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  • Child Custody and Access Arrangement

    Hi all,
    Love reading all the valuable insight to this forum. Great info.
    Spouse and I married for 8 years - two children - 7 year old daughter and 2 year old son. She is an “at home” self employed worker. She claims this was a part time job and she maintained the home and children (well so did I). She did not work much and is trying to claim $8 k a year (that’s another story for later). I am a continental shift worker and when I was home, took care of the children as well. I bathed, cooked, did homework, played, drove around etc. I coached my daughters soccer, volunteered at her school and dance etc. our son goes to daycare every Thursday and Friday because it gives us a break and we were going to use those days to have husband/wife outings until this bombshell. Needless to say, I tried to be in their lives as much as I could. Our separation was June. Two and a half months we have been sharing the children relatively equally with children being with her on days I work at her fathers house and them with me at the home on days I’m off. I have kept a journal. So it follows my continental schedule 2-2-3. In our letter to her lawyer, my lawyer was adamant on stating I didn’t agree to her removing the children from the home. Her lawyers letter response concerned money, and asking we propose a custody schedule. In the same letter her lawyer mentioned that she reported to him the current 2-2-3 agreement was working well to “smooth over” removing the children. My lawyer wants to deal with the children before anything else which I could not agree more...kids come first in all this. So we’ve proposed two proposals: follow the 2-2-3 because it works with my work and gives the children maximum contact with both mom and dad and it maintains status quo shared parenting or a week on week off with an overnight - I have gone to my work and accepted an accomadation to take all my Tuesdays of so my work no longer interferes.

    Questions guys and girls...

    1) I so desperately want some sort of 50/50 or close to it. I don’t want to be a visitor to my kids. I still want to be their daddy. What do you think of these proposals. Do I have my bases covered? She’s been allowing me to have them so she feels their safe with me, taken care of, supported. I’m financially stable. And I’ve covered my work.

    2) what potential excuses could she use ? All I can think is “I was the stay at home mom”. How much weight does that have.

    3). She’s gonna have to make an income now...how does that play in ..

    4). If she doesn’t accept, what do you guys think of me throwing in my work benefits for 4/5 years or until she gets divorced from me as incentive because I know she wants it.

    Problem is going to court is a crapshoot. I’ve heard of good stories and horror stories.

    Thanks all

    -J

  • #2
    Well the status quo is currently being followed so she would have to come up with a reason why it isn’t working.

    What did she do before she stayed at home and what could she do if she went back to work? Look up relevant wages and advise that you will seek to impute income to her.

    Comment


    • #3
      Someone more knowledgeable on sharing time with the kids will weigh in on the schedule.

      Have your lawyer prepare a severable offer to settle all matters. Place them in categories, e.g. Parenting Schedule, Equalization, other ancillary issues (real estate holdings etc). I know you want to deal with kids first...but strategically, sometimes it's good to put a comprehensive offer on the table first so that ex's show their cards pretty early on what's important to them (I mean- it's kids and/or money, right?). Your lawyer should be strategic and make sure you start low- e.g. throw in your work benefits for 1 year and see what they counter.

      From the sounds of it- there is no reason you shouldn't get joint legal custody and shared physical custody....don't settle for close to it. If you are an involved father, and can make accommodations- doesn't matter if she was a stay at home mom. One thing I think is helpful is to have a detail parenting plan. Who will be your backup childcare if you're not available. Where are you going to live, etc etc...

      Comment


      • #4
        The courts can be a crapshoot. But the more you load the dice the better. If you think you are prepared; your not. If she had a lawyer, she's already ahead of you.

        1.) in my case the caregiver thing didn't hold much weight, because it can't really be proven.

        Some good reading is lovingfather32's post on maximum principle, the post on OCL (forgot the poster)and Taken's post on "loa gives you wings".

        2) If you are in Ontario call the opp and get your report, call CAS and do the same. If she took them out of the house, then she will need to justify it to a judge. So you may be facing false allegations of DV or abuse.

        3) You will be looking on inputting income. Does she hold a degree? Is there a physical reason she can't work full time / part time? (Trust me you may suddenly see a doctors note that she can't work). If she says she works part time then it would be a much higher number than 8k.

        4) are you talking health benefits? It's not a bargaining tool, if the ask you will be ordered to throw it in until she gets her own.

        You want to focus your attention on proving your are father of the year and maximum contact is in there best interest.

        Get an affidavit from the daycare that says you drop them off, or from the coaching head. 3rd party affidavits showing you are involved are very good.

        I know I sound grim, but going to court is no a choice it's a very possible reality. The more you prepare the better off you will be. Your lawyer will only prepare your case, you are the one who puts the "meat" in it.

        Comment


        • #5
          You're on the right track. Keep focus on the child issues and resolve those first. Don't start opening random cans of warms you don't want to open.

          Maintain the same schedule and stay super nice to her. Don't do anything to piss her off.

          Sometimes, when things are going well and it's just a waiting game, our minds wonder and we ask if we should something. If you are not sure, the best thing is to take the "do nothing" approach. Sort of like when the OCL is conducting an assessment. You do nothing, or as a lawyer once said to me when mocking the ex for her unilateral denial of my access in the middle of an assessment.... "don't shake the ball!"... or as my own lawyer would always say "don't throw a monkey wrench in there..."

