Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Impute income with no experience

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Impute income with no experience

    Spent time checking on Canlii for similar cases but couldn’t find any.

    Ex is young, 30 years, educated (Bachelor’s degree and some diplomas) with no work experience since graduation 3 years ago because she wasn’t applying for jobs and gave birth to our child 2 years ago. Separation is approximately 2 years ago because of her lack of interest to get a job and she made it clear that she want to be a stay home mom at that time.

    Now she wants to go back to school for another Bachelor’s degree for 4years saying her passion has changed and her degree is irrelevant. She is asking for spousal support for 5 years from separation date and be reviewed by then. Only married for 1 year 5months, however I agree she is entitled to some support.

    Can income be imputed to such a person? At least minimum wage? Curious if it is a free ride for her until 5 years before it can be reviewed and income be imputed or spousal support ends. It feels unfair.

    I am pushing for no income in the first 2 years and income imputed in year 3 to 5 but the case judge seems to agree that no income for 5 years is reasonable and a motion would not be in my favour in any way.

    I want to get opinion from members.

  • #2
    How long were you living together?

    Spousal support is a big grey area:
    For a relationship that is less than 2 years old and a child that is 2 years old it is spousal support until the child goes to school full-time.

    The amount of spousal support will be on the low-end too.

    You are not her parent. She has a degree and college diplomas, she can work but it sounds like she hasn't worked a day in her life.
    There is absolutely zero reason why she is entitled to another 3 years of school. She can work at the very least part-time and take online courses for 6 months - 1 year from a college Or work full-time and do the same.

    What did you do to make the judge upset with you?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by pinkHouses View Post
      How long were you living together?

      Spousal support is a big grey area:
      For a relationship that is less than 2 years old and a child that is 2 years old it is spousal support until the child goes to school full-time.

      The amount of spousal support will be on the low-end too.

      You are not her parent. She has a degree and college diplomas, she can work but it sounds like she hasn't worked a day in her life.
      There is absolutely zero reason why she is entitled to another 3 years of school. She can work at the very least part-time and take online courses for 6 months - 1 year from a college Or work full-time and do the same.

      What did you do to make the judge upset with you?
      lived together for 18 months.

      That was my thought and the outcome of my research too. I don't mind the duration of 5years but not without some income impute for her. She can work but chose not to go for another degree; intentionally unemployed.

      Her argument is that her Bachelor's degree is not recognized in Canada (she studied outside of Canada) and she no longer want to practice what she studied because it won't earn her much. It's all lies because there is WES evaluation to show that are degree is recognized and acceptable in Canada. In fact, I studied in the same school and I am gainfully employed.

      I didn't do anything. The Judge simply said "she has no experience and she need education to be employable, she is also the primary care giver of your child, how do you expect her to study, work and attend to the needs of a 2 years old?"

      I am trying to think of possible outcome for impute of income before we meet next week for another case conference to set motion date as her lawyer is asking for motion

      Comment


      • #4
        You sound intelligent and logical but I think there may be a language barrier, a lawyer on at least LIMITED retainer will be worth it so your court documents and evidence are presented properly and are noticed by the judge:

        1. Your affidavit should have shown/proven that her degree was acceptable in Canada. Why didn't the judge accept this fact?

        2. As far as I know your ex is not entitled to not work. Your child is 2 years old and will go to daycare while they go to work.

        3. It sounds like you gave up custody (old term) and access to your child. The starting point is a 50/50 split for child caring and decision making. What happened there?

        4. Assuming you received education elsewhere because that is where you grew up. Again with the "I mean no offence" but the judge may have some vibes from your country of origin (and you). Where are you from?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by pinkHouses View Post
          You sound intelligent and logical but I think there may be a language barrier, a lawyer on at least LIMITED retainer will be worth it so your court documents and evidence are presented properly and are noticed by the judge: I have been doing that. and the lawyer was surprised that the judge things it is unreasonable to impute income for her.

          1. Your affidavit should have shown/proven that her degree was acceptable in Canada. Why didn't the judge accept this fact? I didn't include an affidavit to the case conference brief. We've submitted briefs for the next conference this week. Since I have the proof, I will include it if it goes to Motion or if the judge ask for another case conference.

          2. As far as I know your ex is not entitled to not work. Your child is 2 years old and will go to daycare while they go to work. Agreed! she has refused to discuss daycare options but I am pushing for it and making it clear

          3. It sounds like you gave up custody (old term) and access to your child. The starting point is a 50/50 split for child caring and decision making. What happened there? Nope, I have been fighting for access since day 1. I moved from 2hours once a week to 4hours to 8hours and not every other week Friday to Sunday. Hoping to get it increased to 50/50.

          4. Assuming you received education elsewhere because that is where you grew up. Again with the "I mean no offence" but the judge may have some vibes from your country of origin (and you). Where are you from? hmm...I wonder why the judge would we both grew up in African (Ghana) and I moved in 2018 and sponsored her to join me in 2019. We have lot of people from out country here in Canada and transitioned easily
          See the response above.

