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  • Spousal Support

    After 18 months of arguing, I finally got a judge to endorse (with my x's reluctanct) table child support amounts BUT the judge reduced the payment because of my x's claims for spousal support. We were married 4 years but only living together for 2 - he's WAY better off now than when we married making approx. 1/2 of what I do. Whatever, it's not a lot of money so I've just been sucking it up until we head to trial.

    Here's my question, x is now taking me to court to get a copy of my childs birth certificate claiming that he wants to set-up an RESP for him. For reason's I will not go into here, I am VERY relucatant to give him that information. But I'm wondering, if he has enough money left over to contribute to RESP, why is he claiming spousal support? Do I have a chance at this motion to fight the temporary order for spousal?

    BTW, I already have an RESP for the child and contribute to get the government grants.

    Interested in anyone's thoughts on the success of this.

  • #2
    Payment of support isn't contingent on the other party having $0. He should be in a position to have modest savings. If he choses to live on peanut butter sandwiches so that he can contribute to an RESP then that is none of your business. You may present his financial disclosure and yours and make any argument you want, whether you get anywhere depends on how extreme his budget is.

    As the child's parent, he has every right to a copy of the birth certificate. There should be no reason why you shouldn't each have an official certificate. There is no reason why you shouldn't comply with a reasonable request. If the request is unreasonable you must be able to show why with factual evidence.

    Your vague statement that you are reluctant for reasons you will not state here makes it impossible for us to say whether you have sufficient reason to withhold the birth certificate. If you think that he is a flight risk, then you need to show it, otherwise I can't really conceive of any other justification.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: SS - this is difficult. I don't believe he was ever entitled but I'll have to wait until court for that one (although if there weren't other issues, I would have paid out based on more than standard ie. 3 yrs of 4 year marriage). It's been unacceptable so far. He also makes money on the side - website travel business which isn't claimed for income tax purposes so I really have no proof of how much just that he probably does...Maybe I'll leave this until trial then...

      Agreed that under normal circumstances this is a right of the parents. I am reluctant because my x is a permanent immigrant with status in a non-Hague convention country. He's been looking for this peice of paper for quite some time and this is just the newest tactic to get it I believe. He's semi-threatened this when we first split and I believe it's to scare and possibly pursue abduction. He was abusive, threatened suicide and is currently charged with dangerous driving for veering towards my car with the child in the back seat. I'm pretty comfortable with my ethics on this one although I agree it's a crappy place to be.

      Comment


      • #4
        Simple, tell him your fears of his flight with the child. Then offer to go with him to set up the RESP, where you can retain possession of the birth certificate (though really, it is not yours to decide who should get it, even if you have fears).

        Contributing to RESP has NOTHING to do with entitlement to SS. He should be saving for post secondary education and this does not in any way indicate his is not entitled to SS (kinda worrisome that you would even think that....). Also if you both have an RESP, you need to share the government contributions (and their growth) when it comes time to decide how much each of you needs to contribute.

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        • #5
          After I read

          x is now taking me to court to get a copy of my childs birth certificate claiming that he wants to set-up an RESP for him. For reason's I will not go into here, I am VERY relucatant to give him that information.
          I did not want to say anything ... He has all rights to have it. He probably do not know but he can just order new one over the internet for $80 or so if he knows all answers for questions they will ask ...

          all that stuff about abduction - give me a brake. People who want to do it just do it and does not matter do they have BC or no.

          Let me ask you a question. If you so scared that child can be abducted what did you do to prevent it? did you put "red flag" in Passport Canada office or something?

          EDIT:
          Just checked in Canada it's called System Lookout List

          How do I add a child's name to the System Lookout List?


          A child under 16 can be added to the System Lookout List by contacting any Passport Canada office or Canadian government office abroad. You must provide the full names and birth dates of both parents and the child, as well as copies of any custody-related legal documents. The documentation must be received by Passport Canada within 90 days of your initial request to ensure the child's name remains on the System Lookout List.

          For more information please see:

          International Child Abductions: A Manual for Parents
          Passports issued in the name of children: Considerations for separation agreements and court orders
          For me it sound like my ex - I will not agree for overnight because I am afraid you take baby away...
          Last edited by WorkingDAD; 05-05-2011, 03:55 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by billm View Post
            Simple, tell him your fears of his flight with the child.
            Her fear is not a reason. BS is not a travel document . Child will need a passport. To apply for passport in case of separation and divorce is not so easy.

            Passports issued in the name of children: Considerations for separation agreements and court orders

            Comment


            • #7
              I was able to order my childrens official birth certifiates with out any issue what so ever, I suspect he may do the same. Quite certain neither parent has exclusive ownership over that. You had good advice about going with him to set up RESP giving you control over the document.

