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  • I heard it said that no child should be brought to court to be questioned or testify. right on, The children should not be pressured to pick and chose between the parents. it's not fair to the kid. The problem is between the parents, not the kids and the parents are the ones working it out in court. Keep the kids out of it, for the love of God.

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    • Originally posted by Roni View Post
      I heard it said that no child should be brought to court to be questioned or testify. right on, The children should not be pressured to pick and chose between the parents. it's not fair to the kid. The problem is between the parents, not the kids and the parents are the ones working it out in court. Keep the kids out of it, for the love of God.
      Unfortunately some people here are throwing the kids right in the middle by presuming that the child has the ability to determine whether or not they wish to exercise their access. And when you have some toxic situations where Parent A has carried on a campaign of alienation against Parent B, there needs to some checks and balances (although I am not saying there is any alienation being carried on in this thread).

      The child is in the middle regardless. The child is either telling Parent A they don't want to go with Parent B, or they are telling the courts the exact same thing. And if you believe the child is old enough and mature enough to make such determination, then it also means the child should be old enough and mature enough to tell a judge the exact same thing.

      You can't have it both ways of believing the child is capable of making such an important determination, but not capable of telling a judge to allow the judge the ability to change the order.

      The remedy for situations like this lie solely in court. Any other attempt to work around court (unless the other parent is cooperative) could be deemed contempt. It is the same as if the NCP decided they wanted to go against the court order and stop paying C/S. They would be in trouble from various levels of the court and government agencies. Why? Because there is a court order for support and they cannot break it unilaterally. And because C/S is in the best interests of the child. And both of those tests also relate to access and should (but unfortunately are not often enough) be treated the same.

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      • Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
        The remedy for situations like this lie solely in court. Any other attempt to work around court (unless the other parent is cooperative) could be deemed contempt. It is the same as if the NCP decided they wanted to go against the court order and stop paying C/S. They would be in trouble from various levels of the court and government agencies. Why? Because there is a court order for support and they cannot break it unilaterally. And because C/S is in the best interests of the child. And both of those tests also relate to access and should (but unfortunately are not often enough) be treated the same.

        Very good answer HammerDad!

        Access is in the child's best interests. CS is in the child's best interests. The courts are forcing parents to pay their CS unless there is a change in court order and it should be the same for access. Yes, there are circumstances where there needs to be a change, that's why you file a motion.

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        • I have been reading this post for some time now and thought I would comment.

          First off there is no magical age, however,as the child gets into their teen years their wishes and desires will be heard and more than likely respected.

          One thing I do want to comment though. This "choice" is a terrible thing to put on a child. I really hope that kids are not being forced to "choose".

          If there is a court order than follow it. If you feel that strongly about your position and the kids desires to stop access or switch custody DO NOT just unilaterally make this choice on your own and go file a motion to make the needed changes.

          Do not leave this on your child to do. It is your job as a parent to look after their best interests and that does not stop at ANY age!

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          • Originally posted by mrsb View Post
            One thing I do want to comment though. This "choice" is a terrible thing to put on a child. I really hope that kids are not being forced to "choose".
            It's one thing if the child (teen) has said several times that they want a change and has good reasons. But you are totally right, the worst thing a parent could do would be to ask them to choose. Even if one parent is obviously a better choice, no kid should have to decide one over the other. Imagine the guilt they would have to live with and the fear that they had ruined the relationship with the other parent.

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            • Hi Billiechic,

              Agreed! I am actually going through this right now. My oldest (almost 14) has been having a terrible time with her father for the last couple years. I am constantly advocating on her behalf and will until I am no longer needed to. I encourange her to discuss her feelings with her father, that is all she can do and that is all I expect her to do.

              I just hope that by this thread nobody is attempting to thwart the relationship with the other parent out of anger and not taking the appropriate steps to remedy what the real problems are.

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              • My children are 13 and 11. My ex continues to deny our access even though I have stated I will pick them up and drop them off. My ex will only allow us to be together if we have a schedule. We had a schedule and she was not able to follow it. My children are allowed to visit grand parents, aunts & uncles and friends without a schedule. If I was to go to my parents when my children are visiting the children will not be allowed to visit them either. My children want to see me. It has been almost 10 months since we were together. What do I do?