          Ironically manifesting from a discussion from another thread, here she can't argue she doesn't work and stays at home and should have the kids full time. There is a status quo here that takes priority. For as long as you don't shake the ball or throw in a monkey wrench inadvertently causing any material change in circumstances.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by je15 View Post
            So we’ve proposed two proposals: follow the 2-2-3 because it works with my work and gives the children maximum contact with both mom and dad and it maintains status quo shared parenting or a week on week off with an overnight
            You should look into the 2-2-5-5 schedule. In my opinion, it is by far the best 50% schedule. It reduces conflict and allows parents to schedule their life. It is also more stable as the kids go into their school years.

            2) what potential excuses could she use ? All I can think is “I was the stay at home mom”. How much weight does that have.
            More than it should. Document everything you do with the kids to show you were an involved parent. Don't rush to court so you can build up a status quo of time spent with them.

            3). She’s gonna have to make an income now...how does that play in ..
            What makes you think she is going to have to make an income? Spousal support is a thing.

            4). If she doesn’t accept, what do you guys think of me throwing in my work benefits for 4/5 years or until she gets divorced from me as incentive because I know she wants it.
            I would not even mention benefits. First of all, nothing stopping you from just getting a divorce once the agreement is signed. Secondly, if you offered that in the agreement, you would be responsible for buying replacement benefits for the next 5 years.

            And... it doesn't sound like much. Remember, this is not about money, this is about custody. You don't have to bribe her for 50%, you deserve 50% because that is what is best for the kids.


            Problem is going to court is a crapshoot. I’ve heard of good stories and horror stories.
            If you are too afraid of court, you will agree to a bad deal just to avoid court. It is best to avoid court, but always be prepared to go to court.

            Comment


            • #7
              Update

              So very useful info from all of you gang...really appreciate it.

              So I was served court papers yesterday - 3 weeks after retaining lawyers and 2 proposals for timesharing if children

              She has asked for sole custody and liberal and generous access on a schedule to be agreed by both parties.

              In her reasons - she’s mentions she’s been the primary caregiver since birth of both children, claims I leave my daughter with my mom on my days (which she goes for visits because my sister and niece (her aunt and cousin) are there and she enjoyed swimming, biking, playground and playing. Visits were 2-3 hours at the most and once weekly and often I attended as well . She visited grandma and her family while we were together.

              Also, she cites my brother who lives with my mom smokes marijuana (which he has a medicinal license for and never smokes in the house or in front of the children). And only one of my siblings “has a job”.

              She has nothing on me - no abuse, neglect, harm. I clothe them, feed them, love them. Etc.

              She’s asked for orders for normal stuff I’m willing to do anyways - CS, SS, etc.

              I will respond appropriately to her reasons. but what do you guys think now? She’s asked for legal costs as well.

              My lawyer is not worried and stated she will never get sole custody on those points alone. I still think I can get 50/50 because we’ve been following the 2-2-3. In her first lawyer letter to us, it states about the arrangement “she says this is working well”. We replied to formalize this arrangement status quo,etc with an alternative of week on and off with overnight mid week. It was best for kids, maximum contact both parents, etc. They replied back 2-2-3 is confusing for the kids now and said nothing about theweek arrangement. Lawyer says it’s been status quo and she’s abiding by it. “It’ll be hard to deviate from it now”.

              I have my support system ready, place to live, financially sound, no record etc.

              Thanks all.

              JE

              Comment


              • #8
                PS.
                What do I do if she up and changes our current arrangement ?

                Like I said previously, I have a journal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by je15 View Post
                  PS.
                  What do I do if she up and changes our current arrangement ?
                  Consider it to be an emergency. Get to court within days. If your lawyer is reluctant to do so, find a different lawyer.

                  If you wait a month to try and "work things out" it might be too late.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by je15 View Post
                    She has asked for sole custody and liberal and generous access on a schedule to be agreed by both parties.
                    I think you already know this, but don't agree to a second less than 50%.

                    I will respond appropriately to her reasons.
                    Don't overrespond. You don't have to counter every point.

                    "I disagree with most of your statements. Our current parenting plan is working well and I see no reason to deviate".

                    The end.

                    She’s asked for legal costs as well.
                    That's pretty standard. She has to win first, and that seems unlikely in your situation.

                    Lawyer says it’s been status quo and she’s abiding by it. “It’ll be hard to deviate from it now”.
                    I agree. As long as you don't do anything stupid, you should end up with 50%.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Janus View Post
                      Don't overrespond. You don't have to counter every point.
                      ^This.

                      My lawyer, after the first few introductory paragraphs of my affidavit, stated something along the lines "I disagree with the applicant's affidavit unless specifically here stated my agreement" - can't recall the exact wording. Was pretty clever.

                      Stick to joint custody and 50/50 access. Don't give her any ammunition. I would say 9/10 times you probably don't even have to respond/react to her emails/texts, pictures, or whatever she does. Give her the silent treatment and ignore her and focus on your own physical and emotional health. If she wants to talk and negotiate, she has your offer to settle and can offer one of her own.

                      Lay low and strategize with your lawyer, make consistent and repeated attempts to settle, and if necessary, litigate, hard..

                      Keep checking in as things come up. Always check with forums and lawyer before doing anything.

                      Take the "do nothing" approach here and sit tight. With the exception of she fooling around with your access.

                      Comment

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