort of clue since the recent cutbacks, and they get their backs up immediately.
            I think I might file what I have but leave the term “summary judgement” out of everything and just ask for a final order for CS based on an imputed income, arrears, and past and future s7’s. Worst case scenario (hopefully) is that I will get a final order for past arrears and s7’s and no final order for imputed income for future CS.
            Probably a good idea too to pay $300 or so for an hour consultation to have a lawyer look over everything and get their input before filing too

            Comment


            • #7
              Didn't someone make this comment below in your original thread about your this summary judgement motion?

              Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
              ....I don't think you understand the legal system well enough to attempt something like this...


              I'm actually not a lawyer, but I stand by my knowledge and first hand experience on these things.

              1. This thread is a clear indication that you don't know what you're doing.

              2. The fact that you just can't seem to get along with people who disagree with you, i.e., a trial coordinator (my favorite person in my local court house) is also troublesome.

              3. Since you can't get along with the trial coordinator and managed to piss her off to that point, I guarantee you will have a hard time getting along with the motions judge.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sucessfuljourney View Post
                Didn't someone make this comment below in your original thread about your this summary judgement motion?





                I'm actually not a lawyer, but I stand by my knowledge and first hand experience on these things.

                1. This thread is a clear indication that you don't know what you're doing.

                2. The fact that you just can't seem to get along with people who disagree with you, i.e., a trial coordinator (my favorite person in my local court house) is also troublesome.

                3. Since you can't get along with the trial coordinator and managed to piss her off to that point, I guarantee you will have a hard time getting along with the motions judge.
                did you just make another account so you could talk/agree with yourself?

                lol.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well jeez aren’t we a bright ray of sunshine today?

                  For the record:

                  1. I would LOVE to have a lawyer. Unfortunately I can’t afford one, not even a little bit. I am putting myself through school starting next month, I haven’t received proper child support for over 2 years ($0 for over a year and a half), I don’t qualify for any sort of line of credit, and I don’t have rich family members willing to lend me money. Oh and I don’t qualify for Legal Aid. So if you would like I can start a gofundme and you can contribute?

                  2. Tunnelight’s opinion(s) are based on his own experiences with his ex. While at times helpful, the truth is that his ex was trying to randomly impute income on him with no evidence, hoping for a bigger chunk of money. AND I believe he and his ex came to their final agreement on consent- nothing was ever ordered by a judge. I have ROE’s, resignation letters, affidavits from former employers and a summary letter from EI, all which clearly outline how much my ex was making up until last year. He never paid for 2017/2018 AT ALL, because he “didn’t want to” and now he is paying $150/month because he is self employed and he was pressured into consenting to pay something by the judge.

                  3. I always get along great with the ladies in the FLIC office where I have to file all my paperwork. The trial coordinator’s attitude took a turn for the worse on me when she asked where I got my definition of a summary judgement from and my response was “the Family Law Rules”. I was nice as pie to her but I’m guessing like I said that she is frustrated with the recent cutbacks and people not knowing what they are doing. Which I still don’t 100%. But I’m trying, because I have no other options (unless you still want to contribute to that gofundme?)

                  4. I agree, Google is no replacement for a law degree. Google needs to be fact checked. That’s why I use Canlii.

                  Do you have any helpful suggestions? Just trying my best here. I know I’m going to get where I want to be with my matter, even without a lawyer. Yes it will take longer, yes I will probably get scolded by a judge occasionally for not doing something the correct way. But I literally have no other options and my daughter deserves to live a good life.

                  (Did I mention her dad just left a few days ago for his SECOND all inclusive vacay down south this year? And I had to scrape money together for back to school shopping. Sigh)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Selfrepmom View Post
                    Well jeez aren’t we a bright ray of sunshine today?



                    For the record:



                    1. I would LOVE to have a lawyer. Unfortunately I can’t afford one, not even a little bit. I am putting myself through school starting next month, I haven’t received proper child support for over 2 years ($0 for over a year and a half), I don’t qualify for any sort of line of credit, and I don’t have rich family members willing to lend me money. Oh and I don’t qualify for Legal Aid. So if you would like I can start a gofundme and you can contribute?



                    2. Tunnelight’s opinion(s) are based on his own experiences with his ex. While at times helpful, the truth is that his ex was trying to randomly impute income on him with no evidence, hoping for a bigger chunk of money. AND I believe he and his ex came to their final agreement on consent- nothing was ever ordered by a judge. I have ROE’s, resignation letters, affidavits from former employers and a summary letter from EI, all which clearly outline how much my ex was making up until last year. He never paid for 2017/2018 AT ALL, because he “didn’t want to” and now he is paying $150/month because he is self employed and he was pressured into consenting to pay something by the judge.