          Comment


          • #6
            The case conference is basically a business meeting, that judge will not preside over a trial. The judge gave their opinion based on the evidence, I would view it as them helping you: they are showing where you are weak.

            1. Others here will say something; I am not a lawyer, or a judge and others have a more experienced opinion than myself. Someone may have a different view or angle as to why.

            3. Keep pushing and working, normally it starts out as 50/50, after that it becomes an uphill battle to get past 60/40.

            4. Some cultures have a different view of a woman's position in society and a marriage; judges are not perfect and often women are treated differently in court then men. I lived my whole life in Canada (U.K. parents) and sometimes I wonder if my culture is the same as what the judge thinks is appropriate. You and I have a lawyer to help with the courts culture.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by pinkHouses View Post
              The case conference is basically a business meeting, that judge will not preside over a trial. The judge gave their opinion based on the evidence, I would view it as them helping you: they are showing where you are weak.

              1. Others here will say something; I am not a lawyer, or a judge and others have a more experienced opinion than myself. Someone may have a different view or angle as to why.

              3. Keep pushing and working, normally it starts out as 50/50, after that it becomes an uphill battle to get past 60/40.

              4. Some cultures have a different view of a woman's position in society and a marriage; judges are not perfect and often women are treated differently in court then men. I lived my whole life in Canada (U.K. parents) and sometimes I wonder if my culture is the same as what the judge thinks is appropriate. You and I have a lawyer to help with the courts culture.
              Thanks so much. I really appreciate the responses, hopefully I get more views or angle from others

              Comment


              • #8
                Did you sponsor her to come to Canada? Did she give up her career? Then spousal is very unlikely. You met while she was in school or just after and then she had a child.

                You would need to fight to impute an income to her but truly you are expected to pay child support.

                Comment


                • #9
                  In my experience, every judge said my ex should have an income imputed but they all left it for the trial judge to do. Full time minimum wage was given, providing her the option to re-school. That took 4 years and it made no difference. My cs went down but I paid more in ss to equal it out. I saw no benefit to the imputation until ss ended. Until you're in a shared parenting situation, you can impute but I'm not sure they'll be any benefit. Do what you can to get to 50% access asap and try for a lump sum buyout or specific end date to ss.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Solution View Post
                    I am pushing for no income in the first 2 years and income imputed in year 3 to 5 but the case judge seems to agree that no income for 5 years is reasonable and a motion would not be in my favour in any way.
                    Your marriage is so short... but you have a kid and she took time off to raise the kid.

                    I'm not too convinced that you owe much spousal support.

                    Also, why don't you have 50% custody of the kid?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      She took time off from not having a job?
                      Why can't he do that? Oh, yes....he does not have his child 50/50 or anywhere close to that.

                      From what I understand he has a court order right now that says he sees his child X number of hours per week. I too ask why and how does he dig himself out if he wants to.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pinkHouses View Post
                        Why can't he do that? Oh, yes....he does not have his child 50/50 or anywhere close to that.
                        I think people underestimate how little the courts care about you or fairness if you don't have the kids.

                        If you have less than 40%, you should expect to lose almost every ruling.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Normally there would be no ss. In this case, OP sponsored his ex to move to Canada.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If it is a given that he does not have to pay child support because he sponsored his wife (STB ex) to be here then he needs some case law to reassure him or a better lawyer?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks for the impute everyone. At case conference, a motion date was set for June this year. I am trying to decide if I should give in to their request of no income imputed for her for the next 5 years before we reassess.

                              One thing I try to do is remain truthful to myself and don't raise my hopes unnecessarily. I read a lot on this forum to get ideas before filing or responding to other party to avoid being unreasonable.


                              Reason I don't have 50/50 yet:
                              Similarly to some other members, charges were laid when I tried to discuss divorce. She immediately filed for sole custody and other items but I responded with Joint custody and 50/50 parenting. The pandemic delayed everything. Two motions, one was to start access on supervised basis just to prove I am a good parent. Child was 6months as at then and she keep making paranoia accusations like kidnapping or our child and murdering him to cut ties etc. Second motion was to drop supervised assess and increase to every other weekend but we settled on the morning of the motion and requested OCL involvement on parenting and decision making. OCL is yet to finalise their report in 2-3 months time but I am still focus on 50/50.

                              Charges are still pending.

                              Spousal support:
                              For sure I am contractually obligated to pay some support because I sponsored her. But quantum is the main issue. I seems to feel like her responsibility to also provide for herself doesn't matter and that hurts and is confusing too. I read all the basis of imputing income and I don't think it should be this difficult considering that there is proof but all I hear is that I am X_X because I sponsored an educated individual that doesn't want to work and because I sponsored her and she has a child for me, spousal support is guaranteed for the next 5 years and she doesn't have to do anything. The support amount is huge regardless of being at the low end mainly because of no income from her.

                              No issue on child support. I voluntarily pay it as it makes no sense to drag something as simple as that. This is close to $1k, imagine how material the spousal support would be!

                              I am an immigrant in Canada less than 5years ago, just trying to secure a better future and someone feels the right thing to do is collect support and do nothing. while some might say it's just for the next 5 years, it feels forever right now

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X