              Comment


              • #8
                Even knowing that guy can order his copy of BS you still think that good idea to
                going with him to set up RESP giving you control over the document.
                and to be honest I am not sure you need BS to setup RESP. I was under impression you need SIN. Have to check.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes, I think you only need the SIN for the child to open an RESP for them. Something my RESP company advised me when my ex and I separated was that you can have as many RESPs for a child as you want, but only the first contribution in a calendar year gets the federal grant money. So if you know your ex is also doing an RESP, you might want to make sure your contributions go in at the beginning of the year. That way you end up with control over the grant money. As a result of this advice, I opened my own RESP with only my name on it, and won't be making any further contributions to the joint one.

                  And I would think it would be nice to hear that some of your spousal support is being put into an RESP for your child. It's almost like you are just helping your child in another way. I'd much rather my ex was spending spousal support on an RESP than frittering it away frivolously.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ah I'm sure we all say this when reading other's posts but seriously, you don't know my x. I believe it's all smoke and mirrors and don't believe he'll be around long enough to contribute to anything. He has vehemently opposed paying anything in child support, refuses to provide health coverage which is free for him from work, threatens, stalks and harrasses me. I have tried to get a passport for my child but they've denied me despite court order that my x cannot apply for one. I'm trying to get on the lookout list but many things taking my time away from this (and first time around they sent me away to call in just to then be told I've gotta go back to the passport office). My x can get my child on his countries passport - they do not have separate passports - this is one of my worries. I will look into it further if you need BC for RESP cause if it's just SIN - no problem.

                    Okay about SS - cause it just burns me up that post marriage, I'm doing worse career and financial wise and he's doing WAY better. Gotta let it go but keeps peeping up on me. I'll do better to control this emotion - thanks for the reality check.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mominneed View Post
                      Ah I'm sure we all say this when reading other's posts but seriously, you don't know my x. I believe it's all smoke and mirrors and don't believe he'll be around long enough to contribute to anything. He has vehemently opposed paying anything in child support, refuses to provide health coverage which is free for him from work, threatens, stalks and harrasses me. I have tried to get a passport for my child but they've denied me despite court order that my x cannot apply for one. I'm trying to get on the lookout list but many things taking my time away from this (and first time around they sent me away to call in just to then be told I've gotta go back to the passport office). My x can get my child on his countries passport - they do not have separate passports - this is one of my worries. I will look into it further if you need BC for RESP cause if it's just SIN - no problem.

                      Okay about SS - cause it just burns me up that post marriage, I'm doing worse career and financial wise and he's doing WAY better. Gotta let it go but keeps peeping up on me. I'll do better to control this emotion - thanks for the reality check.
                      I can see it burns you but its also burns many thousands of men for many decades...now it would appear that for ss anyway things are turning àround...maybe of enough women complain about the system then maybe they'll revamp the whole ss system...make it more of a need rather than an entitlement.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mominneed View Post
                        Ah I'm sure we all say this when reading other's posts but seriously, you don't know my x. I believe it's all smoke and mirrors and don't believe he'll be around long enough to contribute to anything. He has vehemently opposed paying anything in child support, refuses to provide health coverage which is free for him from work, threatens, stalks and harrasses me. I have tried to get a passport for my child but they've denied me despite court order that my x cannot apply for one. I'm trying to get on the lookout list but many things taking my time away from this (and first time around they sent me away to call in just to then be told I've gotta go back to the passport office). My x can get my child on his countries passport - they do not have separate passports - this is one of my worries. I will look into it further if you need BC for RESP cause if it's just SIN - no problem.

                        Okay about SS - cause it just burns me up that post marriage, I'm doing worse career and financial wise and he's doing WAY better. Gotta let it go but keeps peeping up on me. I'll do better to control this emotion - thanks for the reality check.
                        I will repeat one more time for you he can order BS without you even know it
                        Court order which saying that he can not apply for passport does not mean that you can

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Difficult to say without knowing the financials -- but generally SS is awarded when there is need and the other spouse has means. SS is more or less a redistribution of family income. There really isn't any new money. Some things to your favour to defend the claim: * Short term relationship; * SS not really established in the interim, but rather a reduced CS amount; (Depends on the wording of Interim Order/Agreement) * Impute a higher income to the individual to diminish their need -- strategy;

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks to all for your responses - I think I've figured out how to get the RESP opened now without the BC but I do realize it's possibly he could get one without me but where would his fun be in that? It wouldn't scare me if I didn't know about it right?

                            Anyway, just wanted to say I appreciate all the feed back - the good, the bad and even the ugly. Great to have so many different opinions and it's certainly a reality check at times! So hard not to take your own case so personally...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If SS is an issue, and you suspect other income, hit him with a disclosure request about the revenue source. Give him the 21 days and then go for an order if he doesn't respond - the motion for disclosure order would need an affidavit that points to provable grounds of your suspicions. There are plenty of case laws reflecting court's opinions where the ex spouse appears to be hiding income - the court does not approve and will support reasonable suspicions to a degree.


                              I don't think the court would prevent releasing a BC. If this is a concern, you should take a pro-active stance and file a motion to be heard same day which addresses your belief in abduction, etc but you have to support it with a strong affidavit of facts. You need to research possible orders that are in the scope of Family Court which can prevent abduction.

                              Comment

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