                    3. I always get along great with the ladies in the FLIC office where I have to file all my paperwork. The trial coordinator’s attitude took a turn for the worse on me when she asked where I got my definition of a summary judgement from and my response was “the Family Law Rules”. I was nice as pie to her but I’m guessing like I said that she is frustrated with the recent cutbacks and people not knowing what they are doing. Which I still don’t 100%. But I’m trying, because I have no other options (unless you still want to contribute to that gofundme?)



                    4. I agree, Google is no replacement for a law degree. Google needs to be fact checked. That’s why I use Canlii.



                    Do you have any helpful suggestions? Just trying my best here. I know I’m going to get where I want to be with my matter, even without a lawyer. Yes it will take longer, yes I will probably get scolded by a judge occasionally for not doing something the correct way. But I literally have no other options and my daughter deserves to live a good life.



                    (Did I mention her dad just left a few days ago for his SECOND all inclusive vacay down south this year? And I had to scrape money together for back to school shopping. Sigh)


                    You go mom!! You are strong! Patient, fair and doing your best!! No one should fault you for that. It takes a brave person to try to navigate the courts by themselves. Just keep fighting for the information you need and you will come out on top sooner or latter. Sooner I hope.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Update:

                      Forked over $300 and spoke to a lawyer to make sure I am on the right path.

                      After looking over my material she had no issue supporting my original thoughts to ask for an order to impute income at $40,000 along with an order for CS, arrears and s7’s based on that.
                      She said do not mention “final order” or “summary judgement” in my material. Just ask for an order, and let the judge decide whether they want to make it temporary or final. Her thoughts behind this- my motion date I have is only for a short motion. Long motion dates are few and far between. If I start throwing around the words “final order” and “summary judgement”, the Justice will automatically want to put my matter over until the next available long motion date (aka god only knows when). She seems to think I have enough evidence, and as long as I stick to the main facts and don’t over-confuse things, the Justice will be willing to hear it at my upcoming motion date.
                      Other points she made that were helpful:
                      - There is a chance that they won’t deal with arrears at this motion, because that is something that can take time. She made a great point though that if the Justice does dismiss the portion of my motion for arrears based on this, to at the end stand up and politely ask the Justice to clarify that I am still allowed to bring forth the issue of arrears at trial (this makes sure that it is on the record as being allowed, otherwise I could screw myself for arrears in the future)

                      - To include a clause that the Respondent must secure life insurance with me as the IRREVOCABLE beneficiary (to cover CS in the event he dies)

                      -That if I am only granted a temporary order, to motion (14b) for more disclosure including my ex’s current partner’s banking info (as it seems he is running all his self employment income through her)


                      At the end of our meeting she complimented me on my self rep work thus far. She said that she was impressed with my material and level of organization and knowledge.

                      Such a relief to know I am on the right track. Now off to finalize my motion material and serve it on my ex.

                      Thank you all for your continued knowledge and words of wisdom. I will keep you updated.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That’s great news!!! Perhaps this will be my hurdle with my arrears as well. The arrears part. The judge did tell us it’s a triable issue on arrears. Except my lawyer seems to think summary judgement is in order.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                        • #13
                          Yes she said arrears usually take more time because the judge likes to look back and see why it wasn’t paid to begin with, when the recipient began asking for payment, etc etc.
                          She said still ask for it, but be prepared to not get anything on the short motion.
                          She seemed to think that ongoing CS based off of the $40,000 and s.7’s will be a home run for me though. Just a question of whether it will be a temporary or final order.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I understand that especially in cases where someone is asking for arrears based on failure to update that it could get confusing on how far to go back, when updates were asked for etc.
                            I’m hoping my issue is a little more clear cut though:
                            1) Resp stopped paying CS
                            2) Applicant asked for CS
                            3) Resp refused
                            4) Repeat steps 2&3 x2
                            5) Applicant filed for CS
                            6) Resp has failed to provide any reason (medical or otherwise) to show why he was unable to pay CS

                            All in the matter of 6 months

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Update #2:

                              Offer to settle has been submitted to my ex. I decided to do two offers to give him options, although he will probably ignore both.

                              Offer one : Retroactive set at 15% of the amount I am asking for in my motion, CS moving forward based on the imputed amount I am asking for in my motion

                              Offer two: Retroactive set at 72% of the amount I am asking for in my motion (motion based on imputed income of $40,000, offer based on a minimum wage income of $30,000) and CS moving forward based on an income of $30,000

                              Motion scheduled for next week

                              Comment

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