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  • Section 7 Expenses - third party paying

    Hey everyone, I have a question regarding section 7 expenses. My ex has parents who are financially secure and can afford to pay for day camp and put the children in numerous actvities. I think its great for the children, but its becoming hard to pay child support and pay these extra expenses. If the grandparents are paying for these activities, how much do I contribute if anything?

  • #2
    From my understanding, the generosity from the grandparents doesn't change your child financial obligations. Your CS would be based on your income in the tables; your S7 expenses would be based on a ratio of your income relative to the ex's income. If the grandparents pitch-in, this doesn't change.

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    • #3
      if you consent then you have to pay.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
        if you consent then you have to pay.
        I'm glad that my kids are able to join in these activities, but the expenses on top of the child support is really hard to afford. What happens if I Didn't consent? Would I stand a chance using this arguement in court?

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        • #5
          I'm glad that my kids are able to join in these activities, but the expenses on top of the child support is really hard to afford. What happens if I Didn't consent? Would I stand a chance using this arguement in court?
          The reasonableness of s.7 expenses is taken into consideration, along with the history of expenses provided to the children and the financial means of the parties.

          If the extra expenses are causing you undue hardship then you have reasonable grounds to withhold consent.

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          • #6
            Thanks, but trying to prove your hardship to the courts always makes us look like we're dead beats. Will try to prove my case...

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            • #7
              For non medical section 7, I think you are only responsible for what you can afford (ie what you say yes to), and in proportion to the actual cost incurred.

              If the grandparents are paying for it, you are not responsible to reimburse your ex, as she did not pay for it.

              If they are saying that it is a gift to your ex and not for the kids activities necessarily, but you know otherwise, then they are playing games and I still would not contribute.

              The parents are supposed to share the cost of raising the kids. If someone else pays for an activity, it is to the benefit of both parents, not just the one.

              Greedy ex!

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              • #8
                I called the company and spoke with the person in finance, she confirmed it was the grandparent... Rrrrr! Thanks for the reply.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by billm View Post
                  The parents are supposed to share the cost of raising the kids. If someone else pays for an activity, it is to the benefit of both parents, not just the one.
                  What happens when a single mom and her child are being fully supported by the grandparents? Or mom re-marries and is a stay-at-home spouse? Mom isn't paying for anything, but I'm pretty sure that the NCP is still required to pay CS and S7.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
                    What happens when a single mom and her child are being fully supported by the grandparents? Or mom re-marries and is a stay-at-home spouse? Mom isn't paying for anything, but I'm pretty sure that the NCP is still required to pay CS and S7.
                    C/S will always be payable so long as the NCP has less than ~40% parenting time.

                    The s7, well there are ways for determine an amount payable by the other parent, simply by asking the courts to impute an income to them. They cannot have an income of $0.00. They have an obligation to financially support the children as well. Ask the courts to impute an income to the ex to what they are reasonably able to make in the local market, or failing that, full time min-wage.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                      C/S will always be payable so long as the NCP has less than ~40% parenting time.

                      The s7, well there are ways for determine an amount payable by the other parent, simply by asking the courts to impute an income to them. They cannot have an income of $0.00. They have an obligation to financially support the children as well. Ask the courts to impute an income to the ex to what they are reasonably able to make in the local market, or failing that, full time min-wage.
                      Agreed.

                      For section 7 it is always the ACTUAL cost incurred, after insurance and discounts etc are applied. So if someone else is paying that is not one of the parents, the cost is $0.

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                      • #12
                        That makes sense, thanks!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by billm View Post
                          Agreed.

                          For section 7 it is always the ACTUAL cost incurred, after insurance, TAX REBATES and discounts etc are applied. So if someone else is paying that is not one of the parents, the cost is $0.
                          Fixed your post

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                            C/S will always be payable so long as the NCP has less than ~40% parenting time.

                            The s7, well there are ways for determine an amount payable by the other parent, simply by asking the courts to impute an income to them. They cannot have an income of $0.00. They have an obligation to financially support the children as well. Ask the courts to impute an income to the ex to what they are reasonably able to make in the local market, or failing that, full time min-wage.
                            I agree, but using billm's point of view, the CP with imputed income and the NCP are off the hook for any S7 because the grandparents or new spouse paid for it. Using my example from earlier, a stay-at-home spouse could have her income imputed, but based on what I read here, it wouldn't matter because someone else paid the bill and both parents are off the hook.

                            I agree that a NCP shouldn't pay more than was actually paid for the S7 expense, nor should it be any higher than his/her determined portion, but if someone else from the CP's family is paying or helping out, then that shouldn't negate the NCP's S7 obligations. Who's to say that the Op's S7 contribution doesn't go back to the grandparents to help offset what they paid? Who's to say that they may allow their daughter to keep it as a gift?

                            In my opinion, the Op will go down a rabbit hole, if he refuses to contribute to the S7 that was paid for by the grandparents.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
                              I agree, but using billm's point of view, the CP with imputed income and the NCP are off the hook for any S7 because the grandparents or new spouse paid for it. Using my example from earlier, a stay-at-home spouse could have her income imputed, but based on what I read here, it wouldn't matter because someone else paid the bill and both parents are off the hook.

                              I agree that a NCP shouldn't pay more than was actually paid for the S7 expense, nor should it be any higher than his/her determined portion, but if someone else from the CP's family is paying or helping out, then that shouldn't negate the NCP's S7 obligations. Who's to say that the Op's S7 contribution doesn't go back to the grandparents to help offset what they paid? Who's to say that they may allow their daughter to keep it as a gift?

                              In my opinion, the Op will go down a rabbit hole, if he refuses to contribute to the S7 that was paid for by the grandparents.
                              There are many times my parents pay for things for my children (dentist is a great example) then when the insurance comes in I pay them back the full amount. Money is tight in my home just paying for the day to day so they help me out as they can, this has included paying for camp in the summers and I paid them back on an installment plan.

                              This has never affected my x as s7 has never really been an option for me unless I take him to court.

                              Comment

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