Universal Basic Income (UBI)

[Tayken]

Curious on some opinions on how UBI could impact child support if it ever became a reality.

Thoughts?

[rockscan]

Curious on some opinions on how UBI could impact child support if it ever became a reality.

Thoughts?

Will it be treated like welfare and not considered as income for cs purposes?

[Tayken]

Will it be treated like welfare and not considered as income for cs purposes?

Hard to say. I see lots of talk about UBI but, nothing about how things like Child Support get impacted.

If everyone has a core minimum income... Should CS be eliminated? What happens when the child turns 18 and then gets UBI themselves?!

Its all theory... I see UBI talks a lot these days and just pondering what it could look like.

[rockscan]

Hard to say. I see lots of talk about UBI but, nothing about how things like Child Support get impacted.

If everyone has a core minimum income... Should CS be eliminated? What happens when the child turns 18 and then gets UBI themselves?!

Its all theory... I see UBI talks a lot these days and just pondering what it could look like.

There is so much around it that elicits questions.

Considering that EI is income for support but welfare is not, that might be a first step to fix.

What amount would universal basic income be and would people be forced to work to supplement it. Would welfare be outlawed if UBI came into play…just a few of my questions.

I’m not for it at all. People who can work should. I have seen way too many people abuse the system and watched my husband have to pay ridiculous amounts of support while on EI (at 24g a year). Plus there are those who refuse to work. If they get UBI should spousal be paid too? Spousal is enforced for those who are on government assistance as they should be supporting their ex not the government.

Good discussion topic!!!

[undersc0re]

How would spousal support be done? Is it taken off the income and then child support applied to that?

[kate331]

This is an interesting subject. But I don't think it would impact CS, one parent doesn't work and lives off the UBI, the other parent receives it but works full-time, so therefore the higher earning parent pays support.

I personally think it will create a workforce shortage for minimum wage jobs, but I haven't done much research on it.

I would like to see ODSP rates raised for those truly disabled. And yes, we all know someone who is cheating the system. But I feel for the ones that are truly disabled and live in poverty. Most people I know on Assistance lie about partners living with them, to be able to keep their benefits and not have them clawed back.

I am very interested in what other members think about UBI.

[Janus]

I personally think it will create a workforce shortage for minimum wage jobs, but I haven't done much research on it.

That would be a feature of the system, not a flaw.

I would like to see ODSP rates raised for those truly disabled.

What kind of people get ODSP but are not "truly" disabled?

And yes, we all know someone who is cheating the system.

We all know somebody who we think is cheating the system... but generally we do not really know.

Most people I know on Assistance lie about partners living with them, to be able to keep their benefits and not have them clawed back.

An interesting analogy to spousal support. Why should you lose assistance because you are living with somebody?

[kate331]

How is creating a workforce shortage a feature?

I know people that "cheat" the system. Pisses me off, that it takes the focus and funds away from who truly need it. But not a battle I am willing to take on.

Fact, you can and do lose government funds, when you choose to have a partner, they claw back funding, and expect your partner to support you. As for the spousal support argument, I simply dont know enough about it to comment, I just know what I have learnt here.

[Janus]

How is creating a workforce shortage a feature?

One of the main concepts driving UBI is that people should not be forced to take minimum jobs just to survive. Right now, minimum wage employers know they can recruit employees since alternatives are unpleasant. (Welfare is not great). With UBI in place, employers unwilling to pay an attractive wage will not be able to recruit employees, and will consequently go out of business.

Will I have to pay more for my Big Mac? Probably. I think I read that labour represents about 20% of the cost for a Big Mac, so if UBI increases labour costs by 33% (eg. if McDonalds has to pay $20/hour to attract employees) then the cost of a Big Mac will increase by about 6.6%. On a $6 Big Mac, that represents a price increase of 36 cents. My numbers may be off since I didn't look them up, but I'm almost certainly in the ballpark.

Again, this is not a problem. One of the goals of UBI is to create a labour shortage so that wages can increase.

I know people that "cheat" the system. Pisses me off, that it takes the focus and funds away from who truly need it. But not a battle I am willing to take on.

I bet corporations and small business owners engage (quantatively) in much more cheating of the system than your small players. For example, my neighbor's brother last year got a $500,000 grant for his company that he mostly used on himself. (About $400,000 was upgrades he was planning on making anyway, so he spent an extra $100k or so.) That could have paid for a lot of UBI cheques.

Fact, you can and do lose government funds, when you choose to have a partner, they claw back funding, and expect your partner to support you.

I'm aware of that, I just do not believe that it is the right thing to do.

Why does it matter how much my spouse makes? How does the government know what kind of financial arrangement we have? Maybe he keeps all his money for himself?