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                • Where can I get information for my 13 year old and daughter and 11 year old son to read online. My children are told that the lawyer tells her mom what to do. They need to know that they have the ability to decide if they want to see me or not and if they do want too they need to be allowed. Where can I get information for my children. My children are being lied too.

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                  • Originally posted by mrsb View Post
                    One thing I do want to comment though. This "choice" is a terrible thing to put on a child. I really hope that kids are not being forced to "choose".
                    ...
                    Do not leave this on your child to do. It is your job as a parent to look after their best interests and that does not stop at ANY age!
                    I have argued this point with my ex. I have always wanted a schedule but she feels that the children (young teens) must choose if they want to have a sleepover at my place. I argue that although we should definitely take their opinion into account maybe it would be easier on them if they were expected to spend the odd weekend with me. Instead I end up asking them only to hear that they've arranged something with friends or have arranged some other activity so now is not the best time.
                    It's funny because my ex insists that she does not deter them from staying over with me in anyway but wouldn't not encouraging them to stay over be just as bad?

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                    • Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                      That is the criminal code. It doesn't relate to family law and court orders relating to access. Where a child is ordered by a judge to go with another parent, the child is obligated to go until the order has been altered by a judge. The person with custody of the child is also obligated to encourage and enforce the court order.

                      So yes, the child can make the determination to live where they want. But that statement is qualified with the determination must be made in court, to a judge, who will then rule on the facts presented. Failure to abide by a court order is contempt, notwithstanding if CCC provides that a child may choose their residence.
                      Actually, although it is CCoC, it is given just as much weight in a family court...fyi

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                      • Some parents are bad parents, some lawyers are shitty, and some judges are biased. Accept it, absorb it, and move on...

                        I am so tired of everyone on the forum bitching and whining, but not doing anything to change things. How many of you have signed the protest for Bill C422? How many of you have written to your MP, MPP, or legal aid clinic? How many of you have tried to be the change you want to see?

                        Until you put action behind your words by trying to change the system, quit bitching about the lawyers and the broken system and start thinking of productive ways to make the change.

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                        • My lawyer told me the courts begin to be reluctant to make any orders for children over 14. Why? Because it is difficult to enforce. If the child is dropped off at Mum's house and then walks out the door and heads to dad's house and refuses to comply... then what? It becomes a burden on the courts / police.

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                          • johnross, I have heard the same thing and it does make sense. The only real solution to any of this is I guess is to have an assessment done.

                            I am in a situation right now where my oldest is almost 14 and really resenting the time she spends with her father. My hope in the end is not to stop the visitations but perhaps improve them.

                            One thing parents perhaps in this situation need to do is sit back and take stock of what actually is going on. Sometimes it is not parental alienation but rather the on-going conflict that can damage a parent child relationship.

                            You can try to change laws, seek justice, sign petitions but the onus is on you as a parent to make changes and the only thing you have control over is yourself.

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                            • I was at my MP's and MPP's office and made an official written complaint about my situation, in detail. It is important to voice ourselves.

                              IPP, I love being Canadian and I love my Country but we tend to be a bit Passive Aggressive, love to complain but do nothing about it but complain.

                              I'm going to Trial at the end of the month/beginning of Feb...I'm excited but cautious. I have no worry about my son, who is 14, the law is the law. Some of the laws over lap other laws, he is 14 and if he chose to move in with his friends' parents he can do so and I cannot do anything about it. I trust that I am being the best father I can be and because of that I am completely comfortable he has no thought of moving.

                              Just be good parents and think of the children. Fight for change in the legal systems by being present and voicing for change with everyone.

                              ****
                              IPP, may need to ask you a couple questions out of this forum, maybe in another....regarding procedure of Trial Seating, any forms or anything I need to file or have filled out.

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                              • On a tangent but parallel front.

                                From guns to climate, MPs raised their profiles with own bills this year

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